Kingdom Come: Deliverance Page 3

  • DUFFMAN5 10 Feb 2018 12:12:32 22,817 posts
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    On the plus side you chaps are getting days early. Glass half full and all that :)
  • Darren 10 Feb 2018 12:18:57 9,539 posts
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    True but I still hate it when you get a console game and you have to wait hours before you can play it on Xbox One because it has to download an enormous patch first. At least on the PS4 it gives you the option of playing the game without the patch if you want to try it while you wait for it to download; I really wish Microsoft would allow that. It's not going to change the situation right now though, admittedly!
  • Rodderz 10 Feb 2018 12:20:12 2,983 posts
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    @Darren

    From what I've been reading regarding this massive patch, it's pretty essential in improving many aspects of the game from how well it runs to encounters and balancing of combat/rpg leveling etc.

    I did a Google search and found this from a community bloke from the publisher Deep Silver on resetera:

    WillJPowers said:
    So, let me stop the rumor mill dead in its tracks before everyone continues jumping to conclusions. The way that I've been told that the engine works, is it takes the entire game and separates the PKG or ISO into 2GB archives. If during a patch you so much as alter a 1KB text file within any of these 2GB archives, then you need to reupload the ENTIRE 2GB portion. That beings said, this is a major patch that improves overarching mechanics throughout the game, so it touches almost all of these 2GB archives in the entire game build. Essentially you are having to redownload the game to replace the existing files. It shouldn't stack them and inflate on your harddrive, but rather replace the previously downloaded build files.
  • Rodderz 10 Feb 2018 12:24:27 2,983 posts
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    Darren wrote:
    At least on the PS4 it gives you the option of playing the game without the patch if you want to try it while you wait for it to download; I really wish Microsoft would allow that. It's not going to change the situation right now though, admittedly!
    On this point, if you are reading this and do happen to have got the PS4 version early, I've read some people suggesting that saves in the un-patched game won't work with the patched version! So try it by all means, but don't go mad on how much you play before you patch to avoid disappointment!
  • Darren 10 Feb 2018 12:32:19 9,539 posts
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    Rodderz wrote:
    @Darren

    From what I've been reading regarding this massive patch, it's pretty essential in improving many aspects of the game from how well it runs to encounters and balancing of combat/rpg leveling etc.

    I did a Google search and found this from a community bloke from the publisher Deep Silver on resetera:

    WillJPowers said:
    So, let me stop the rumor mill dead in its tracks before everyone continues jumping to conclusions. The way that I've been told that the engine works, is it takes the entire game and separates the PKG or ISO into 2GB archives. If during a patch you so much as alter a 1KB text file within any of these 2GB archives, then you need to reupload the ENTIRE 2GB portion. That beings said, this is a major patch that improves overarching mechanics throughout the game, so it touches almost all of these 2GB archives in the entire game build. Essentially you are having to redownload the game to replace the existing files. It shouldn't stack them and inflate on your harddrive, but rather replace the previously downloaded build files.
    Thanks for the info.

    That's pretty poor planning then and essentially means all patches for this game are going to be much larger than they need to be be. Hopefully, it won't
    mean that all patches will be 22 GB in size though. I have an internet connection that pretty much grinds to a halt anytime anything is downloading on my Xbox One X, PS4 Pro or PC so it's not ideal to have large patches. A fibre internet connection is at least a year away for me, possibly more, due to my crappy ISP (I live in Hull where we are at the mercy of the monopolistic Karoo).
  • ChiefGB 10 Feb 2018 13:18:58 8,303 posts
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    This means any patch for this game will likely be the same then, that can't be smart programming, but I guess time will tell.
  • elvenscroll 10 Feb 2018 13:39:18 1,668 posts
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    So first impressions then. The voice acting is fucking hilariously bad and the script isn't much better.

    The environments and lighting are very nice indeed. It's not the best looking game ever but its presentable enough. Not been in any scraps yet so won't comment on the frame rate.

    Sat at the table in a house and tried to pick up an apple. "You cannot pick this up while sitting". Very odd.

