Following Uber - good or bad? Page 14

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  • Goban 11 Jun 2019 14:57:03 9,982 posts
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    Interesting read
  • General_Martok 11 Jun 2019 15:19:35 823 posts
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    Tonka wrote:
    The definitive answer: not only are they bad. They're a fucking joke as well.


    These beliefs about Uber’s corporate value were created entirely out of thin air. This is not a case of a company with a reasonably sound operating business that has managed to inflate stock market expectations a bit. This is a case of a massive valuation that has no relationship to any economic fundamentals. Uber has no competitive efficiency advantages, operates in an industry with few barriers to entry, and has lost more than $14 billion in the previous four years.

    In reality, Uber’s platform does not include any technological breakthroughs, and Uber has done nothing to “disrupt” the eco­nomics of providing urban car services. What Uber has disrupted is the idea that competitive consumer and capital markets will maximize overall economic welfare by rewarding companies with superior efficiency. Its multibillion dollar subsidies completely distorted marketplace price and service signals, leading to a massive misallocation of resources. Uber’s most important innovation has been to produce staggering levels of private wealth without creating any sustainable benefits for consumers, workers, the cities they serve, or anyone else.
    There's more, so much more. Very enlightening read.
    https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2019/05/ubers-path-of-destruction/
    Sorry but just reading that quote the article smacks of bullshit. Doesn't include technological breakthroughs? So? It's a new business model that has been replicated multiple times in multiple industries.

    So it's either missing or ignoring Uber's key "innovation" just to suit the writers narrative.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 11 Jun 2019 15:23:39 16,702 posts
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    Yeah, the point about disruption and innovation is utter bollocks as well. There's obviously lots of bad things about Uber but at least give credit where it's due. The app is the absolute gold standard and has not only changed the way people engage with taxi type services, but has had implications for expectations of apps in every single conceivable sector. We literally talk about "Uberisation" because of the impact of that app.

    They've launched their electric bike service in London now and it's fucking brilliant.
  • Deleted user 11 June 2019 15:50:09
    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    Yeah, the point about disruption and innovation is utter bollocks as well. There's obviously lots of bad things about Uber but at least give credit where it's due. The app is the absolute gold standard and has not only changed the way people engage with taxi type services, but has had implications for expectations of apps in every single conceivable sector. We literally talk about "Uberisation" because of the impact of that app.

    They've launched their electric bike service in London now and it's fucking brilliant.
    If you read the article its main point is that uber has not solved any of the efficiency issues which traditional taxi companies have been struggling with for decades and their only move towards profitability has been squeezing drivers pay. Without solving these underlying issues the company will continue to leak money.

    Unlike other traditional market disruptors Uber doesn't have a profitable base underpinning it. The app may be the gold standard for usability but its easily copied.
  • Dirtbox 11 Jun 2019 15:53:56 91,187 posts
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    I get an uber or a lyft every other day, if the drivers are being squeezed, they don't seem to give a shit. Uniformly they all seem to earn more driving for those companies than they do in their day jobs. $40-$60 an hour isn't bad.
  • General_Martok 11 Jun 2019 16:04:52 823 posts
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    whatfruitlivesagain wrote:
    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    Yeah, the point about disruption and innovation is utter bollocks as well. There's obviously lots of bad things about Uber but at least give credit where it's due. The app is the absolute gold standard and has not only changed the way people engage with taxi type services, but has had implications for expectations of apps in every single conceivable sector. We literally talk about "Uberisation" because of the impact of that app.

    They've launched their electric bike service in London now and it's fucking brilliant.
    If you read the article its main point is that uber has not solved any of the efficiency issues which traditional taxi companies have been struggling with for decades and their only move towards profitability has been squeezing drivers pay. Without solving these underlying issues the company will continue to leak money.

    Unlike other traditional market disruptors Uber doesn't have a profitable base underpinning it. The app may be the gold standard for usability but its easily copied.
    But and they've been taken to court for this, Uber isn't a traditional taxi company so why are they comparing it to one?
  • Deleted user 11 June 2019 16:06:04
    Dirtbox wrote:
    I get an uber or a lyft every other day, if the drivers are being squeezed, they don't seem to give a shit. Uniformly they all seem to earn more driving for those companies than they do in their day jobs. $40-$60 an hour isn't bad.
    The issue is less Uber are paying their drivers shitty wages and more even after paying their drivers shitty wages they are still unprofitable and have failed to shift entrenched regional competitors in new markets e.g China, Russia etc.

    Unlike Amazon, Twitter or facebook which business base had a scale able routes to profitability the underlying business of uber does not make economic sense.
  • General_Martok 11 Jun 2019 16:07:59 823 posts
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    Do they say why Uber is unprofitable? Cause I'd bet my non existent hat that it's got nothing to do with what they pay drivers and everything to do with how much they're pouring into R&D for driverless shit, drones, etc...
  • Deleted user 11 June 2019 16:08:53
    General_Martok wrote:
    whatfruitlivesagain wrote:
    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    Yeah, the point about disruption and innovation is utter bollocks as well. There's obviously lots of bad things about Uber but at least give credit where it's due. The app is the absolute gold standard and has not only changed the way people engage with taxi type services, but has had implications for expectations of apps in every single conceivable sector. We literally talk about "Uberisation" because of the impact of that app.

