| As with all of these things ymmv. But just so you know a couple of grand is still very much considered ‘low end’ with these things, especially for an all in one table. You can get cartridges alone that cost tens of thousands of pounds. |
Audiophiles unite • Page 31
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You-can-call-me-kal 22,382 posts
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SnackPlissken 2,630 posts
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Registered 3 years agomonkman76 wrote:
You still need decent speakers and an amp.. buying a good turntable with budget speakers/amp won't cut it.
Christ on a bike. What differentiates a £2000 turntable from a £200 one?
/joins Higgy's revolution -
You-can-call-me-kal 22,382 posts
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Registered 15 years agoAnd a decent preamp .gif)
And decent cables. And the right shape room. And sound proofing. And the right kind of floor. And curtains. -
fontgeeksogood 12,059 posts
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Registered 3 years agoAnd the white Blu Tac - it has better vibration reduction than the blue kind -
Your-Mother 6,272 posts
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Registered 4 years agoOr just Spotify and AirPods am I right -
mrpon 36,760 posts
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Registered 14 years agoOr an ear candling session! -
fontgeeksogood 12,059 posts
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Registered 3 years agoJade eggs -
You-can-call-me-kal 22,382 posts
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Registered 15 years agoFWIW while diminishing returns is a huge thing with audiophile stuff, I think you can spend a lot more than a few grand before you get to that point.
I.E. I’m absolutely certain that anyone would hear a very big difference between a £2k turntable and a £200 turntable (assuming all the other components were also up to scratch). -
Armoured_Bear 29,488 posts
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Registered 9 years agoYou-can-call-me-kal wrote:
Two turntables that I always fancied but sadly never bought are the Nottingham Analogue Spacedeck and the Gyrodec, still looks gorgeous. I was always put off the LP12 with the amount of maintenance required which I cab with.
Ok, so the new turntable hunt.
I’ll get my bonus at the end of January so it sort of depends how juicy that is. But there’s a few contenders.
At the bottom end there’s a Marantz tt15s1. Advantages are it’s an all in one plug and play and all the components are pretty good, especially the cart which costs £900 or so just on its own, so it’s very good value. Con is it’s not very upgradeable.
Similarly there’s the Avid Ingenium which is also an all in one and I really like the Avid sound, but again, kind of no upgrade path.
If the bonus is juicy and I save hard things get a bit more interesting. There’s the classic Michell Gyrodec which I absolutely love. There’s the Avid Diva II which again I like the Avid sound. There’s the Rega P8 which I kind of hate the design of but is a great deck in that price range. And various other things of interest, but it’s the Michell I think I’m most into, ideally with an SME309.
And there’s also the turntable I’ve wanted for maybe 30 years which is the LP12. I could potentially just about stretch maybe to the base model. But I’m aware they are an absolute ball ache in maintenance and servicing and I think it would be a terrible choice for me. But I’ll always want one.
I'd love a VPI HW-40 -
Armoured_Bear 29,488 posts
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Registered 9 years agoYou-can-call-me-kal wrote:
Without a doubt.
FWIW while diminishing returns is a huge thing with audiophile stuff, I think you can spend a lot more than a few grand before you get to that point.
I.E. I’m absolutely certain that anyone would hear a very big difference between a £2k turntable and a £200 turntable (assuming all the other components were also up to scratch). -
gamingdave 5,036 posts
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Registered 17 years agoI'm (relatively) certain most people could hear a difference between multiple £200 and multiple £2,000 turntables. But when it comes to vinyl, I really do find "better" is highly subjective.
Vinyl isn't "accurate", it needs to have the RIAA curve applied to it first, and different pre-amps will do that very slightly differently. Different cartridges and stylus may pick up tiny differences too.
If you want accurate, what was recorded and mastered by the engineer, then go digital.
Unless the vinyl has been cut on a completely analogue lathe (most aren't), from a master coming out of an all analogue recording desk (most aren't) and using only analogue instruments and other equipment (compressors, delays, chorus) then you are just getting an inaccurate version of the master file.
