CD/Digital VS Vinyl - Anybody listen to vinyl records? Page 6

  • quadfather 26 Dec 2014 14:46:31 38,799 posts
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    Is it the platter that's wobbling or the tonearm itself? Have you calibrated the tonearm with the weight etc?
  • MrSensible 26 Dec 2014 14:48:19 26,517 posts
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    It's the platter, as far as I can tell. You can see it going bonkers even before you bring the tonearm across.
  • quadfather 26 Dec 2014 15:07:14 38,799 posts
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    Try reseating it?
  • Deleted user 26 December 2014 15:53:04
    What kind of record player is it?

    I have been having problems with my Rega RP1 and it was fixed on Christmas day by my girlfriend's dad with a sliver of sellotape. Amazing. Essentially the spindle connected to the motor wasn't actually connected properly. I think I will need to do something more permanent but for the moment it is working and I can play my Christmas records \o/
  • MrSensible 26 Dec 2014 23:32:57 26,517 posts
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    To be honest, I'm now trying to decide if I'm just being paranoid and it was a rare occurrence. I'm not too clued up on vinyl records at all to be honest. How much are they supposed to 'wobble'? It seems to be moving like a wave.
  • CosmicFuzz 26 Dec 2014 23:42:18 32,608 posts
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    I got a wee record player for christmas too with some records (pink floyd dark side of the moon and guardians of the galaxy soundtrack). Love it, can't wait to start collecting some records and, as said above, listening to albums properly rather than random playlists on Spotify.

    Also got dad's old collection too, loads of good 70s/80s albums. I predict new year will be fun!
  • Vice.Destroyer 27 Dec 2014 00:42:22 7,401 posts
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    gamingdave wrote:
    LegacySystem wrote:
    I've got a collection of vinyl from the 80's and a turntable that plugs into my amp. I got the turntable from Argos for about 20.

    I can't say that the sound is "better".
    Well it's certainly not going to be "better" on a 20 turntable from Argos!

    I've got a nice turntable setup at work in the form of a 1210 with a good Nagaoka cartridge running through an old Yamaha amp that cost 1k back in the late 90s. It's also connected to my PC via a pro M-Audio interface. It's by no means top end but it's certainly not budget either.

    The analogue/digital argument in audio is as old as digital files, and there is so much nonsense spoken (in both camps). In reality a CD quality digital file is capable of capturing all of the audible data in a vinyl record. A high quality digital rip of a vinyl record is indistinguishable from the original to most people (myself included).

    Vinyl frequently sounds different (not better, or worse, as thats preference) to digital recordings because of it's imperfections. Pop and crackle whilst technically interference can have an emotional effect connecting you with the recording. Then there is the way the music is stored on vinyl with RIAA equalisation. The bass is reduced and the highs increased and a preamp then reverses this. As a result different preamps have different effects on the music and essentially act as tone controls.

    In an analytical sense you would want a pure undistorted signal every time, but it's a personal thing. Some people like more treble and bass with a V shape curve, other tweak sound in different ways, others want the flattest sound possible. So vinyl can sound different even though no obvious tone controls are used, the combination of stylus/cartridge and amp having a bigger impact than the source does in a digital chain.

    It's well known that listening environment has an effect on how we hear music, as well as our other senses, and this interaction with the music via holding records can have a positive effect in conecting with the music, which selecting a digital track from a folder on a hard drive can't replicate. Listening to vinyl is a more engaging experience as it is more deliberate. Vinyl is also attractive to look at, as are the sleeves, and I'm a big advocate for listening to albums in their entirety and never using shuffle, these factors again add to the experience. I do think the tactility of vinyl is a huge plus.

    Another big factor is the mastering. Modern albums (and reissues) are increasingly mastered for listening to on portable devices in digital formats. The dynamic range and subtlety in these recordings are often lost, and instead it's a brute force approach to make it sound louder which they think is better. If you like older music frequently the original vinyl pressings will sound better than CD reissues simply because they come from a better master.

    Some in the vinyl camp insist that analogue recordings sound better than digital ones, but for that to be possible the vinyl needs to have come from a purely analogue chain from the mics to the mixing desk, to the editing, and to the vinyl press. If it's turned into a digital file at any point you might as well have a lossless copy of that instead of a converted version into a format prone to degradation and errors. People are going back to pure analogue studio recordings, but a lot of albums released on very expensive vinyl issues using heavyweight vinyl have come from a digital source anyway, so the sound difference argument is nulled to a large degree in those cases.

    Of course if you are a collector and have the space, vinyl is a beautiful thing. You can look through it and get pleasure which a HD or server won't provide. You can spend the time tracking down an old pressing. A turntable is also a much more attractive object to have in your room than a PC or CD player.

