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i hope i didnt offend anyone with my post above, i just find that movie hilarious, best line being "see that? thats so you can attach a chain and use it as a BOAT ANCHOR" i appreciate it doesnt reflect OSx Mac Vs PC - it will be an endless war of opinions, we just have to accept it. |
When did evrybody start liking apple? • Page 2
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Sponz 702 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 17 years ago -
GrandTheftApu 6,117 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 18 years agorhythm wrote:
This value for money aspect is what makes getting "into" macs difficult. Apple have done an extremely good job of making themselves a market unto themselves with no real competition: if you're on the high street and don't want Windows, you have to choose a Mac. They set their own prices and seemingly refuse to allow people in with the prospect of special offers - if you want in, you have to pay the premium.
This is exactly the same with high end pc workstations from the likes of Alienware etc. if you want quality you have to pay the premium.
Edited by GrandTheftApu at 22:03:49 03-03-2005 -
TennesseeStiff 372 posts
Seen 3 years ago
Registered 20 years agoJCMONKEY wrote:
Ok, here is a competition to end the debate. Can you find me the best Mac/PC for under £500? I am currently looking for a new computer so this should be useful.
Who's going to win, Mac or PC?
Well that depends. It's a little a like saying I'm looking for the best wheel for under £500. If what you're driving is a truck, being presented with a fantastic, alloyed wheel, no profile wonder is of no value what so ever. On the other hand if you're a chave decorating some eight year old hatch ......
.... It's the same with computers. If you are equipping an office full of people or even a few individuals who need to do the key Words/Sheets/Mail/Internet/data tasks that the majority of office based people do, then a Mac Mini with a 15" TFT will be a better solution for them than a 2.5+ GHz PC at the same price. Why? Because they can sit down on the Mac and use it where as on the PC they would have to become to a large extent their own sysadmin.
...... on the other, for some snotty kid who wants to play games, a PC would be better because he needs all the Hertz he can get and the time he has to spend reinstalling, making sure what ever he is installing doesn't have Spayware, patching, getting the latest drivers and so on and so forth are not a concern to anyone.
Like I said, try looking after the computing needs of a typical group of people for a while and you'll understand the value of Macs.
Having said that, there is no doubt in mind that very often, especially with users who are a little bit more advanced, a PCs at the moment offers better value for money. The one exception is the very high end, as there are certain things which the duel G5s can smoke even the fastest duel AMD/Intel machines. At that end of the scale, there is hardly any difference in price.
By performance I don't just mean processing speed either, but also RAM, hard disk space, screen size and/or quality. Its mind-boggling just how cheap you can pick up tier one laptops for these days.
The iBook stripped of the OS and the iApps is not a very good machine. The screen is really quite bad, the keyboard in not at all good and of courses its out classed completely processor wise and in terms of how much memory it ships with. -
Milk 2,253 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 17 years agoI leave this post for one evening and it turns into a mac V pc thing...
Is everybody not sick of this conversation?
As for apple being a members only club, I agree. But the ipod was like a half price entry ticket for tards.
I just wrote this post because this has got to be one of the most 'pro Mac' games forums on the net. And by 'pro Mac' ('Mac neutral' might be a better term to use) I mean you can talk about them without getting shot down in flames, which is nice. But I guess that some things will never change. -
Angel_Treats 11,070 posts
Seen 8 years ago
Registered 18 years agoMy first Mac was an LCII. Can't remember how long ago it was, probably early nineties. Then I had a Powermac 7300, around 1995 I think. Also have an eMac and had an iMac. So I've been a Mac person for a long time. I didn't have a PC till I think 2001. The only reason I have one now is for gaming, but I prefer a Mac for other stuff. -
Miata 229 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 17 years agoThis might be an interesting thread for me.
I'm looking for a new computer for my folks. They now have a Packard Bell P3 with windows 98SE which was good for them for a couple of years, but they now need a new one.
My parents (both 55) are not much into computers, but they use it quite often. My mother usually for word processing, simple spreadsheets, e-mailing and surfing. My dad uses the Internet quite heavily during weekends to look for hobby-related stuff.
After reading this thread, I think a Mac might be something for them.
I have a couple of challenges:
1. They refuse to switch computers every 3 years: I need to buy them something that lasts for about 5 years.
2. They will need to learn a new OS anyway, but a Mac OS might be a bidge too far compared to XP.
3. A lot has gone wrong in the last couple of years and I'm sick of being tech support. They need a solid computer with a browser that protects them from harmful pop-ups and such.
