Kew1Melon wrote:lucky bastard. I'm at work and have no work to do. I feel like I've been sitting here for about a week |
The hypocrisy of this MMO community. • Page 3
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Rusty_M 7,172 posts
Seen 3 days ago
Registered 14 years ago -
aros 4,260 posts
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Registered 15 years ago"Cheap or Free does not guarantee quality. " Lost focus on your nonsense at that line as I realised it was a wind up. Is there anyone in the world who think free indicates quality? -
magicpanda 15,130 posts
Seen 12 hours ago
Registered 17 years ago0Authority wrote:
Edit: Will re-edit accordingly as I can't be bothered to do that now.
Societies deserve to have what they have - you deserve the police you have, you deserve the government you have, you deserve the politicians you have. Same thing with games.
Let us now have a closer look at the F2P market since it is the dominant force right now. The F2P supporters have always claimed that most people that play F2P are unemployed or low on income. That has been their thesis since the first day to draw more crowd away from the subscription model. "10-15 dollars a month is too much and most people given these circumstances cannot afford it", "You don't have to pay 10-15 dollars per month anymore to access the full game", "Forget subscription. It is dead" were positions widely accepted and commonly shared.
Considering how attractive and profitable the F2P model has become, if their positions were true or bared any truth that mean that since most are not unable to pay a sub on that amount then that meant most would not be able to pay any money on a F2P MMO. If we follow now the chain on this logic and translate it to numbers and thus percentages, it would mean that a 10% percent of the market, the "whale culture" as the industry calls them, would be enough to fund each F2P MMO.
However that whale culture would have to spend enough to cover monthly costs (all employees wages and payrolls, maintenance, technicians, customer support assistant, developers, servers, ect) which is not true. And it is not true because we do already know that every 1 out of 2 players gives a X amount of dollars per month and interesting enough (who would have thought eh?) that same player will definitely spend more money on a F2P game yearly than he would have spend on a subscription MMO.
It is also a given fact that mainly in Europe and NA, F2P MMOrpgs have got extremely low population. "Dead servers", "Ghost towns", "Full of hackers, bots and goldsellers" is indeed not only a very common perception but it has started to become an expectation of the free-to-play industry. Regardless of that and taken into account the revenues of the F2P sphere of influence, it is a logical fallacy to believe that a few "whales" in all F2P MMOrpgs are not only millionaires and billionaires but the primarily force for covering every single's F2P MMOrpg daily, monthly and yearly costs and hence the multi-million/billion empire.
I like scat porn.
As far as the demographics of this F2P playerbase, the information is simple and clear; the majority is not unemployed or on low income; the majority or alternatively "casuals" are usually family-oriented or workaholic individuals who do not have enough time to invest on a hardcore content driver MMO, and prefer to spend a few hours here and there on a standard F2P game.
In addition, I personally do not know millions or billions of unemployed or low-on-income players who can afford to maintain a medium-gaming ring including hidden costs (electricity, ect) but not afford a 10-15 payment per month on a sub-MMO.
So who the hell is this apparent vocal minority of not being able to afford a monthly sub?
They are freeriders and freeloaders, the jumping-wagon crowd that jumps from one MMO to another MMO within the first month hence the massive exodus that is apparent these days; they are the so called "jumpers". As it stands, this vocal minority is nothing more than a plague of constant leeches who expect others to sacrifice their own income so they can play anything for free without ever giving a dime back. Until they leave and go to the next F2P game and repeat.
More than usual you find this very verbal and vocal minority when a large amount legitimate paying customers or MMO veterans complain about the design of an apparently "Free to play" model which is 9 out of 10 not free, and more specifically freemium or Pay to win in hardcore gamers term. What is an irony though, is that these non-paying gamers always make an effort to stigmatize the paying gamers are
"gamers that do not want to pay anything and expect everything for free and expect Developers to work for free".
Next time you meet them ask them this question - "Why don't you start paying that much for once and support your beloved Developer that works extremely hard as well as its staff?" Since their position is that games are not free, then they should start putting money where their mouth is and in fact be the first ones to do so.
F2P culture apart from the evidently ridiculous community of rude kids, full-mouth brats and teenagers, it has got also negative side effects to the MMO scene as a whole. And here I explain it clearly,
Calling ALL Developers - Your games are Sub-par
Short version - If you do not support models of business that respect customers and give you full access of the game, you know FULL game, instead of hiding it behind paypals and paywalls; unlike great business models such as the one in League of Legends and Guild Wars 2 or any other MMO where cash shop only sells cosmetics, stop bitching and moaning about the state of MMOs because you are the exact reason about that state.