    Analogue will cost you more, whilst the laws of diminishing returns are true a decent turntable will cost you a lot more than a competent CD player or DAC to use with a PC.

    I do listen to records at work, but also music via my server and Spotify. I just try to enjoy music regardless of source. I don't at home because I have young children in the house!

    I am in the (very slow) process however of ripping all my vinyl that isn't available digitally to the PC. I have buckets of drum and bass which simply isn't available on anything but vinyl and I have yet to find a way to listen to them on the move.

    I would never want to sell my vinyl collection, and will add to it in the future, but I would also not live without digital audio.

    This. A thousand times this. And this video is also relevant. picture quality is awful, but the audio is good.

  • Deleted user 27 December 2014 02:03:33
    Vinyl is shit, you may prefer its sound, but that sound is a result of worse reproduction of the original sound. The difference is caused by vinyl "character" that actually compromises sound, CD is much better at reproducing the original input.

    I listen to black metal though, so a 32kbps mp3 sounds just as good as anything else to me.
  • Deleted user 27 December 2014 02:37:53
    DrStrangelove wrote:
    Vinyl is shit, you may prefer its sound,
    You've completely nullified your own opening point with the second. Doesn't matter which is technically better or worse, you take your own preference.

    I prefer CDs, that doesn't make vinyl (which I still have knocking around) worse, just different.
  • Deleted user 27 December 2014 02:44:01
    I didn't nullify it, people may prefer vinyl, but they are wrong.
  • TheCloakedLady 27 Dec 2014 04:40:50 150 posts
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    When my dad croaked earlier this year, I found out a few things about him I hadn't realised, but the most surprising was that he had somewhat decent taste in music, before the 80s (my formative memories were of that period, when he exclusively listened to shit).

    I'm now the legal owner of his vinyl collection, I think on the basis that I'm the only one in the family who still has a turntable and an existing vinyl collection. I love the whole process and reverential, delicateness nature of vinyl. Want to play Sir Duke? Then I need to go to the rack, flip through to W, pick out Songs in the Key of Life, pick the right record and the correct side, give it a careful clean with the anti-static brush, put it on the platter, check the speed is on 33 1/2 and the amp is on phono, start the motor and drop the needle at the right place (song 1, side 2?).

    Or just find it on my phone, turn on bluetooth, switch amp channels and hit play.
  • mrharvest 27 Dec 2014 07:18:43 5,716 posts
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    MrSensible wrote:
    To be honest, I'm now trying to decide if I'm just being paranoid and it was a rare occurrence. I'm not too clued up on vinyl records at all to be honest. How much are they supposed to 'wobble'? It seems to be moving like a wave.
    The platter isn't supposed to wobble at all. It should be level and rotate smoothly.
  • MrSensible 30 Dec 2014 19:36:55 26,517 posts
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    Thanks for that. After testing a bit it only seems to do it with one record I've got, the others all seem normal. Maybe it's just a bit dodgy? It's brand new though!

    Everything else is going great, love having this around already. I need to get a proper sound setup next, rather than just running my PC speakers through the thing!
  • TheCloakedLady 30 Dec 2014 19:53:09 150 posts
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    If it only does it with one record, what do you think it could be?

    That record has warped. Store them upright
  • MrSensible 30 Dec 2014 19:54:35 26,517 posts
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    Well obviously I'm assuming it's that but as I say it's brand new (sealed) and is only stored upright.

    I was just pointing out that I'd narrowed it down and it was a bit odd :p
  • TheCloakedLady 30 Dec 2014 19:57:51 150 posts
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    Oh, sorry. Some places store vinyl poorly. I miss the days when HMV had turntables set up to listen to em before buying. Or even when they had vinyl for sale!
  • mal 30 Dec 2014 20:00:45 29,326 posts
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    Vinyl storage is mainly a question of keeping things cool enough - a hot record will sag if stood up against something, or its grooves will be flattened if stacked in a horizontal pile. The best way to store them is inside something like a record box, with enough in the box to ensure they're all roughly vertical, but not squashed in there.

    My own question: I've noticed on some of my records, the lead in to a side is a lot more scratchy and has a lot more pops than the track or the inter-track gaps. Is it just my ears adapting to the sound levels, or do they put deliberately noisy intros onto records?

    Edit: Whoops, should have refreshed before posting.

    Edited by mal at 20:02:06 30-12-2014
  • wizbob 30 Dec 2014 20:05:25 933 posts
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    Sounds like the record is warped, possibly because it was in a flat stack. I've noticed my vinyl from between 1980-2010 warps easier too because the records are light and thin.

