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With 3G now up and running all the networks are now, or soon will be offering full MP3 music downloads straight to your phone. Now, I may be wrong, but if I was Apple, I’d be a little concerned about this. See, wonderful as the ipod is, the fact that you need to go and spend realistically at least £400 to get a PC/Mac to work it with makes it quite an expensive option, and then to really use it properly you need an internet connection on top of that. With phones however, all the technology you need is already there, plus, you can download your new tunes wherever you are, not just when you are sitting in front of your PC. I know for the meantime ipods or MP3 players in general will still have the cool factor, but ultimately I can’t really see how they can compete with this. Even if they start incorporating Wi-Fi into ipods, which I’m sure they will, you still have to find a hotspot, and then there’s the whole charging issue also. It is far simpler to have all of your music on your phone. With all the new GPS security that is coming in, it will be much safer than carrying an ipod around, and with them combining with camera and PDAs, it really feels like the “one device” that we’ve been promised for so long is just around the corner. Thoughts? |
Music Downloads for your Mobile to Spell the End for ipods?
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AnotherMartin 6,229 posts
Seen 11 years ago
Registered 20 years agoSony seem to think so as they've just annouced a 'Walkman' branded line of SonyEricsson phones. Seem to be one of there big pushes for '05/'06. Lot's of talk abotu phones with big in built memory and even HDDs.
link.
Edited by AnotherMartin at 16:45:40 02-03-2005 -
GrandTheftApu 6,117 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 18 years agoSo can I download for free all the thousands of tracks I already own?
/sees hole in plan -
ssuellid 19,142 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 20 years agokalel wrote:
With all the new GPS security that is coming in, it will be much safer than carrying an ipod around,
? what GPS security? -
kalel wrote:
With 3G now up and running all the networks are now, or soon will be offering full MP3 music downloads straight to your phone. Now, I may be wrong, but if I was Apple, I’d be a little concerned about this. See, wonderful as the ipod is, the fact that you need to go and spend realistically at least £400 to get a PC/Mac to work it with makes it quite an expensive option, and then to really use it properly you need an internet connection on top of that.
With phones however, all the technology you need is already there, plus, you can download your new tunes wherever you are, not just when you are sitting in front of your PC.
I know for the meantime ipods or MP3 players in general will still have the cool factor, but ultimately I can’t really see how they can compete with this. Even if they start incorporating Wi-Fi into ipods, which I’m sure they will, you still have to find a hotspot, and then there’s the whole charging issue also. It is far simpler to have all of your music on your phone. With all the new GPS security that is coming in, it will be much safer than carrying an ipod around, and with them combining with camera and PDAs, it really feels like the “one device” that we’ve been promised for so long is just around the corner.
Thoughts?
Can't store 10k tunes on your mobile (4gb is the bigest atm right?)
Can't rip you CD collection to your mobile without a PC/Mac (just lke the ipod).
Can't burn to CD like you can with a PC and itunes.
How much (total, including the mobile phone's bandwidth) does it cost to buy a song?
How long does it take to download a song?
What quality is the sound generated from a mobile?
What quality (bitrate) is the music you get from a mobile phone company?
Edit: Also, Itunes is going on (all?) motorola phones right? Link
Edited by Djini at 16:46:38 02-03-2005 -
GrandTheftApu wrote:
So can I download for free all the thousands of tracks I already own?
/sees hole in plan
I should point out that you can use your phone like an ipod, and just put your already existing MP3s onto it also. -
Djini wrote:
Can't store 10k tunes on your mobile (4gb is the bigest atm right?)
Can't rip you CD collection to your mobile without a PC/Mac (just lke the ipod).
Can't burn to CD like you can with a PC and itunes.
How much (total, including the mobile phone's bandwidth) does it cost to buy a song?
How long does it take to download a song?
What quality is the sound generated from a mobile?
What quality (bitrate) is the music you get from a mobile phone company?
Edit: Also, Itunes is going on (all?) motorola phones right? Link
Edited by Djini at 16:46:38 02-03-2005
OK, decent questions.
