Audiophiles unite Page 4

  • Deleted user 11 June 2014 10:43:33
    kalel wrote:
    RE: Sonos, I have a load of them round my house as like nick, I just choose convenience for my home stuff.

    That said, it does piss me off that it doesn't support 24bit. I assume that will change once the whole HD music thing really kicks off, and again, it seems like the whole world is just waiting for Apple to get on board.
    24 bit is pointless for listening. The science.

    Meanwhile HD Tracks is quite a scam - lots of its stuff is upconverted from low dynamic range masters. What music needs is to turn away from shitty brickwalled masters, not the expensive 24bit downloads - a good dynamic mastered record at 320k mp3 will sound better than a brickwalled DR6 24/192 "hd track".
  • Armoured_Bear 11 Jun 2014 10:43:51 29,798 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Right, so you're getting lossless files but probably not hi-res ones, in which case you are indeed compromising for convenience.
    No, I listen to vinyl which is a massive compromise on convenience for quality.
    Streaming is ONLY for background music, e.g. when we have people round.
    I don't think that much of my library is available in hi-res anyway.
    To get the best out of hi-res digital, I'd need a better DAC/playback method than just now, which I probably will look at when hi-res properly takes off.
  • Deleted user 11 June 2014 10:47:15
    I feel like we're almost all in violent agreement here, but the point is your "background music" solution is a compromise of convenience over quality. It's not a criticism, but you seemed to be suggesting you don't compromise, which you clearly do.
  • Armoured_Bear 11 Jun 2014 10:51:24 29,798 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    I feel like we're almost all in violent agreement here, but the point is your "background music" solution is a compromise of convenience over quality. It's not a criticism, but you seemed to be suggesting you don't compromise, which you clearly do.
    Ah, ok, yes I see what you mean now, I suppose that it is a compromise when I put on background music. I guess it's a case of choosing your battles, when sitting down to listen properly, I don't want to compromise at all. When listening on my IPhone outside the home or having music in the background at lower volume then I do.
  • Deleted user 11 June 2014 10:53:46
    Maturin wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    RE: Sonos, I have a load of them round my house as like nick, I just choose convenience for my home stuff.

    That said, it does piss me off that it doesn't support 24bit. I assume that will change once the whole HD music thing really kicks off, and again, it seems like the whole world is just waiting for Apple to get on board.
    24 bit is pointless for listening. The science.

    Meanwhile HD Tracks is quite a scam - lots of its stuff is upconverted from low dynamic range masters. What music needs is to turn away from shitty brickwalled masters, not the expensive 24bit downloads - a good dynamic mastered record at 320k mp3 will sound better than a brickwalled DR6 24/192 "hd track".
    Yes, I'm well aware of the debate. Anyone with the slightest interest in hi-res music will have seen that link and many like it a billion times. They'll have also seen a billion rebuttals that claim to also be "the science".

    End of the day you can only trust your ears. I've got two versions of a few albums and there is absolutely no question for me that there's a different. The detail I can hear in my 24bit version of Tommy is astonishing. I can literally hear them breathing. It's simply not there on my other version.

    I'm open to what might be causing the difference but I don't really care why one sounds better, just that one does.
  • nickthegun 11 Jun 2014 10:55:00 85,079 posts
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    The pedant in me would now suggest that, by your definition, you arent an audiophile.
  • Armoured_Bear 11 Jun 2014 10:56:23 29,798 posts
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    I use Musical Fidelity Amps (A5 CR Pre Amp, 2x A3Cr Power Amps) which I've had for 12 years or so.
    A year ago, I sent them to jsaudiorepairs (John Sampson was the MF Service Manager for 30 years or so) for an upgrade. He replaced better quality terminals, redid the internal wiring and replaced all internal components (capacitors, op-amps etc.). It cost 400 quid per unit but is possibly the biggest improvement I've had (apart from maybe the speaker upgrade).
  • Armoured_Bear 11 Jun 2014 10:56:58 29,798 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    The pedant in me would now suggest that, by your definition, you arent an audiophile.
    I am, just a part-time one :-)

    Edited by Armoured_Bear at 10:57:49 11-06-2014
  • Armoured_Bear 11 Jun 2014 10:58:37 29,798 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Maturin wrote:
    kalel wrote:
    RE: Sonos, I have a load of them round my house as like nick, I just choose convenience for my home stuff.

    That said, it does piss me off that it doesn't support 24bit. I assume that will change once the whole HD music thing really kicks off, and again, it seems like the whole world is just waiting for Apple to get on board.
    24 bit is pointless for listening. The science.