I have been playing MMOrpgs for 17 years now. I have invested in many time, effort, money, endless grind, top PVP or PVE player, hardcore or casual, Subscription/F2P/Freemium/B2P and you name it. I am a complete veteran of this genre.
This year and the previous one has been the worst year for this genre. Definitely the worse because instead of having MMOs trying to compete with the big players on the market such as World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy: A realm reborn, WildStar, Destiny, Blade & Soul, Phantasy Star Online 2 and Star Citizen and Kingdom Under Fire II we have games trying to compete with who is the more niche and how fast they can gain revenue by exploiting that niche market.
Let us have a look - Age of Wushu, Archlord 2, C9, Dragon Nest , Guild Wars 2, Firefall, Lord of the Rings, NeverWinter, Rift, Star Wars: The old republic, Swordsman Online, Tera Rising, The Secret World, Warframe and the list never drops. In fact, there are tons of F2P MMOrpgs and the problem is not that F2P exists as a business model, an alternative one to a subscription but the culture itself.
Cheap or Free does not guarantee quality. Anything good needs cash or some type of a strong long run investment. Period.
We all knew what would happen when Free 2 Play came around and mostly MMOers from the new age, were so passionate about the idea of FREE as if it meant FREEDOM and the whole mainstream press was embracing something in the same lines. What is ironical though is that the same press and new MMoers alike are steadily reaching the same conclusion - they are all reaching the same wall that old MMOers reached when the MMO market was stuck in the World of Warcraft era.
"We are bored. We need more. We want more".
And the consequences?
Reverse engineering - Instead of progressing forward to a more complete and unified MMOrpg genre it has dissected that genre into snacks and bites with incomplete PVE & PVP and hidden content through paywalls and paypals. Every single Free 2 Play MMOrpg right now is incomplete and lacks usually basic tools such as a good group finder. Progression has been backwards and that is exactly why we have got so many with disgusting graphics, generic character customization, unpolished combat and animations and bad level designs and environments. In all fronts, from story to gameplay, the F2P market will make sure that there is always going to be a core expectation missing in order to build up hype for the next generation of gamers.
Short life span - In every crisis or stale period, there are opportunities that whoever is the fastest and the smarter hits gold. Some MMOrpgs are good at doing that - filling up a hole through that particular period of stagnation; by taking advantage of the thirst of a niche MMO crowd such as the Lineage crowd with ArcheAge. Companies right now will not allow for complete MMOs to appear because there is no need to because the market is not at a good state nor competitive and there are way too many gaps.
Pipe dream – Option is good but it is not always good; when the minority dominates the majority that is unhealthy by default. Once one good subscription MMOrpg fulfils the gap in the market, the rest will get wiped, studios will close downs, jobs will be lost and so on and so forth. And there are two huge gaps - making a more refined MMOrpg of the past and making a more refined MMOrpg of that specific theme. If right now someone released the closest thing to a Skyrim multiplayer, ESO Online would go bankrupt.
Hideous purpose – F2P is all about money. Not just about money or some money. And the evidence comes from the very nature of the model ; you are just a free to play player from them; someone that plays their game for free; they do not have to listen to you, take your constructive criticism seriously; you have no authority or influence whatsoever; you are not entitled to anything. Pay2Win elements are often and if you dare to raise a voice you should not because you are not entitled to since you don’t pay money to the game. Hence you should be thankful to the “whales” to spend allot of money so you can play still play that game and still play it for free. And most importantly, regardless of how much money they make, they will never rival with the quality of a sub-based MMOrpg and it is pretty self-explanatory on why that is happening.
No expectations – That is right. Since you do not pay for anything you cannot expect anything. Standards can be as low as possible, the game can be as average as possible, customer service can be as non-existent as possible, floods of bots, goldsellers, spammers and hackers can be as big as possible, technical mess with high lag and spikes can be as often as possible and servers can be as ghost towns as possible. As long as the “whales” spend more money, have a reason to, everything else is irrelevant.
Forceful Adaptation – When you have no options because there is a lack of competition, you are forced to adapt. If you think Star Wars is the worst Star Wars, you will still play it because there is no other Star Wars to play. That creates a culture of taking breaks and painfully playing an MMO for the sake of being an MMO or due to boredom.