If it's been recorded on a digital desk, then really, you want a digital file. Even if it's been all analogue in the chain, a high quality conversion to digital really will loose nothing.
The "sound" of vinyl comes from its imperfections, so (to me at least) if someone prefers one deck over another it's not because it's better, it just suits the sound signature you prefer. And funnily enough, whilst audiophiles sneer at it, if that's what you want, to colour the sound to preference by combining components, then get an extensive EQ in your chain.
Of course, that's not the sole point of vinyl, I love it for a myriad of reasons, including the sound, but don't see (and have never heard) a reason to upgrade from my 25 year old 1210s
Not judging you for wanting to spend that much, I have a box full of vintage watches, I get hobbies buying things worth more than their constituent parts, or where something cheaper achieves the same (but not your) goal. And if that special deck adds to the enjoyment of collecting and listening to music, go for it! -
gamingdave 5,036 posts
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Registered 17 years agoArmoured_Bear wrote:
Despite what I just wrote, if I won the lottery, I would buy one of those tomorrow
I'd love a VPI HW-40
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Armoured_Bear 29,488 posts
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Registered 9 years agogamingdave wrote:
Haha.
Armoured_Bear wrote:
Despite what I just wrote, if I won the lottery, I would buy one of those tomorrow
I'd love a VPI HW-40
Allegedly, despite analogue having limitations, the distortion produced seems to be more pleasing on the ear compared to digital, simple explanation here.
I think that may play a role, I get quite a bit out of album art, lyric sheet, aesthetics and the act of playing a record as well as enjoying the sound hugely. -
You-can-call-me-kal 22,382 posts
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Registered 15 years ago@gamingdave
Yeah I accepted a while ago that vinyl fetishising is exactly that - a fetish. It’s certainly not about accuracy in the vast majority of cases and in all honesty my digital chain will probably still sound better than my analogue one even once I’ve got my new fancy deck.
But like you I enjoy it for myriad reasons, and part of the reason I want something like a Gyrodec is very similar to the watch thing. It’s a genuine thing of beauty. Plus I firmly believe in the ‘active listening’ theory of why music is more meaningful with analogue formats, particularly vinyl. -
You-can-call-me-kal 22,382 posts
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Registered 15 years agoAs lovely as that VPI is, I would genuinely prefer an LP12. I just think it’s design perfection (in black ash). -
You-can-call-me-kal 22,382 posts
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Registered 15 years agoArmoured_Bear wrote:
Thats the active listening theory. It’s definitely a thing. The whole ritual association with putting on a record then setting there with the artwork and lyrics while you listen. It changes the way you enjoy the music.
gamingdave wrote:
Haha.
Armoured_Bear wrote:
Despite what I just wrote, if I won the lottery, I would buy one of those tomorrow
I'd love a VPI HW-40
Allegedly, despite analogue having limitations, the distortion produced seems to be more pleasing on the ear compared to digital, simple explanation here.
I think that may play a role, I get quite a bit out of album art, lyric sheet, aesthetics and the act of playing a record as well as enjoying the sound hugely. -
monkman76 17,762 posts
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Registered 13 years agoI think I'd get most pleasure from listening to my £200 turntable while cradling my stash of 180 crisp tenners. -
You-can-call-me-kal 22,382 posts
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Registered 15 years agoThere’s also the theory that it makes more sense to spend £2k on a record cleaning machine than a turntable. -
Your-Mother 6,272 posts
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Registered 4 years agoSave yourself the money and wipe it off with the edge of your t shirt. -
Armoured_Bear 29,488 posts
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Registered 9 years agoYou-can-call-me-kal wrote:
That's a case where I wonder how much better a 2K cleaning machine cleans than the Okki Nokki. It's nice to be on the other side of the argument
There’s also the theory that it makes more sense to spend £2k on a record cleaning machine than a turntable. -
fontgeeksogood 12,059 posts
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Registered 3 years agoI never would have guessed ecosse is an audiophile -
quadfather 37,970 posts
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Registered 11 years agoIronically it's the flaws of vinyl that make it a .....I'll just say "different" experience so we don't have to do that silly conversation
Kal, that setup you're looking at - its for listening and you're going for a pure setup yeah? I.e. no mixers etc bottlenecking it? -
You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
This is definitely true. Making a concerted choice that will require turning over at some point is part of the thing too, one has to listen to make sure the record has finished and it requires immediate action.