    My tuppence contribution to the debate is that I love listening to a side of a record and handling the sleeve. I often listen to digital music but I rarely make a cup of tea, relax and cue up an m3u file - that's more of an event.
  • mal 30 Dec 2014 20:09:22 29,326 posts
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    I've noticed since my first C90 that it's easier to drift off during an album if there isn't an mandatory activity in the middle to wake you up again.

    Most of my dance and electronic records from the 90s are put on pretty heavyweight vinyl. I guess the major labels would have been using the cheap stuff by then, but the independent labels still valued robustness.

    Edited by mal at 20:09:50 30-12-2014
  • AceGrace 30 Dec 2014 20:10:59 3,444 posts
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    My dad brought round all my records from my teens in the eighties.

    Just got a record player and can rip to SD card.

    Anyone for a Samantha fox picture disc? 😁
  • Cappy 30 Dec 2014 20:32:34 14,312 posts
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    I found a US import of Nevermind The Bollocks in perfect condition on a visit to the North West back in the 90s, going home I decided to take an overnight coach back to London Victoria so I wouldn't waste any of the next day travelling.

    The record was stowed in the luggage in my suitcase, as the journey progressed I noticed it was becoming uncomfortably hot. The driver had the heat on full, but he wasn't troubled because he had the window beside him fully open to keep himself cool. Passengers don't get a window they can open, all they get are those useless little air vents.

    It was so Hellish I did the unBritish thing, complaining and asking him to turn it down. He said fine, but I think he might have turned it even further up to teach me a lesson, I was counting down the miles all the way along the M6 so I could get off that searing hot coach.

    At approximately 6:00AM the coach rolled into Victoria, I noticed that my case felt rather heated up when I collected it. Later on I popped the record on my turn table and noticed it wouldn't sit flat, the needle was up and down like a cross Country skier.

    That was the day I learned that records could get warped.
  • JoeBlade 9 May 2015 17:48:35 6,136 posts
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    Seemingly random bump but it's actually relevant: is vinyl making a major comeback abroad (I live in Belgium) as well?

    The past year or so I've very frequently seen people carrying LPs and former CD stores are now primarily selling vinyl as well.
    Even record players - many of which look very retro to boot - are being sold there now.

    It seems to be all the rage lately to the point where my buying CDs (I never got on with digital except for software) actually seems old fashioned, ironically.
  • quadfather 9 May 2015 18:23:25 38,799 posts
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    It's certainly booming in Manchester. I often see people with records they've just bought. Not all hipsters either.

    Though it's putting the bloody prices up

    Saw a sign in a shop in town that said, "Warning: Vinyl is killing mp3 downloads"

    Good stuff
  • Deleted user 9 May 2015 18:40:25
    @JoeBlade I always go to a record store when I am in Europe and there are some fine ones around which suggests that there is quite a bit of interest. I'm sure I went to one when I was in Brussels a while back. Can't remember the name of it though.
  • JoeBlade 9 May 2015 22:12:52 6,136 posts
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    @Mr_Sleep That's the thing, I'm not talking about specialised vinyl stores; large former CD retail stores are switching to vinyl in a major way.
    And at a quick glance they're more packed than ever in the past decade so the interest is indeed very much there.

    Unexpected and somehow a bit surreal yet also pretty cool I suppose.
  • Deleted user 9 May 2015 23:24:52
    @JoeBlade oh yeah, John Lewis over here have jumped on the vinyl bandwagon. It does seem to be a thing. I guess the lure of a solid item of fetish merchandise is strong. I live vinyl myself, there is something organic about the process that CDs will never match.
  • Ziz0u 4 Apr 2016 09:04:51 11,006 posts
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    I collect vinyl records. I try only have good stuff worth owning. My girlfriend on the other-hand is a fan of bargain bin 'POP Collections'. I ain't a snob though :p

    Living in the 3rd world I sometimes manage to get records at markets that the seller doesn't really know the value of. There are proper vinyl shops where they know their shit though. Yesterday I picked up Brian Wilson - Brian Wilson for R10 (about 50p).

    Then out the corner of my eye, Tupac was staring back at me. At a stand where a couple of gentleman were selling car parts... They had 'All Eyez On Me' proudly displayed on a music stand. They had no other records, so who knows how they got their hands on this. Pressed in the USA etc. Unfortunately for me, they knew the value of it. They wanted R700 (about 35 pounds). Had to walk away, but I want it pretty badly. He said 'you seem like a good guy. Come back next week and we can talk'.

    Anyway, /getablog

    Anyone else find any gooduns in unexpected places?

    Oh and I got a Gary Glitter album for a pound when I was in London. Nobody else was gonna buy it :lol:
  • quadfather 4 Apr 2016 10:08:03 38,799 posts
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    I found a black Sabbath record with the original poster. Cost me 50p.

    Put it on eBay and it went for 145!!!
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