This is all a fair way off yet. We're not even sure what the bitrate will be on full music downloads yet, so I can't answer that question. Also, I believe that itunes is orange only; I definitely know that T-Mobile don't offer that.
The storage thing will change. I have no doubt that they will be offereing 20GB "music phones" in the very near future. Again, early days.
You will be able to burn the tunes you buy to CDs. Again, details still not set, but everything you download to your phone will also be included on your PC if you have one, and can be burned.
Cost and length of download time will be very competitive with itunes.
Sound from a mobile is poor (again, at the moment) but with headphones or separate speakers, again will be very competitive with an ipod (which isn't actually that great sounding).
Look, as I say it's all about 6 months to a year away realistically, but when it comes it will be very similar to the ipod experience, except you can download straight to your device. Again, how can Apple compete? -
GrandTheftApu 6,117 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 18 years agokalel wrote:
GrandTheftApu wrote:
So can I download for free all the thousands of tracks I already own?
/sees hole in plan
I should point out that you can use your phone like an ipod, and just put your already existing MP3s onto it also.
With large quantites of music this will rely on them being able to create a seamless interface between phone and computer, which is on a par with or better than ipod/itunes. -
deem 31,667 posts
Seen 8 months ago
Registered 18 years ago -
BlackJedi 388 posts
Seen 6 years ago
Registered 17 years agokalel wrote:
It depends on how "killer" you see the ability to download directly to a handheld device. I know a lot of people rarely use the iTunes store and simply buy CDs to rip them onto their iPod or other MP3 player. Is it really much more convenient to download music when you're out and about than when you're in the comfort of your own home?
Look, as I say it's all about 6 months to a year away realistically, but when it comes it will be very similar to the ipod experience, except you can download straight to your device. Again, how can Apple compete?
Also, when the technology makes it feasible to incorporate iPod-level abilities (20GB or more of storage, for a start) to a phone/PDA/digital camera hybrid device, the cost would be much higher than for an iPod alone; and by that time, I'm sure you could buy much better quality individual MP3 players, PDAs and digital cameras. You can now get phones that are as good cameras as my old digital camera - this doesn't mean I'm considering getting a new phone, it means I'm thinking of getting a new camera with better resolution, better zoom, more options... -
deem wrote:
kalel wrote:
See, wonderful as the ipod is, the fact that you need to go and spend realistically at least £400 to get a PC/Mac to work it with makes it quite an expensive option,
how many people do you know that would buy an ipod, but dont have a computer?
I don't think it'll work.
I do know a few actually. It's more the case that "If they had a PC, they'd get an ipod" if you know what I mean, but nevertheless, mobile downloads appeals to them.
The reason I'm banging on all of a sudden, is that we've done some research here on it (focus tests etc), and it looks like it could be big. I wasn't convinced before, but suddenly I can't really see any reason why not.
@ssuelid
Sorry, I missed your question. I believe in the near future GPS tech in phones will be used to track stolen handsets. Don't really know a lot of the details for that one, but it looks pretty solid. -
kalel wrote:
Again, how can Apple compete?
Your example of mobiles doing what ipod can do without the PC (Thus justifying the £400 statement) does have it flaws though. Without a PC to connect your mobile to, you'll have a lot of problems (can't burn, backup, rip existing music, move to another device when you upgrade). If people can't get the music off the mobile, they'll not use it (how can I listen to my music at home/ my house party etc?)
I also fully expect the DRM (Digital rights management) on these 'replacement mobiles' to be draconian... and the sound quality (both bitrate and reproduction from the phone's speakers/headphones) to be diabolical.
Lastly, i think by the time we see a mobile with 20GB or storage, ipod will have 'something else' that'll blow it away...
Without the ability to move the data 'wherever you want, whenever you want' it'll fail. -
OK, well, you seem to be focusing on what it can't do, rather than what it can, and trust me, when it comes to the all important marketing campaign, I suspect they'll be concentrating on what it can do to sell it to the masses.