    Strangely it's the first time I've ever heard the console (one X) make a noise when playing a game The fan noise is really loud.
  • StaffyDog 10 Feb 2018 13:47:12 1,504 posts
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    Apparently on ps4 the game is nearer 50gb including the massive day one patch. Seems a bit fishy as to why the patch is bigger than the actual game that they have been working on this last 10 years. Why is it not already on disc?

    Edited by StaffyDog at 13:47:45 10-02-2018
  • mothercruncher 10 Feb 2018 13:52:59 14,882 posts
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    It has 6/10 written all over each of those 2Gb chunks sadly.
  • ZuluHero 10 Feb 2018 14:35:40 6,360 posts
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    You never know, that text file might have 9/10 material on it ;)
  • elvenscroll 10 Feb 2018 14:58:18 1,668 posts
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    So it turns out that getting killed repeatedly is no fun. Not sure this is for me.

    Edit: I'm wondering if I'm supposed to leg it instead. I think i'll try again later.

    Edited by elvenscroll at 15:07:36 10-02-2018
  • StaffyDog 10 Feb 2018 15:18:41 1,504 posts
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    That youtuber ESO playing this has not shut up how good it is and he says he is not affiliated with the game?
  • JamboWayOh 10 Feb 2018 15:21:34 6,743 posts
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    This is why I don't really buy the whole 'people are on YouTube are one of us, they're nothing like the corrupt games media' bullshit. That patch system sounds absolutely fucking awful.

    Edited by JamboWayOh at 15:22:18 10-02-2018
  • mothercruncher 10 Feb 2018 15:33:11 14,882 posts
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    Yeah, anyone on YouTube with any sort of sizeable audience is monetised up the wazoo and therefore as influenced by serving that as any more traditional journo types.
  • BigOrkWaaagh 10 Feb 2018 15:37:54 7,514 posts
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    mothercruncher wrote:
    Yeah, anyone on YouTube with any sort of sizeable audience is monetised up the wazoo and therefore as influenced by serving that as any more traditional journo types.
    100% fact.
  • DrStrangelove 10 Feb 2018 16:07:53 12,518 posts
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    Darren wrote:
    I got the Xbox One version this morning (for my X)
    Are you trying to get her back?
  • Darren 11 Feb 2018 10:12:49 9,539 posts
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    Well I played about 5 or 6 hours of this game on my Xbox One X once the 21.75 GB Day One update a.k.a. actual game install (since nothing but 162 MB is installed from the disc) and my conclusion is that this is a good game overall but not without some issues.

    For one, the game is stable but the framerate is certainly not a consistent 30 fps on console. There is very noticeable judder when panning the camera and the game goes from feeling smooth indoors, where there's obvious less to draw, to being a bit jerky outdoors. It's not unplayable but if you're sensitive to framerate variance then you will definitely notice it. There are also graphical glitches; I saw what looked like black outlines flickering around buildings a few times and some janky weirdness with camera angles in a few of the cutscenes.

    Otherwise, visually the game is pleasant rather than stunning. going for a more realistic look to the world such that buildings and the countryside tend to look samey because they are all in the same locale. Character models are acceptable; some look quite good, especially in the cutscenes, but others can look alarmingly last generation, not helped by some poor facial animations and that classic "dead eyed" look. It's leagues ahead of, say, Skyrim but not quite up to the benchmark standard set by The Witcher 3 IMO. Once I got used to that though, then I started to appreciate the attention to detail elsewhere; you have a physical body in this game, you see your hand closing/opening doors (and as far as I am aware they only open/close one way unlike many other games that have doors that open in *and* out!), when picking up items in first person (collecting plants is shown third-person for some reason) and so on. There's a real sense of being the person you are playing and I really like that. Of course, it's not without hiccups such as occasional clipping but it's certainly a cut above other first-person games IMO. Impressive.