This has been one of the most ludicrous (for the business), subpar (for the genre) and ridiculous state of gaming where manipulative products of P2W dominate. This is like Steam flooded with indie games to justify that PC gaming is doing good and it still has the most exclusive titles when in reality most of them are byproducts of easy, cheap and intentionally lazy development. And in that respect, MMOs have become moneycash grabbing scheme like a bad Kickstarter project.
They will never attract millions of players because they don't deserve to attract millions of players. They are not that good and they do not want to be that good either. The intention of F2P MMOrpgs is not to make a great and complete MMOrpg experience but to cater to a niche and identify the whales which in turns become a money-grabbing marathon. That is why there is no loyalty from the playerbase. That is why they are not sub-based because they can never have many subs. There not again not that good and they can flood the market just like that.
We need competition because competition drives quality.
That is my argument and right now quality is secondary. Without competition, there are no standards, everything goes, there are no expectations. The culture behind F2P is a backward step.
No one else apart from you is responsible for this sub-par quantity and quality.
Edited by magicpanda at 14:19:46 25-07-2014 -
Kew1Melon 487 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 10 years agoRusty_M wrote:
Know them feels. This week has been the longest of my life. Design work, but the boring kind. Where Helvetica has been my best friend.
Kew1Melon wrote:
lucky bastard. I'm at work and have no work to do. I feel like I've been sitting here for about a week
Shikasama wrote:
I think I'd rather work than read that, in fact I'm supposed to be working. Oops.
Better than work -
Kew1Melon 487 posts
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Registered 10 years ago -
Rusty_M 7,172 posts
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Registered 14 years agoKew1Melon wrote:
I'm tier1 IT, and have only been in the office two days this week. I'm busier at home (where I can't do anything for my job yet they call it working from home)
Rusty_M wrote:
Know them feels. This week has been the longest of my life. Design work, but the boring kind. Where Helvetica has been my best friend.
Kew1Melon wrote:
lucky bastard. I'm at work and have no work to do. I feel like I've been sitting here for about a week
Shikasama wrote:
I think I'd rather work than read that, in fact I'm supposed to be working. Oops.
Better than work
Can't wait for my redundancy and new job. -
Kew1Melon 487 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 10 years agoRusty_M wrote:
Wish they'd let me work from home, especially in this weather. Set up laptop outside and get shit done with a cold one. Would definitely be in a better mind set. Being trapped in a large oven surrounded by little ovens isn't exactly my preferred working condition!
Kew1Melon wrote:
I'm tier1 IT, and have only been in the office two days this week. I'm busier at home (where I can't do anything for my job yet they call it working from home)
Rusty_M wrote:
Know them feels. This week has been the longest of my life. Design work, but the boring kind. Where Helvetica has been my best friend.
Kew1Melon wrote:
lucky bastard. I'm at work and have no work to do. I feel like I've been sitting here for about a week
Shikasama wrote:
I think I'd rather work than read that, in fact I'm supposed to be working. Oops.
Better than work
Can't wait for my redundancy and new job. -
Rusty_M 7,172 posts
Seen 3 days ago
Registered 14 years agoIt's even better when they tell you to work from home, but don't enable you to do work outside of the office. All I have to do is be available to come in on those days.
Much walking and gaming has been done.
My garden is shit, so I don't spend time there. -
Kew1Melon 487 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 10 years agoSlightly envious!
I'm lucky our garden is awfully nice, well tendered to too.
(Not by me, however!) On a brighter note, twenty mins of work to go then its the weekend. I can laze about in sun all I want, or end up inside on the game... -
0Authority 8 posts
Seen 7 years ago
Registered 7 years agoStranded87 wrote:
I thought Eurogamer was the intellectual forum of gaming. One would think.
I largely agree with the 'short version' of your OP which you tacked on at the end. I didn't read the long version, because really, do you even forum? An article that long on this subject would struggle even as a proper article, let alone the opening post to a forum thread by a new user.
That's about all I have to say, oh and I doubt anyone wants to read your book.
You'll go far here.
Didn't know it was an botspamfest with 23295353934 posts per user that can't type one sentence or can't read. One would think.
Maybe the name should be changed to Special Forum?
or
Maybe they are that offended that I am calling them cheap ass gamers that pay for low quality MMOs or don't pay at all and by that they shouldn't have any self-entitlement about the "current state of MMOs"?
Edited by 0Authority at 16:50:32 25-07-2014 -
Kew1Melon 487 posts
Seen 2 years ago
Registered 10 years ago0Authority wrote:
One would think, that when someone doesn't want to read your 50 shades of shite about MMO's you wouldn't get so butt hurt and attack forumites. Being new here and all I'm sure practically calling folk 'Special' is gunna help you settle in immediately. Not our fault its a boring as fuck read.
