Audiophiles unite Page 31

  • You-can-call-me-kal 14 Oct 2019 15:44:14 17,917 posts
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    As with all of these things ymmv. But just so you know a couple of grand is still very much considered Ďlow endí with these things, especially for an all in one table. You can get cartridges alone that cost tens of thousands of pounds.
  • SnackPlissken 14 Oct 2019 15:49:20 1,336 posts
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    monkman76 wrote:
    Christ on a bike. What differentiates a £2000 turntable from a £200 one?

    /joins Higgy's revolution
    You still need decent speakers and an amp.. buying a good turntable with budget speakers/amp won't cut it.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 14 Oct 2019 15:52:46 17,917 posts
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    And a decent preamp :)

    And decent cables. And the right shape room. And sound proofing. And the right kind of floor. And curtains.
  • fontgeeksogood 14 Oct 2019 16:07:22 7,565 posts
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    And the white Blu Tac - it has better vibration reduction than the blue kind
  • Your-Mother 14 Oct 2019 16:19:07 3,225 posts
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    Or just Spotify and AirPods am I right
  • mrpon 14 Oct 2019 16:23:50 35,575 posts
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    Or an ear candling session!
  • fontgeeksogood 14 Oct 2019 16:25:13 7,565 posts
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    Jade eggs
  • You-can-call-me-kal 14 Oct 2019 17:00:55 17,917 posts
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    FWIW while diminishing returns is a huge thing with audiophile stuff, I think you can spend a lot more than a few grand before you get to that point.

    I.E. Iím absolutely certain that anyone would hear a very big difference between a £2k turntable and a £200 turntable (assuming all the other components were also up to scratch).
  • Armoured_Bear 14 Oct 2019 17:37:41 27,514 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    Ok, so the new turntable hunt.

    Iíll get my bonus at the end of January so it sort of depends how juicy that is. But thereís a few contenders.

    At the bottom end thereís a Marantz tt15s1. Advantages are itís an all in one plug and play and all the components are pretty good, especially the cart which costs £900 or so just on its own, so itís very good value. Con is itís not very upgradeable.

    Similarly thereís the Avid Ingenium which is also an all in one and I really like the Avid sound, but again, kind of no upgrade path.

    If the bonus is juicy and I save hard things get a bit more interesting. Thereís the classic Michell Gyrodec which I absolutely love. Thereís the Avid Diva II which again I like the Avid sound. Thereís the Rega P8 which I kind of hate the design of but is a great deck in that price range. And various other things of interest, but itís the Michell I think Iím most into, ideally with an SME309.

    And thereís also the turntable Iíve wanted for maybe 30 years which is the LP12. I could potentially just about stretch maybe to the base model. But Iím aware they are an absolute ball ache in maintenance and servicing and I think it would be a terrible choice for me. But Iíll always want one.
    Two turntables that I always fancied but sadly never bought are the Nottingham Analogue Spacedeck and the Gyrodec, still looks gorgeous. I was always put off the LP12 with the amount of maintenance required which I cab with.

    I'd love a VPI HW-40
  • Armoured_Bear 14 Oct 2019 17:38:29 27,514 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    FWIW while diminishing returns is a huge thing with audiophile stuff, I think you can spend a lot more than a few grand before you get to that point.

    I.E. Iím absolutely certain that anyone would hear a very big difference between a £2k turntable and a £200 turntable (assuming all the other components were also up to scratch).
    Without a doubt.
  • gamingdave 14 Oct 2019 17:48:43 4,833 posts
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    I'm (relatively) certain most people could hear a difference between multiple £200 and multiple £2,000 turntables. But when it comes to vinyl, I really do find "better" is highly subjective.

    Vinyl isn't "accurate", it needs to have the RIAA curve applied to it first, and different pre-amps will do that very slightly differently. Different cartridges and stylus may pick up tiny differences too.

    If you want accurate, what was recorded and mastered by the engineer, then go digital.

    Unless the vinyl has been cut on a completely analogue lathe (most aren't), from a master coming out of an all analogue recording desk (most aren't) and using only analogue instruments and other equipment (compressors, delays, chorus) then you are just getting an inaccurate version of the master file.