    Combat is interesting. There's an attempt to make the fighting more realistic than other RPGs and it works well for the most part, relying on stamina and strength so you cannot just keep repeatedly stabbing buttons to win. Fighting with your fists also feels very different to using a sword, as you would expect, and it works well in first-person. I did have a bow but couldn't work out how to actually fire it I'm embarrassed to say! Everything you do in the game, increases some stat of other; speaking to people in a positive way increases the Speech ability, collecting plants increases the Herbalist ability, fighting increases Strength and so on. Pretty much like how a Bethesda Elder Scrolls games works.

    The first few hours of the game have a lot of cutscenes but thankfully the story and writing is good and the voice acting mostly decent with some characters being better than others but that's par for the course in any modern RPG. The only voices I found jarring where the American accents but to be fair even English ones are really out of place since this is set in mainland Europe, in the kingdom of Bohemia, not the England anyway. The numerous cutscenes are well done apart from the odd camera hiccup (as mentioned) and the dialogue mostly well-written. The opening section has a set number of quests that need to be done, which introduce you to the game mechanics, but the choice of how to do them is surprisingly varied. For example, I watched a walkthrough while the game was installing and I played it in a totally different way to that YouTuber (ESO). Characters react to what you've done, how you look (for example commenting on if you are dirty from a fight!) and you get different dialogue choices and things you can do depending on the progress of the quests. You also need to eat and sleep. Food you collect can apparently go off although I haven't played that long to come across it. You can get dirty and there are places you can bathe! I washed myself in a trough for example but was told that I'd need to take a bath to get fully cleaned!

    Of course, the opening section is set within a small area and eventually leads to a pre-set situation that takes you to the next part of the game. This section I had issues with as it is basically (without wanting to spoil it too much) where you have to get a horse and then ride to the next town. This section was immensely frustrating because you are being pursued and the horse has stamina which eventually runs out. You cannot just go anywhere either, you have to go to this specific town and, obviously, being new to the game I had absolutely no idea where that actually was. If you slow down, which happens because the length of the ride is longer than the horse has stamina for, then you get shot and can die here. It took me five attempts to complete this, not helped by the fact that the game auto-saves at a point before you reach the horse so you have to repeat lengthy sections each time. You can save manually here though before the chase but that was something I only found out after dying several times. I found this section very poorly executed and annoying to be honest because it is forced on the player and there is no way to avoid it. There is no choice in how you can tackle it; you cannot fight the pursuers, you cannot take a different route, you have to stick to this one route and hope that you reach the cutscene trigger point to the next town before you get killed. Utterly horrid IMO.

    After a brief section in this new area (which you can explore more if you want) and several more lengthy cutscenes, you then head to a certain location and the game's cinematic opening credits appear (yes, five hours into the game!). After that you seem to be granted more freedom from this point on to explore and do quests. There's a lot to like about this game; the attention to historical detail is really impressive (with a HUGE Codex section that constantly adds new things as you come across them), the story and cutscenes are very good and the focus on making the game more realistic makes it stand out from Oblivion/Skyrim which it otherwise resembles in many ways (minus their magic/fantasy elements). The combat is interesting so far, I've not played enough to properly comment on whether it's good or bad overall, plus the game has options to avoid combat if you choose to play it that way. In fact, early on in the game a character specifically mentions talking your way out of situations rather than fighting.

    I think the game shows a lot of potential from what I've played so far. It's not perfect, the game was made with a $5 million budget, I believe, so there are plenty of rough edges to be seen in every aspect of the game; NPCs can get stuck on scenery, they can clip through each other and the framerate isn't great but the ambition on show is very commendable and it's definitely a cut above "low-budget" RPG fare like, say, ELEX and the Risen franchise. The game world, for the most part, feels like a real place and it's easy to get immersed in it, something that is essential for any good RPG in my experience. There are some oddities though, perhaps as a result of trying to make the game more realistic (yes, that word again) and that it that there is surprisingly little loot that can be picked up apart from food. There are lots of chests but almost all of them are locked, requiring lockpicks and a mini-game to open. I got a lockpick at one point but could not work out how to use it (duh!) so I suspect the contents of most of those chests is going to be out of reach until I figure that out. Dead guards can be looted for armour and weapons but most dead NPCs seem to have two items, usually food of some kind. Most barrels cannot be looted and I've yet to come across any money from robbing houses or chests. Some people may welcome that though; sometimes there's a tendency to have too much loot to collect in games but here in seems too much the other way. Six hours in and I still had no real money for example (there is a bartering system however that allows you to sell stuff against bought ones).