Plus I firmly believe in the ‘active listening’ theory of why music is more meaningful with analogue formats, particularly vinyl.
I will say in the LP debate, I was playing a Black Uhuru 12" yesterday and the bass was thick and redolent. It had something I have rarely if ever heard with a digital style.
None of this is scientific, of course. -
Armoured_Bear 29,488 posts
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Registered 9 years agofontgeeksogood wrote:
I'm just someone who loves music.
I never would have guessed ecosse is an audiophile -
You-can-call-me-kal 22,382 posts
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Registered 15 years agoquadfather wrote:
Yeah.
Ironically it's the flaws of vinyl that make it a .....I'll just say "different" experience so we don't have to do that silly conversation
Kal, that setup you're looking at - its for listening and you're going for a pure setup yeah? I.e. no mixers etc bottlenecking it? -
Tomo 18,849 posts
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Registered 18 years agoTalking about sound fetishes... This is fucking cool:
Can You Hear the Difference Between Cheap and Expensive Pianos?
I struggled once it gets to the $250k piano, but up to then, they sound remarkably different. -
gamingdave 5,036 posts
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Registered 17 years agoYou-can-call-me-kal wrote:
I don't disagree with any of that. Looking at the sleeve notes, and soaking in the album as a whole is different from having Spotify on shuffle. One is listening to and appreciating an album, another is just having music on. Taking a record out of its sleeve and placing it on a beautiful turntable just adds to the experience.
@gamingdave
Yeah I accepted a while ago that vinyl fetishising is exactly that - a fetish. It’s certainly not about accuracy in the vast majority of cases and in all honesty my digital chain will probably still sound better than my analogue one even once I’ve got my new fancy deck.
But like you I enjoy it for myriad reasons, and part of the reason I want something like a Gyrodec is very similar to the watch thing. It’s a genuine thing of beauty. Plus I firmly believe in the ‘active listening’ theory of why music is more meaningful with analogue formats, particularly vinyl.
I did find myself yesterday listening to something digitally whilst looking at the vinyl though. Had walked in the house so simply took out my headphones and connected my Fiio to the amp so I could just carry on. Then grabbed the album to read the booklet that came with it -
OnlyJoeKing 1,223 posts
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Registered 9 years agoSo, some noobtastic first impressions of the FiiO K3:
- It’s a nice object
- It’s quite hard to tell the difference between the sound straight from my motherboard and this
- But I do think it sounds a bit better – hard to put your finger on, but maybe the motherboard sound comes across ever so slightly flat compared to this. It has maybe a touch more pop, more depth. But then, maybe I have just been reading too many dribbling audio tech reviews which say things like ‘personable’ sound
- BUT – the girlfriend agreed that it sounds better. Though she may have just been trying to change the subject as soon as possible…
So, on balance I do think it’s a slight improvement? My headphones are apparently quite easy to drive tbf, and my motherboard audio is apparently pretty decent, so I wasn’t expecting night and day. There are some undeniable positives though:
- No hissing noise, even at high volumes, so a vast improvement from my speakers' passthrough headphone jack – problem solved.
- It has a bass boost switch, which is great fun. For this alone I am definitely keeping it!
- It apparently works quite well with android phones, so maybe one day I’ll grab a USB-C to USB-C cable and take that lovely bass boost to work. I bet the ladies love a bit of sweet, portable audio tech.
- It’s not a £15,000 turntable…… jesus fucking christ -
You-can-call-me-kal 22,382 posts
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Registered 15 years agoGetting rid of background noise with headphones is kind of a big deal. At the absolute top end of headphone amps it’s all about black backgrounds. Apart from that you might notice more musical detail with different types of music. -
I wasn't a believer until I bought $10k per meter speaker cable. Now, not only can I hear when the third cellist breaks wind, I can tell what they had for lunch
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