Stranded87 wrote:
I thought Eurogamer was the intellectual forum of gaming. One would think.
I largely agree with the 'short version' of your OP which you tacked on at the end. I didn't read the long version, because really, do you even forum? An article that long on this subject would struggle even as a proper article, let alone the opening post to a forum thread by a new user.
That's about all I have to say, oh and I doubt anyone wants to read your book.
You'll go far here.
Didn't know it was an botspamfest with 23295353934 posts per user that can't type one sentence or can't read. One would think.
Maybe the name should be changed to Special Forum?
Edited by Kew1Melon at 16:45:56 25-07-2014 -
Tryhard 12,014 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 11 years ago0Authority wrote:
I thought Eurogamer was the intellectual forum of gaming. One would think.
I think I might have pissed myself. -
RedPanda87 2,169 posts
Seen 3 days ago
Registered 14 years ago0Authority wrote:
Where to even start...not sure what the One would think is all about or where you got the idea that Eurogamer was 'the intellectual forum of gaming'. I assure you that most of the replies you've had aren't botspam either and as for not being able to type or read how about you sort out your grammar before accusing people of that.
Stranded87 wrote:
I thought Eurogamer was the intellectual forum of gaming. One would think.
I largely agree with the 'short version' of your OP which you tacked on at the end. I didn't read the long version, because really, do you even forum? An article that long on this subject would struggle even as a proper article, let alone the opening post to a forum thread by a new user.
That's about all I have to say, oh and I doubt anyone wants to read your book.
You'll go far here.
Didn't know it was an botspamfest with 23295353934 posts per user that can't type one sentence or can't read. One would think.
Maybe the name should be changed to Special Forum?
Anyway it's not about not being able to read, it's about not wanting to read a 2000+ word wall of text written in a condescending tone by someone who seems to think they're the foremost expert on the subject and doesn't seem interested in anything more than nods of approval. Brevity is a virtue.
Edited by Stranded87 at 16:55:39 25-07-2014 -
0Authority 8 posts
Seen 7 years ago
Registered 7 years agoKew1Melon wrote:
Being "new"? Do you think I am your property or something that I am obliged to submit to "veterans"?
0Authority wrote:
One would think, that when someone doesn't want to read your 50 shades of shite about MMO's you wouldn't get so butt hurt and attack forumites. Being new here and all I'm sure practically calling folk 'Special' is gunna help you settle in immediately. Not our fault its a boring as fuck read.
Stranded87 wrote:
I thought Eurogamer was the intellectual forum of gaming. One would think.
I largely agree with the 'short version' of your OP which you tacked on at the end. I didn't read the long version, because really, do you even forum? An article that long on this subject would struggle even as a proper article, let alone the opening post to a forum thread by a new user.
That's about all I have to say, oh and I doubt anyone wants to read your book.
You'll go far here.
Didn't know it was an botspamfest with 23295353934 posts per user that can't type one sentence or can't read. One would think.
Maybe the name should be changed to Special Forum?
Not my fault you are acting like special posters. Here is how not to be a special forum poster,
Don't copy paste irrelevant stuff
Don't post irrelevant memes/pictures
Don't go off topic
Don't spam irrelevant stuff
And by the way since reading is hard, I will make it short.
I am calling you cheap ass gamers that pay for low quality MMOs or don't pay at all and expect others to pay for you while at the same time you feel entitled to talk about the "current state of MMOs"; and virtually bitch and moan about everything.
Can you read that? One would think. -
0Authority 8 posts
Seen 7 years ago
Registered 7 years agoStranded87 wrote:
If you don't want to read or don't care, then don't post? Is that a difficult task? You know what is the first virtue? Thinking. Do that first.
0Authority wrote:
Where to even start...not sure what the One would think is all about or where you got the idea that Eurogamer was 'the intellectual forum of gaming'. I assure you that most of the replies you've had aren't botspam either and as for not being able to type or read how about you sort out your grammar before accusing people of that.
Stranded87 wrote:
I thought Eurogamer was the intellectual forum of gaming. One would think.
I largely agree with the 'short version' of your OP which you tacked on at the end. I didn't read the long version, because really, do you even forum? An article that long on this subject would struggle even as a proper article, let alone the opening post to a forum thread by a new user.