    The one thing that stands out in this game above all other RPGs I've played is how much the developers have tried to make everything in the game world realistic in some way while still allowing for role-playing elements. This may not be to everyone's liking, some may find the game dull because of the focus on realism and historical accuracy, but I am finding it very interesting so far.
  • drhcnip 11 Feb 2018 10:25:42 5,995 posts
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    thanks for the detailed write-up!

    wavering over this, even if it is 1st person, as watched a few videos and there's something intriguing about it - need to know more about the combat though as, if it's too challenging, that may put me off...

    currently sat at a sub-20 purchase for me, i think...

    Edited by drhcnip at 10:26:04 11-02-2018
  • DUFFMAN5 11 Feb 2018 11:12:31 22,817 posts
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    @Darren
    Nice one, very easy to read. I think I'm probably 70/30 day one, still not totally convinced but better there.
  • Rodderz 11 Feb 2018 12:57:52 2,983 posts
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    @Darren

    I'll echo drhcnip and Duff in saying thanks for taking the time to give us the detailed write up. I think I'll be keeping my pre-order, as I like the ambition on display even if its by no means perfect.

    As someone succinctly put it a page or two back, KC: D is more akin to Warhorse's 'Witcher 1' moment, rather than Witcher 2 or 3, with the potential on display for this series to be a much bigger and better game a sequel or two down the line. KC: D is likely still something worth playing in its own right, ropey bits and all, so I'm looking forward to getting stuck in.

    Edited by Rodderz at 12:58:20 11-02-2018
  • elvenscroll 11 Feb 2018 16:36:42 1,668 posts
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    Yeah, I'm not enjoying this at all. The bit Darren described above is just atrocious. The horse handles like shit and the whole thing is just poorly explained.

    I'll trade it back in while it's still worth a few quid I think.
  • JamboWayOh 11 Feb 2018 17:09:51 6,743 posts
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    Is this a case of a developer confusing realism for fun but not having the funds/talent to actually make sure that there is compent gameplay that complements the realism?
  • drhcnip 11 Feb 2018 19:14:58 5,995 posts
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    elvenscroll wrote:
    Yeah, I'm not enjoying this at all. The bit Darren described above is just atrocious. The horse handles like shit and the whole thing is just poorly explained.

    I'll trade it back in while it's still worth a few quid I think.
    one for the bargain bin, then....
  • DUFFMAN5 11 Feb 2018 19:20:48 22,817 posts
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    @drhcnip
    Maybe now is THE time I actually play Skyrim ;)
  • drhcnip 11 Feb 2018 19:49:49 5,995 posts
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    @DUFFMAN5

    now, come on, don't get excitable...;)

    (though i'm half-tempted to pick it back up again...)

    'tis a shame but can't say it wasn't expected...will keep an eye on it to pick up cheap as i like the realistic historical vibe of it...
  • Rodderz 12 Feb 2018 09:07:06 2,983 posts
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    Right, after reading a lot of player impressions yesterday of those who got this early, I think I will row back on my getting this now. The general impression I got from quite a few different people was that whilst there's some decent aspects to the game and the setting is authentic, the game needs a good few tweaks and patches to iron out some gameplay aspects and in some instances, major bugs causing things like game crashes, so I don't therefore fancy picking this up at this early stage.

    I still want to get this as I think there's the foundation of a good game in there, but I'll wait until further down the road for the devs to have gathered a decent amount of player feedback as to what works and what doesn't and which aspects need altering, changing or fixing before I buy it. This could potentially be another NMS and hasn't been helped by constant comparisons to Skyrim all the bloody time, so I'm going to take the cautious approach as this might well be a much better, more enjoyable experience a few months and a few patches from now.