    If it's been recorded on a digital desk, then really, you want a digital file. Even if it's been all analogue in the chain, a high quality conversion to digital really will loose nothing.

    The "sound" of vinyl comes from its imperfections, so (to me at least) if someone prefers one deck over another it's not because it's better, it just suits the sound signature you prefer. And funnily enough, whilst audiophiles sneer at it, if that's what you want, to colour the sound to preference by combining components, then get an extensive EQ in your chain.

    Of course, that's not the sole point of vinyl, I love it for a myriad of reasons, including the sound, but don't see (and have never heard) a reason to upgrade from my 25 year old 1210s

    Not judging you for wanting to spend that much, I have a box full of vintage watches, I get hobbies buying things worth more than their constituent parts, or where something cheaper achieves the same (but not your) goal. And if that special deck adds to the enjoyment of collecting and listening to music, go for it!
  • gamingdave 14 Oct 2019 17:50:17 4,833 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    I'd love a VPI HW-40
    Despite what I just wrote, if I won the lottery, I would buy one of those tomorrow :D
  • Armoured_Bear 14 Oct 2019 17:55:59 27,514 posts
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    gamingdave wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    I'd love a VPI HW-40
    Despite what I just wrote, if I won the lottery, I would buy one of those tomorrow :D
    Haha.

    Allegedly, despite analogue having limitations, the distortion produced seems to be more pleasing on the ear compared to digital, simple explanation here.
    I think that may play a role, I get quite a bit out of album art, lyric sheet, aesthetics and the act of playing a record as well as enjoying the sound hugely.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 14 Oct 2019 18:16:40 17,917 posts
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    @gamingdave

    Yeah I accepted a while ago that vinyl fetishising is exactly that - a fetish. Itís certainly not about accuracy in the vast majority of cases and in all honesty my digital chain will probably still sound better than my analogue one even once Iíve got my new fancy deck.

    But like you I enjoy it for myriad reasons, and part of the reason I want something like a Gyrodec is very similar to the watch thing. Itís a genuine thing of beauty. Plus I firmly believe in the Ďactive listeningí theory of why music is more meaningful with analogue formats, particularly vinyl.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 14 Oct 2019 18:19:49 17,917 posts
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    As lovely as that VPI is, I would genuinely prefer an LP12. I just think itís design perfection (in black ash).
  • You-can-call-me-kal 14 Oct 2019 18:21:33 17,917 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    gamingdave wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    I'd love a VPI HW-40
    Despite what I just wrote, if I won the lottery, I would buy one of those tomorrow :D
    Haha.

    Allegedly, despite analogue having limitations, the distortion produced seems to be more pleasing on the ear compared to digital, simple explanation here.
    I think that may play a role, I get quite a bit out of album art, lyric sheet, aesthetics and the act of playing a record as well as enjoying the sound hugely.
    Thats the active listening theory. Itís definitely a thing. The whole ritual association with putting on a record then setting there with the artwork and lyrics while you listen. It changes the way you enjoy the music.
  • monkman76 14 Oct 2019 18:24:53 15,362 posts
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    I think I'd get most pleasure from listening to my £200 turntable while cradling my stash of 180 crisp tenners.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 14 Oct 2019 18:32:43 17,917 posts
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    Thereís also the theory that it makes more sense to spend £2k on a record cleaning machine than a turntable.
  • Your-Mother 14 Oct 2019 18:37:00 3,225 posts
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    Save yourself the money and wipe it off with the edge of your t shirt.
  • Armoured_Bear 14 Oct 2019 18:38:34 27,514 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    Thereís also the theory that it makes more sense to spend £2k on a record cleaning machine than a turntable.
    That's a case where I wonder how much better a 2K cleaning machine cleans than the Okki Nokki. It's nice to be on the other side of the argument :)
  • fontgeeksogood 14 Oct 2019 18:43:08 7,565 posts
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    I never would have guessed ecosse is an audiophile
  • quadfather 14 Oct 2019 18:44:07 35,260 posts
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    Ironically it's the flaws of vinyl that make it a .....I'll just say "different" experience so we don't have to do that silly conversation :)

    Kal, that setup you're looking at - its for listening and you're going for a pure setup yeah? I.e. no mixers etc bottlenecking it?
  • Mr_Sleep 14 Oct 2019 19:14:42 22,908 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    Plus I firmly believe in the Ďactive listeningí theory of why music is more meaningful with analogue formats, particularly vinyl.
    This is definitely true. Making a concerted choice that will require turning over at some point is part of the thing too, one has to listen to make sure the record has finished and it requires immediate action.