    Meanwhile HD Tracks is quite a scam - lots of its stuff is upconverted from low dynamic range masters. What music needs is to turn away from shitty brickwalled masters, not the expensive 24bit downloads - a good dynamic mastered record at 320k mp3 will sound better than a brickwalled DR6 24/192 "hd track".
    Yes, I'm well aware of the debate. Anyone with the slightest interest in hi-res music will have seen that link and many like it a billion times. They'll have also seen a billion rebuttals that claim to also be "the science".

    End of the day you can only trust your ears. I've got two versions of a few albums and there is absolutely no question for me that there's a different. The detail I can hear in my 24bit version of Tommy is astonishing. I can literally hear them breathing. It's simply not there on my other version.

    I'm open to what might be causing the difference but I don't really care why one sounds better, just that one does.
    Very interesting.
    Where did you source the tracks?
    Did you compare with a ripped CD?
  • Deleted user 11 June 2014 11:06:29
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Very interesting.
    Where did you source the tracks?
    Did you compare with a ripped CD?
    I buy lossless stuff from a few places. Think I got Tommy from the Linn shop. And I compared with a CD, not a ripped one.

    To be clear, I'm not necessarily saying it's the 24bit part that's important. It could well simply be the compression process to the CD that does it. Frankly I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the science of it all. Again, that doesn't really interest me. There's no doubt to me though that for whatever reason there is a significant leap in quality with hi-res files.

    Also full disclosure, I'm a relatively recent convert to believing in hi-res. I suspect somewhere on this forum you'll find posts where I say it's all bollocks. It was only when I recently upped the quality of my DAC/amp that I started to really notice a difference.
  • ram 11 Jun 2014 12:13:07 3,598 posts
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    What amp/Dac have you got?

    Nickthegun Airplay supports FLAC.
  • Deleted user 11 June 2014 12:16:34
    I've got a Woo WA7.
  • nickthegun 11 Jun 2014 12:20:26 85,079 posts
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    ram wrote:
    Nickthegun Airplay supports FLAC.
    Would be weird if it did because iTunes doesnt.
  • Armoured_Bear 11 Jun 2014 12:34:22 29,798 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Very interesting.
    Where did you source the tracks?
    Did you compare with a ripped CD?
    I buy lossless stuff from a few places. Think I got Tommy from the Linn shop. And I compared with a CD, not a ripped one.

    To be clear, I'm not necessarily saying it's the 24bit part that's important. It could well simply be the compression process to the CD that does it. Frankly I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the science of it all. Again, that doesn't really interest me. There's no doubt to me though that for whatever reason there is a significant leap in quality with hi-res files.

    Also full disclosure, I'm a relatively recent convert to believing in hi-res. I suspect somewhere on this forum you'll find posts where I say it's all bollocks. It was only when I recently upped the quality of my DAC/amp that I started to really notice a difference.
    Thanks.
  • nickthegun 11 Jun 2014 13:00:43 85,079 posts
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    Its not top end by any stretch, but i use an Cambridge Audio DACMAGIC XS day to day.

    Its amazing, really. Its pitched perfectly around the level of my headphones and sounds fantastic.

    It replaced an outgoing audiosomething dragonfly, which met with an unfortunate squash related accident.

    http://www.whathifi.com/review/cambridge-audio-dacmagic-xs
  • alexm 11 Jun 2014 13:14:25 349 posts
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    What were people's thoughts on Neil Young's Pono Kickstarter?

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1003614822/ponomusic-where-your-soul-rediscovers-music

    It got a lot of support but I can't figure out if it's an amazing product or a complete gimmick.
  • nickthegun 11 Jun 2014 13:18:42 85,079 posts
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    both
  • Vortex808 11 Jun 2014 13:43:08 14,749 posts
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    alexm wrote:
    What were people's thoughts on Neil Young's Pono Kickstarter?

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1003614822/ponomusic-where-your-soul-rediscovers-music

    It got a lot of support but I can't figure out if it's an amazing product or a complete gimmick.
    He certainly bangs on about it a fucking lot in his autobiography.

    I'm interested to hear how it is, so I can do a comparison, since I don't tend to quite believe him on his claims on how much sound quality is lost. That seems over-exaggerated to me.
  • Deleted user 11 June 2014 13:51:28
    In itself it won't get very far, but it's a good thing because it's going to make others raise their game in this respect.
  • Deleted user 12 June 2014 22:57:23
    nickthegun wrote:

    A lot of people are lapsing is the point im trying to make. Its perfectly possible to be into something and accept convenience over quality.
    That's pretty much where I stand on it. I don't like listening to dogshit quality music (eg. I prefer to listen to music via CD through my old Sony hifi paired with my Senny HD558s), but the fact of the matter is, having a library of 45,000 mp3s ripped at 320kb/s just sitting on a computer or portable hard drive is just so ridiculously handy.