    So back into the backlog I go instead! I think I'll play Doom next as it's currently occupying 77gb of my PS4 harddrive space, so time to get that out of the way.
  • Darren 12 Feb 2018 13:11:13 9,539 posts
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    I've played about 8/9 hours of this game now so I'm getting a good feel for the mechanics, granted I have been actively trying to avoid combat where possible. Incidentally, I did not get a horse of my own until some 7.5/8 hours into the game and the game doesn't allow you to steal one either except where the story calls for it. Stealing is really not encouraged in this game; you certainly can steal things but guards actually search you when you enter towns and will confiscate any stolen goods (I'm not sure how they know which are stolen and which aren't though - maybe they've been taking a peak at the player inventory which marks any stolen goods!!!).

    As I mentioned yesterday, the game really does try to be more realistic than other RPGs such that even loitering too long in someone's home will have them running out to fetch guards. Guards seem to remember you as well; you can be wandering around and a guard will stop you. All the shops I've visited in the four towns I've been to so far have had a guard in them (not sure how historically accurate that is though...). I still have no money; in fact, the game states that I have 1.7 G. Any armour and weapons I've got have been from quests and what I have stolen has long since been taken off me (had I known it would be taken by guards then I would have stashed it somewhere).

    I like the game although the quests so far lack the excitement of something like The Witcher 3 or Skyrim due to the lack of monsters or fantasy elements. At the moment the story is interesting enough to keep me playing and I'm actually intrigued to see what quests the game will offer going forward with the game being based on a real historical location and being grounded in reality. Despite it's similarity at first glance to Skyrim/Oblivion in first-person, the game otherwise feels and plays like no other RPG, borrowing from survival games, and that in book is reason to recommend it if you fancy something a bit out of the ordinary.

    It definitely needs some refinement, especially in the framerate on Xbox One X, but in all the time I've played it I haven't come across any major bugs (my horse got stuck at one point but I fixed it by dismounting and whistling for it) and the game hasn't crashed either.

    Edited by Darren at 13:12:22 12-02-2018
  • Darren 12 Feb 2018 13:21:40 9,539 posts
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    P.S. One thing I neglected to mention was the map. I'm sorry but it is awful. It looks beautiful when you see it on screen but in practice the lack of a zoom option and the size of the icons make it near impossible to read it properly. This has resulted in me struggling to find where I am supposed to be going, for example, one quest sent me to the town's Baliff for employment but it took me about 20 minutes to actually find the location because the map made it frustrating to work out exactly where it was. I also struggled with another quest because of this as well.

    Fast Travel is also odd in that you have to wait while the game shows - Raider of the Lost Ark style - your little avatar moving slowly along the highlighted path to your selected destination. I presume it is done this way because you can find things en route or even be attacked which then takes you back to the game. The only problem with this is that you cannot just go from town to town quickly over large distances (at least not on foot anyway) as you will invariably be stopped by bandits. I was and I was killed which meant replaying the game from the last checkpoint because the game has no manual save (it saves at numerous points during quests and you can also save by sleeping but that requires you actually find a bed or somewhere to sleep first).

    By the way, Henry cannot read when you start the game so sign posts appear as gibberish until you find someone who can teach him to read! Again, this is another attempt at making the game realistic since Henry's background would not have included schooling!
  • BigOrkWaaagh 12 Feb 2018 13:24:02 7,514 posts
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    It sounds like the game tries to answer all the 'why don't they' questions people have always half-seriously asked about games

    Why don't people get upset when I go in their house?
    Why doesn't the food in my bag go off?
    Why can I get caught by guards, hide in a bush, and then just amble past them 5 seconds later?

    All of which can be answered with "because the game has to be fun"

    Edited by BigOrkWaaagh at 13:36:41 12-02-2018
  • Darren 12 Feb 2018 13:24:49 9,539 posts
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    P.P.S. The game allows you to wait but like the Fast Travel system, it takes just that *little* bit too long. Here it shows a rotating 24 hour wheel that rotates slow to the last hour then slows right down for the last 59 minutes. I'm not sure what the reasoning is for not making this faster but I personally found the waiting to be a chore. By the way, Sleeping uses the same system and you *have* to sleep otherwise you run out of energy (the game has a cool way of showing when you are getting tired as well).
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