You can move date wherever you want, whenever you want.
In fact, it can do pretty much everything an ipod can do plus you can download straight to the device. A pretty solid USP if you ask me.
As for concerns about the cost of such a device, handsets costs will always be absorbed into the contract, so you won't really notice it. Mobile phone handsets can cost a lot more than ipods don't forget.
Djini, your concerns about sound quality are misplaced. The manufacturors will make them as good as they need to be to compete. We already know Sony are dong a walkman series of phones, and besides, its not like ipod sound quality is all that!
Look, I don't know, it may well all flop, but having seen what's in store, and being an ipod owner myself, I'm impressed. I have no doubt that Apple's marketing genius will see them through, but I wouldn't be so sure that they can release a better product in the long run, as the might of a mobile phone network and the communication powers that come with it is not going to be easy to beat. -
gamingdave 5,087 posts
Seen 3 days ago
Registered 17 years agoHow can Apple compete?
Start making mobile phones. -
ssuellid 19,142 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 20 years agokalel wrote:
We already know Sony are dong
My personal favourite quote of the week.
What is the GPS security feature BTW? -
ssuellid wrote:
kalel wrote:
We already know Sony are dong
My personal favourite quote of the week.
What is the GPS security feature BTW?
LOL
I answered that above, but the short answer is, I don't really know, but something. I'll post a thread on it when I know more, but in a nutshell, they'll track stolen mobiles. -
mal 29,326 posts
Seen 3 years ago
Registered 20 years agokalel wrote:
How good does an ipod without headphones sound?
Sound from a mobile is poor (again, at the moment) but with headphones or separate speakers, again will be very competitive with an ipod (which isn't actually that great sounding). -
eviltobz 2,609 posts
Registered 18 years agoi don't pretend to be any sort of authority on what sounds "good" and what doesn't, but i've seen audiophile reviews of the ipod being very favourable for it's uses through a power amp with lossless encoding.
my concern with the phone option here, to re-spark the usual ds/psp flamewar is battery life. i know that whenever i use my p800 to play audio the juice just pours out, so this is going to be a major consideration. also as mentioned earlier i dont see this have so much use for the non-computer owner. as a small capacity player with very cheap access to songs maybe, but to fill a device when you have to pay itunes prices and probably already own many of the songs you want to put on it's appeal is quickly going to drop off.
if the capacity is high and the battery life is long then i can see it competeing strongly against the ipod for the same market share however. -
ssuellid 19,142 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 20 years agoSE say according to The Register "However, there's a new button for controlling music playback, and the manufacturer claims up to 15 hours of battery life with the phone functionality enabled, or 30 hours if it's disabled. " -
terminalterror 18,932 posts
Seen 6 days ago
Registered 20 years agoBlackJedi wrote:
It depends on how "killer" you see the ability to download directly to a handheld device. I know a lot of people rarely use the iTunes store and simply buy CDs to rip them onto their iPod or other MP3 player. Is it really much more convenient to download music when you're out and about than when you're in the comfort of your own home?
I'm guessing the ability to have consumers 'impulse buy' items through their phone is pretty lucrative. Imagine your sitting in a pub and somebody mentions a song, and you can't quite remember how it goes and really want to know. You could then download it to your phone. Some people will probably start using their phones as mobile jukebox replacements.
Reporo certainly seem to want customers for their online shopping on your phone service, as they are offering £5 off chart DVDs and CDs from CD wow, and £5 off anything over £8 from special reserve. Pretty generous when all it costs you to use the service is the GPRS you use, and if you have a smartphone, you can do use your desktop internet connection through USB or bluetooth (negating the purpose of reporo, but still saving you money). Admittedly its not quite the same, as you still have to wait for the parcel to be delivered, so there is hardly any advantage to ordering on your mobile or waiting till you get home. Maybe they are hoping you see something you want in HMV, check the price on reporo and order it from CD Wow from inside HMV or something. -
warlockuk 19,519 posts
Seen 1 week ago
Registered 17 years agoSeems dumb. Once the phone gets to the capabilities of an iPod it'll be the cost of a phone and an iPod separately... My phone takes the odd whack as do most peoples - dropping, punching, falling over... more than i'd put on a hard-drive based mp3 player... Plus the battery on a phone'd have to be bigger... they'd have to up the phone size to make it a proper iPod-killer, at which point it sucks as a phone.