    Obviously there's much better sources/file types out there, but it's not as if they're akin to listening to a warped cassette recording of some long wave radio station. Sound/copying quality has jumped an obscene amount in the last decade and a half, and I'm fairly satisfied with my lot.
  • mal 12 Jun 2014 23:55:01 29,326 posts
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    You only need a 1.1TB HDD to store that many 16-bit FLACs judging by my collection so far (I've only ripped 90GBs so far though). Course if you're happy with 320kbps MP3 that's fine with me, but personally I appreciate the assurance that my music's been minimally fucked-about-with by the time it reaches my ears.
  • Armoured_Bear 12 Jun 2014 23:59:55 29,798 posts
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    Fucking hell, it's an "audiophile" thread, not a " I listen to mp3s and am happy with it" tardfest.
    FFS....

    Edited by Armoured_Bear at 00:18:16 13-06-2014
  • Fonzie 13 Jun 2014 00:15:19 3,447 posts
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    My setup is getting on a bit now but I still love it. I have a Cyrus 8 amp, Exposure 1010 CD player and Quad 11L speakers on Partington Dreadnaught speaker stands. I also have a Denon tape deck connected to it but it rarely gets used. Everything still looks brand new and it still sounds great. Have my tv and consoles connected to the amp also.

    Edited by Fonzie at 00:16:01 13-06-2014

    Edited by Fonzie at 00:16:31 13-06-2014
  • Armoured_Bear 13 Jun 2014 00:20:46 29,798 posts
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    Fonzie wrote:
    My setup is getting on a bit now but I still love it. I have a Cyrus 8 amp, Exposure 1010 CD player and Quad 11L speakers on Partington Dreadnaught speaker stands. I also have a Denon tape deck connected to it but it rarely gets used. Everything still looks brand new and it still sounds great. Have my tv and consoles connected to the amp also.

    Edited by Fonzie at 00:16:01 13-06-2014
    Nice system.
    If you wanted to upgrade, a modern DAC or floor standers would be the way to go IMO.
  • Deleted user 13 June 2014 01:22:36
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Fucking hell, it's an "audiophile" thread, not a " I listen to mp3s and am happy with it" tardfest.
    FFS....
    I'm happy with in the same way that you're happy with it i.e. have stuff on in the background. I did mention that my preferred method of listening to music is on CD with decent headphones.

    Which is why I've hopped into this thread. I used to be more picky with sound quality, but years of being a dick at rock and metal gigs (which is to say, not wearing hearing protecting) has meant that my hearing has certainly passed its prime. More importantly, I've also realised I've never listened to anything above CD/vinyl quality. How revelatory is that? I feel like I can pick out most of what's happening on a record with decent production.
  • Fonzie 13 Jun 2014 08:17:46 3,447 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    Fonzie wrote:
    My setup is getting on a bit now but I still love it. I have a Cyrus 8 amp, Exposure 1010 CD player and Quad 11L speakers on Partington Dreadnaught speaker stands. I also have a Denon tape deck connected to it but it rarely gets used. Everything still looks brand new and it still sounds great. Have my tv and consoles connected to the amp also.

    Edited by Fonzie at 00:16:01 13-06-2014
    Nice system.
    If you wanted to upgrade, a modern DAC or floor standers would be the way to go IMO.
    Eventually I may think of upgrading but a tv upgrade is next on my list.
  • Deleted user 13 June 2014 09:36:52
    FuzzyDuck wrote:
    I've also realised I've never listened to anything above CD/vinyl quality. How revelatory is that? I feel like I can pick out most of what's happening on a record with decent production.
    Vinyl is about as high a quality source as you can get.
  • Tonka 13 Jun 2014 09:42:21 31,651 posts
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    I sued to live above someone who had a piano. On sundays the person would practice. I really liked it. Just a naked piano on it's own. Filtered through my floor.

    Made me think I should build a piano that played midi files. There is something about the real sound that I've never heard a set of speakers come close to replicating.

    Then I read an article by a guy who went behind the scenes at CES to visit the secret speaker boots visited by those who build audio systems for the 1%. He made it understood that what he heard there made him feel as if he heard recorded music for the first time. It was on a completely different level.

    Have any of you encountered something like that?
  • mrpon 13 Jun 2014 10:16:00 36,885 posts
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    kalel wrote:
    I've got a Woo WA7.
    I had no idea what this was, but now I want one.
  • JuanKerr 13 Jun 2014 10:17:23 37,710 posts
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    I've got a Nee NAW12.
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