4. The new computer has to be compatible with the printer they already use (a Brother b/w laser printer, don't know exact type, 300 something I believe)
5. My dad is thinking about buying a serious digital photocamera (5-8Megapixel) and would like to link that up to the computer (simple editing, easy-to-use album, etc.). No serious photoshopping, just good picture management.
6. My mom has seriously bad eyes. She needs a very good monitor with an easy option to switch to big fonts if needed.
7. My sister, who still lives at home some of the time, is a heavy MSN Messenger user. She would like to keep using this.
So my question is: would a Mac be something for them and if so, which one? Budget: 1000-2000 Euros (possibly more for a really good monitor).
Many thanks -
itamae 10,213 posts
Seen 1 year ago
Registered 19 years agoSounds like an entry-level Mac would be ideal for them, and although I don't own one myself I would recommend the Mac mini, possibly with a bit more RAM. It's fairly inexpensive so your folks can spend more on a decent monitor.
I don't think you can use the Brother printer as is, but I bet there are printer port to USB adapters so that shouldn't be a problem.
MSN messenging is supported by multi-protocol messengers like Fire and I think even iChat.
XP is quite different to Win98 and so they might as well learn to use OS X instead.
Longevity has never been an issue with Apple computers, in fact it's quite remarkable how well they age. My LC III has been in use for -how long?- I think 7 years.
Apple users are a minority so Mac-specific viri/malware/spyware are quite rare, whereas Windows PCs are pretty much infected as soon as you connect to the internet (shortest time for me: 2 minutes after OS installation; tought me to always install the firewall prior to updating Windows).
Picture management... I think this is one field Macs were designed for.
nb 1: I haven't actually used a Mac in years
nb 2: I'm quite content with my current Windows PC
nb 3: I would love to have a Mac mini, but cannot justify the expense right now -
eviltobz 2,609 posts
Registered 18 years agoyup, it does sound like a mac would fit the bill pretty well.
is the printer usb? if so then it may work alright, if it requires a parallel port then you're screwed, maybe not of a powermac, i'm not sure, but certainly with the consumer stuff. however, more and more pcs are ditching the old ports too, so you'd need to dig around. and as itamae said, there may be some adaptor anyway.
as you can see in the mac threads, the doing tech support thing for the parents drops off pretty heavily with macs.
one of the main draws to osx and ilife is the iphoto package for easy photo albumy stuff with some built in, simple to use image editting like red-eye removal.
same as windows osx offers various thingies for sight issues and the like, a featur i quite like is the zoom, whereby you can set a keyboard shortcut to zoom in around the mouse pointer to a predefined zoom level, and i'm sure there are other options to supplement this.
there is a version of msn for the mac -
ssuellid 19,142 posts
Seen 1 day ago
Registered 20 years agoMiata the main problem with this is you know PCs already and you will have to learn how to support the Mac - the concepts may be the same but the implemetations are totally different.
As for easy to use photo software then Picasa is free and excellent. Also install a more secure browser.
point 6) not sure if how can do this on a Mac but if you press ctrl and use the mouse wheel you can change the font size in a lot of apps. -
Miata 229 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 17 years agoThanks for the reply.
Guess a Mac might be something to look into. Biggest problem ssems to be the printer (it's not a USB one), but if that's the only problem it'll be OK.
Do you honestly believe going from 98SE to XP is as big of a step as going from 98SE to the Mac OS?
Last question: I know nothing about Mac's. If something should go wrong, will I be able to fix anything at all (software or OS, not hardware)?
Edit. ssuelid already dug into this last problem. This is a big concern
Edited by Miata at 14:35:50 04-03-2005 -
ssuellid 19,142 posts
Seen 1 day ago
Registered 20 years agoMiata wrote:
Do you honestly believe going from 98SE to XP is as big of a step as going from 98SE to the Mac OS?