Meh. And Sony Ericsson can suck my balls. -
BlackJedi 388 posts
Seen 6 years ago
Registered 17 years agoterminalterror wrote:
I can see it making money from impulse buys; after all, look at the money ringtones make - these could be the next ringtones, only they're full original songs.
BlackJedi wrote:
I'm guessing the ability to have consumers 'impulse buy' items through their phone is pretty lucrative. Imagine your sitting in a pub and somebody mentions a song, and you can't quite remember how it goes and really want to know. You could then download it to your phone. Some people will probably start using their phones as mobile jukebox replacements.
It depends on how "killer" you see the ability to download directly to a handheld device. I know a lot of people rarely use the iTunes store and simply buy CDs to rip them onto their iPod or other MP3 player. Is it really much more convenient to download music when you're out and about than when you're in the comfort of your own home?
However... I can't see people buying whole albums, never mind put together whole collections. It's one thing to drop a pound or two on a ringtone, "crazy frog", or a song, but to spend up to a tenner on an album? Can't see it. Especially when you've got to start thinking about having a backup strategy so you don't lose all your music when you lose your mobile or have it nicked down the pub.
Mobiles are part of a disposable culture. You read your text messages, you delete them. You buy a few ringtones, you delete the old ones. You take some photos down the pub, you delete them when you're bored with them. And after a year or so, you chuck (sell/ebay/give to your mum) the old phone and get a new one. The culture doesn't support something as permanent as a music collection. And there are probably only a handful of people in the country who backup anything from their mobiles.
What I'm saying is - when the technology comes along, it will co-exist with digital music players like the iPod. It will be used for more frivolous purposes in a throw-away culture, possibly some that no-one's thought of yet. And it will make money, but digital cameras, games consoles and music players will continue to be sold.
Feel free to keep a copy of this message to throw in my face in two years' time when Canon, Apple and Nintendo announce low profit warnings due to the Sony Ericsson iWalkmanPhoneBoyCamera dominating the handheld phone/mp3 player/PDA/camera/games console market. -
MikeD 10,063 posts
Seen 5 months ago
Registered 18 years agoBlackJedi wrote:
What I'm saying is - when the technology comes along, it will co-exist with digital music players like the iPod. It will be used for more frivolous purposes in a throw-away culture, possibly some that no-one's thought of yet. And it will make money, but digital cameras, games consoles and music players will continue to be sold.
Yeah, but there are a lot of people who wouldn't buy a good digital camera, but WOULD buy a phone with camera.
The ipod may be hip on the playground now, but as soon as phones have the capabilities those people won't even consider shelling out for an ipod. -
terminalterror 18,932 posts
Seen 6 days ago
Registered 20 years agoMikeD wrote:
BlackJedi wrote:
What I'm saying is - when the technology comes along, it will co-exist with digital music players like the iPod. It will be used for more frivolous purposes in a throw-away culture, possibly some that no-one's thought of yet. And it will make money, but digital cameras, games consoles and music players will continue to be sold.
Yeah, but there are a lot of people who wouldn't buy a good digital camera, but WOULD buy a phone with camera.
The ipod may be hip on the playground now, but as soon as phones have the capabilities those people won't even consider shelling out for an ipod.
At the moment there seem to be two different discussions.
Obviously a phone with ipod functionality would be great, and sell loads.
Whether there would be a market for selling you the music to fill up your phone is another matter. -
I'm with kalel on this, which is why Apple are scrabbling around for something to evolve the iPod beyond music. Such as photos. They must know that the iPod has a limited life-span. It's today's gadget of choice but history is littered with those. -
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