    I will say in the LP debate, I was playing a Black Uhuru 12" yesterday and the bass was thick and redolent. It had something I have rarely if ever heard with a digital style.

    None of this is scientific, of course.
  • Armoured_Bear 14 Oct 2019 19:16:19 27,514 posts
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    fontgeeksogood wrote:
    I never would have guessed ecosse is an audiophile
    I'm just someone who loves music.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 14 Oct 2019 19:20:15 17,917 posts
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    quadfather wrote:
    Ironically it's the flaws of vinyl that make it a .....I'll just say "different" experience so we don't have to do that silly conversation :)

    Kal, that setup you're looking at - its for listening and you're going for a pure setup yeah? I.e. no mixers etc bottlenecking it?
    Yeah.
  • Tomo 14 Oct 2019 19:26:43 17,039 posts
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    Talking about sound fetishes... This is fucking cool:

    Can You Hear the Difference Between Cheap and Expensive Pianos?

    I struggled once it gets to the $250k piano, but up to then, they sound remarkably different.
  • gamingdave 14 Oct 2019 19:52:29 4,833 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    @gamingdave

    Yeah I accepted a while ago that vinyl fetishising is exactly that - a fetish. Itís certainly not about accuracy in the vast majority of cases and in all honesty my digital chain will probably still sound better than my analogue one even once Iíve got my new fancy deck.

    But like you I enjoy it for myriad reasons, and part of the reason I want something like a Gyrodec is very similar to the watch thing. Itís a genuine thing of beauty. Plus I firmly believe in the Ďactive listeningí theory of why music is more meaningful with analogue formats, particularly vinyl.
    I don't disagree with any of that. Looking at the sleeve notes, and soaking in the album as a whole is different from having Spotify on shuffle. One is listening to and appreciating an album, another is just having music on. Taking a record out of its sleeve and placing it on a beautiful turntable just adds to the experience.

    I did find myself yesterday listening to something digitally whilst looking at the vinyl though. Had walked in the house so simply took out my headphones and connected my Fiio to the amp so I could just carry on. Then grabbed the album to read the booklet that came with it :D
  • OnlyJoeKing 14 Oct 2019 21:35:53 1,006 posts
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    So, some noobtastic first impressions of the FiiO K3:

    - Itís a nice object

    - Itís quite hard to tell the difference between the sound straight from my motherboard and this

    - But I do think it sounds a bit better Ė hard to put your finger on, but maybe the motherboard sound comes across ever so slightly flat compared to this. It has maybe a touch more pop, more depth. But then, maybe I have just been reading too many dribbling audio tech reviews which say things like Ďpersonableí sound

    - BUT Ė the girlfriend agreed that it sounds better. Though she may have just been trying to change the subject as soon as possibleÖ

    So, on balance I do think itís a slight improvement? My headphones are apparently quite easy to drive tbf, and my motherboard audio is apparently pretty decent, so I wasnít expecting night and day. There are some undeniable positives though:

    - No hissing noise, even at high volumes, so a vast improvement from my speakers' passthrough headphone jack Ė problem solved.

    - It has a bass boost switch, which is great fun. For this alone I am definitely keeping it!

    - It apparently works quite well with android phones, so maybe one day Iíll grab a USB-C to USB-C cable and take that lovely bass boost to work. I bet the ladies love a bit of sweet, portable audio tech.

    - Itís not a £15,000 turntableÖÖ jesus fucking christ
  • You-can-call-me-kal 14 Oct 2019 21:56:22 17,917 posts
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    Getting rid of background noise with headphones is kind of a big deal. At the absolute top end of headphone amps itís all about black backgrounds. Apart from that you might notice more musical detail with different types of music.
  • fontgeeksogood 14 Oct 2019 22:03:01 7,565 posts
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    I wasn't a believer until I bought $10k per meter speaker cable. Now, not only can I hear when the third cellist breaks wind, I can tell what they had for lunch
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