Whoever said that is barking mad - not at lot of the interface changes. If you really want you can get XP to look and act like 95/98/2k. -
eviltobz 2,609 posts
Registered 18 years agoMiata wrote:
entirely depends on you and how good you are with pooters and stuff. there's plenty of resources to get info on how to do things on the mac, not least the guys here, and in most cases it's just a case of getting to grips with using different apps to do stuff. you have the system preferences app with it's different sections instead of control panel/administrative tools etc. the concepts behind most things are identical, and the mac stuff is often easier to set up (although possibly not quite so flexable in some cases)
Last question: I know nothing about Mac's. If something should go wrong, will I be able to fix anything at all (software or OS, not hardware)?
the best thing would be to try a little hands-on time at an apple re-seller or the apple centre so you can get a feel for what's similiar and what's different. then play with exposé and never go back.gif)
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KingOfSpain 5,344 posts
Seen 11 hours ago
Registered 17 years agoi blame chris martin and that paltrow bird. -
itamae 10,213 posts
Seen 1 year ago
Registered 19 years agoMiata wrote:
Is it some fancy high-end device? USB laser printers are quite affordable nowadays you know
Guess a Mac might be something to look into. Biggest problem ssems to be the printer (it's not a USB one), but if that's the only problem it'll be OK..gif)
Do you honestly believe going from 98SE to XP is as big of a step as going from 98SE to the Mac OS?
For someone who knows a bit more about computers than how to turn them on, surf the internet and write a letter now and then? Of course not. But I can assure you that even the slightest deviation from the norm can be devastating for non-computophile people so it doesn't really matter whether the next OS is X or XP in my opinion. Believe me, my mother wouldn't be able to able to access the internet anymore if I shoved the shortcut from the left side of the screen to the right
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Nemesis 20,312 posts
Seen 4 days ago
Registered 20 years agoFruit_Salad wrote:
Microsoft do get bashed alittle too much for my liking, especially from the "Apple" sector.
Aww, we love MS really.
Seriously, I do. It may take them a long time to get to where they are going, but they get there eventually. They make a stellar console (even though mine just died) good peripherals and XP (if looked after) can be a stable OS.
They also put stuff across to the Mac, whether that be for 'anti competitive' laws or whatever they still code for us. So Office, MSN, Mediaplayer and suchlike all are available. Whether you think the apps are shite or not is immaterial....being able to use MSN on the Mac means I can continue to chat to the dark side. -
Apologies to the Mac-ites, I just need to vent for a second:
Mac OS X you fucking piece of shit! DO WHAT I FUCKING TELL YOU!
/bashes head against brick wall -
Miata 229 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 17 years agoitamae wrote:
Believe me, my mother wouldn't be able to able to access the internet anymore if I shoved the shortcut from the left side of the screen to the right
Aha, I see you understand the way mothers use computers...
Like you, my job is to set things in an easy-to-use way and leave it that way for as long as possible. -
Ah. That's better. -
TennesseeStiff 372 posts
Seen 3 years ago
Registered 20 years agoWell you could VNC into the Mac reasonably easily from a PC. That is as long as they have broadband. Its much harder if they don't.
MSN is a no problem; as well as the aforementioned multi protocol solutions, MS make an MSN client for Macs.
If the monitor they have is pretty good and they are happy with it, then a Mac Mini is something which is worth looking at. However, if you are going to end up needing a monitor, then take a good look at the 17" iMac. Having said that, a Mac Mini with a decent amount of memory and a cheap 17" or 15" TFT monitor can be had for 500-600 quid.
What ever you do, factor in the cost of 512 MB of Ram into the total cost ..... Mac or PC.
Also see if you can qualify for student discounts. Perhaps your sister?
Anyway ... we can't just assume that the Mac will be the best solution. Supporting a Mac when you aren't yourself that familiar with the platform can be hard.
Hardware wise, I don't think they are any more difficult to support than a low end PC. All people change on low end PCs is Memory, Hard disk and Optical drives. Those are all things you can change on the Macs also and they use the same components.
I'm sure whatever camera your father gets will be well supported under OSX, but that Parallel Port printer will have to go. Having said that, if your father is getting a fancy camera, he might as well get a new printer so he can print them out properly. I doubt if that old printer is much good at printing pictures.
If you decide to go with a PC, there are a bunch of things you can do to make sure they don't have any problems.
1) Don't let them run as Administrator
2) Don't let them use IE
3) Install all the plug-ins, codecs, media Players they could possibly need (there aren't that many) and forbid them from installing any other ones!
4) Install all the programs they need and forbid them form installing anything else before talking to you
5) Get them to go on-line once a week as admin and download the latest fixes
6) Get them to use web mail (yahoo, Gmail)
7) Make sure SP2's software firewall is enabled if they are not running behind a router with its own firewall
8) Enable Auto Notification of Security updates.