That's about all I have to say, oh and I doubt anyone wants to read your book.
You'll go far here.
Didn't know it was an botspamfest with 23295353934 posts per user that can't type one sentence or can't read. One would think.
Maybe the name should be changed to Special Forum?
Anyway it's not about not being able to read, it's about not wanting to read a 2000+ word wall of text written in a condescending tone by someone who seems to think they're the foremost expert on the subject and doesn't seem interested in anything more than nods of approval. Brevity is a virtue.
And you don't need an "expert" to tell you that 99.9% of F2P MMOrpgs are shit. Same shit the Steam has in the form of indies. -
RedPanda87 2,169 posts
Seen 3 days ago
Registered 14 years ago
You keep on using that phrase, I do not think it means what you think it means.
I am calling you cheap ass gamers that pay for low quality MMOs or don't pay at all and expect others to pay for you while at the same time you feel entitled to talk about the "current state of MMOs"; and virtually bitch and moan about everything.
Can you read that? One would think.
That aside I'm not a cheap ass gamer but I still take offence to your tone and attitude. I don't really play MMO's full stop any more because they're too much of a time sink but when I did I paid good money for them. Upfront boxed retail products, often with subscription fees. I don't do pay to win and I doubt many people here do.
Then again maybe that's not what you're getting at, I still haven't read the first post for obvious reasons.
Edited by Stranded87 at 17:10:32 25-07-2014 -
neilka 24,021 posts
Seen 4 hours ago
Registered 16 years ago
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Load_2.0 33,582 posts
Seen 8 hours ago
Registered 18 years agoYou are not obliged to do anything.
If you post an incoherent wall of text don't get your panties in a twist when people take the piss.
Enjoy the forum.
Though I suspect you are one of those annoying types that has posted the same drivel on several forums at once.
And by the way since reading is hard, I will make it short.
Get a blog. -
Load_2.0 33,582 posts
Seen 8 hours ago
Registered 18 years ago
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SomaticSense 15,062 posts
Seen 3 years ago
Registered 16 years agoThe best way to integrate with the rest of the EG forum:
a) Start with a wall of text rant
then
b) Act like a dick -
iancognito 2,476 posts
Seen 6 years ago
Registered 14 years agoI like the italic text but I also liked that guy who used uppercase to PROVE that the PS4 was REALLY a gaming PC. I don't know, something like that. Didn't know what he was on about. I don't know what I'm on about either. Some threads make that happen. -
neilka 24,021 posts
Seen 4 hours ago
Registered 16 years agoUse 0Authority enjoys hanging around the school gates at closing time. One would think. -
Tryhard 12,014 posts
Seen 4 years ago
Registered 11 years agoWe are rapidly falling down the intellectual gaming forum chart.
Sliding in at 69 as I type. -
iancognito 2,476 posts
Seen 6 years ago
Registered 14 years agoOne would think
Improv jazz poetry beat, please.
One would think
When you drink
One can flirt with a wink
Wash your genitals in the sink
If that's your kink
But she's gone before you blink
Never got time to find the pink
Never mind, have another drink
One would think
One would think -
Deckard1 wrote:
I now associate MMO communities with monkey's arseholes and monkeys shitting. There's no way back.
PPPPPPPPPPAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
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GameCriticDOTcoDOTuk 551 posts
Seen 11 months ago
Registered 7 years ago@0Authority
I agree with everything you are saying. I too as a newcomer think it's wrong that the veterans are allowed free reign to post absolute nonsense and derail a thread because they deem it of low grade use to themselves.
Your actual post was of the highest magnitude, unfortunately or fortunately, depending how one sees it, this site seems more geared to the casual community than the hardcore and pro gamers. I doubt there are many that put as much time and thought into their posts as you, as well as the countless hours of commitment to excel at a particular genre of videogame.
Hope you stick around, if you decide not to, it's perfectly understandable and I hope you find a community that embraces and values your valuable opinions. Appreciate your efforts here. Nothing worse than made to feel an outcast on the first day, but maybe in this situation it is a good thing. You don't want to have to mitigate yourself and bring yourself down to a level so far from you are no longer one's self. -
bobdebob 601 posts
Seen 6 years ago
Registered 10 years agoOne would think.
One think would.
Would one think.
Would think one.
Think one would.
Think would one. -
GameCriticDOTcoDOTuk wrote:
Interesting that two posters appear at the same time with similar writing styles and are entirely in agreement.
@0Authority
I agree with everything you are saying.
I think I might have pissed myself. 
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