I promise that if you get them to follow those 8 steps, even the lowliest cheap Dell can be made pretty secure and trouble free without having to even bother with Virus checking software or anti spywear. -
Nemesis 20,312 posts
Seen 4 days ago
Registered 20 years agoMy Mum understood and uses OSX with no issues. I think you need to perhaps spend an hour just showing her how things work and give them the confidence to try out things without being afraid of breaking the computer. -
Nemesis 20,312 posts
Seen 4 days ago
Registered 20 years agootto wrote:
Problem Blerkie?
Just to inject a smidgeon of balance to my posts in this thread, I'm deeply unhappy with iPhoto 5, it's absurdly slow. Seems unable to cope with large libraries. They really need to sort that out.
I also had some weird problems with my Airport network, for some reason the base station kept dropping out. I reflashed it and it was fine again. Nothing that hasn't happened to me with Linksys, but still.
Apart from that, mAc rox m$ sux! (wish there was an ascii character for the anarchy symbol)
My Netgear router drops out completely sometimes and it will always occur when I'm streaming QT movies (not those). Bloody weird. Just disappears. I have to restart the cable box, router and PB.
Other times, it's as sweet as. I'm sure it's this damn router, but so far it's behaving. -
Miata 229 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 17 years agoTennesseeStiff wrote:
A lot of interesting stuff
If I could get them to follow those 8 rules, especially 3 and 4, life would be easier.
My father is getting too confident on the Internet though, trying everything he comes across, including dodgy plug-ins and programs.
Thank you all so much for your feedback. I'll discuss the possibilities this weekend. I'll pick up this discussion back on Monday. -
Problem Blerkie?
You could say that.
I'm getting to be 100% certain that whoever designed the Mac OS X 'Finder' replacement had a spec which went like this:
1. Make it as difficult and unintuitive for Blerk as possible.
2. Add in some irritating stuff
3. Delete his files occasionally
4. And let's make the mouse stupidly fucking sensitive as well
5. Can we make it a colour he does like?
Can anyone recommend me a 'Windows Explorer' kind of Finder replacement for Mac OS X 10.3.X?
Honestly, I never used to have all this bloody grief with Mac OS 9.
Edited by Blerk at 15:18:18 04-03-2005 -
eviltobz 2,609 posts
Registered 18 years agoyeah, they really need to drastically remodel finder, unfortunately there seems to be a little bit of a "microsoft have got it right, but we're not going to admit it by doing something like windoes explorer" thing going on.
i've been meaning to try something like this out, but haven't got around to it, and the reviews of it are somewhat mixed :/ -
I did see that one, but as it's a commercial product I've got very little chance of being able to use it in any kind of anger - the Mac belongs to my office, I'm not buying stuff for their benefit! .gif)
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ssuellid 19,142 posts
Seen 1 day ago
Registered 20 years agoI'm sure that someone else mentioned wanting a windows like file explorer ages ago in another thread - might even have been Otto. -
TennesseeStiff 372 posts
Seen 3 years ago
Registered 20 years agoThere is Path Finder which I haven't had a chance to try out.
I think there is a big opportunity for someone to write an Explorer clone for Macs, particularly with all the people switching now.
About the only thing I like about Finder is Column View and Spring Loaded Folders.
Otto, have a look at Shoebox. Its silly that they have crippled the demo butt it might be worth a look. It's on my list of apps to try out when my PB arrives.
Edited by TennesseeStiff at 15:49:11 04-03-2005
Edited by TennesseeStiff at 15:49:49 04-03-2005 -
Milk 2,253 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 17 years agoWhat is wrong with osx? Tiger loooks like it has quite a few things sorted out, 'Automater' looks like it will save me lot's of time at work. Plus 'Dashboard' looks quite cool.
Soo, what is wrong with OSX then? The dock? the windows? anything in particular?
What does XP do better than OSX?
I'm enjoying reading this thread BTW. -
It's only really the file management stuff I have a problem with. That and the fact that my mouse appears to have been designed for a person without human-shaped hands. -
Finder is slow. Finder can be made to beach ball and become unresponsive for long periods of time. You have already mentioned the various network problems. There are whole sale problems with getting it to save and apply view settings and login details for network drives.
My own biggest peeve is how it mixes files and folders together when you have things sorted by name!
Oh and try adding a file to a folder on a network while you are viewing it with Finder. Start timing. See how long it takes for it to show up. You can go for a cup of tea if you want. And there isn’t even a kludge like pressing F5 in windows. You just have to sit there and wait.
Edited by TennesseeStiff at 16:40:38 04-03-2005
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