    They've launched their electric bike service in London now and it's fucking brilliant.
    If you read the article its main point is that uber has not solved any of the efficiency issues which traditional taxi companies have been struggling with for decades and their only move towards profitability has been squeezing drivers pay. Without solving these underlying issues the company will continue to leak money.

    Unlike other traditional market disruptors Uber doesn't have a profitable base underpinning it. The app may be the gold standard for usability but its easily copied.
    But and they've been taken to court for this, Uber isn't a traditional taxi company so why are they comparing it to one?
    read the article I'm still reading it. While its legally convenient for Uber not to be deemed a taxi company it acts, behaves and carries out the work of one. An uber driver is a private hire driver.
  • senso-ji 11 Jun 2019 16:09:32 9,783 posts
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    Isn't Uber's endgame to provide an automated taxi service? They are just investing all their money in driverless right now and will just dump their current employees once robot cars are allowed on the roads.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 11 Jun 2019 16:11:37 16,702 posts
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    Again, not denying they're shit bags. But again, credit where it's due. To say they've done nothing innovative or disruptive is ludicrous. They are the benchmark case study for industry disruption. 'Uberisation' is literally an industry term now for disrupting an industry with an app. And saying they're easily copied is like not giving Pixar credit for 90% of CG animated films being Pixar style.
  • Goban 11 Jun 2019 16:15:34 9,982 posts
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    But they don't make any money and their current business model will not make money, according to the article.
  • TPReview 11 Jun 2019 16:17:18 1,377 posts
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    I think one of the big innovations of Uber is to make employement much more casual, whether that's a good thing or not is up for debate, but look at Uber, Lyft, Deliveroo, hardly anyone has it as their full time job, it's just something they do when they have time to make extra money. It's similar to the concept behind Airbnb, if you have a resource going to waste (time, property, a car) here's a way to make some money off it. Nearly every Uber driver I've had also has the Lyft app running and nearly every Deliveroo delivery person has an Ubereats bag with them.

    That's a pretty huge innovation and is changing the world for a lot of people in cities. It might not be just down to Uber but they've definitely been a part of it.
  • Deleted user 11 June 2019 16:18:25
    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    Again, not denying they're shit bags. But again, credit where it's due. To say they've done nothing innovative or disruptive is ludicrous. They are the benchmark case study for industry disruption. 'Uberisation' is literally an industry term now for disrupting an industry with an app. And saying they're easily copied is like not giving Pixar credit for 90% of CG animated films being Pixar style.
    Read the article i'm paraphrasing. The general idea is unlike a traditional market disruptor uber's foundations are built on sand rather than rock.

    Yes the financials dig into the research costs and discusses driver less cars (who says uber will be the first to invent them? ) but the underlying taxi business is losing billions as it has not solved private public transit market efficiency.

    I hate tech people their such cunts. Only they would use a word like Uberisation unironically. Why not deliverooed, Amzoned or Faceraped to death.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 11 Jun 2019 16:19:22 16,702 posts
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    Goban wrote:
    But they don't make any money and their current business model will not make money, according to the article.
    So they haven't done anything innovative or disruptive?

    They could sell their business for billions if they wanted. That's the silicon valley model. You don't need to actually be profitable.
  • Deleted user 11 June 2019 16:20:54
    TPReview wrote:
    I think one of the big innovations of Uber is to make employement much more casual, whether that's a good thing or not is up for debate, but look at Uber, Lyft, Deliveroo, hardly anyone has it as their full time job, it's just something they do when they have time to make extra money. It's similar to the concept behind Airbnb, if you have a resource going to waste (time, property, a car) here's a way to make some money off it. Nearly every Uber driver I've had also has the Lyft app running and nearly every Deliveroo delivery person has an Ubereats bag with them.

    That's a pretty huge innovation and is changing the world for a lot of people in cities. It might not be just down to Uber but they've definitely been a part of it.
    Are you from the gig economy ministry of propaganda? No sick, no benefits no guaranteed hours how come when Mike Ashley does it it's rampant exploitation but when its vegans in laptops its ok.
  • Goban 11 Jun 2019 16:25:26 9,982 posts
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    @You-can-call-me-kal
    I think the point is that the innovation doesn't really work for them as a company, the only way they can make money is by subsidising Taxi rides until they create a monopoly, then cut the amounts paid to drivers to try and save money until some undefined point in the future when they create the greatest self drive car ever.
    Innovative and disruptive in the fact that they created a good app, beyond that they are just at the same old subsidy/monopoly game.
  • Mr_Sleep 11 Jun 2019 16:26:41 22,771 posts
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    Google will probably get to driverless cars before anyone else.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 11 Jun 2019 16:29:18 16,702 posts
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    Goban wrote:
    @You-can-call-me-kal
    I think the point is that the innovation doesn't really work for them as a company, the only way they can make money is by subsidising Taxi rides until they create a monopoly, then cut the amounts paid to drivers to try and save money until some undefined point in the future when they create the greatest self drive car ever.
    Innovative and disruptive in the fact that they created a good app, beyond that they are just at the same old subsidy/monopoly game.
    They're playing a long game and while it's possible that they become the Friends Reunited of that industry (in that they create the disruption that shits behaviour that someone else then benefits from), my bet is there's so much value in that brand, that if their kill the competition model doesn't work, they will sell out to someone for a fortune.
  • senso-ji 11 Jun 2019 16:37:14 9,783 posts
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    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    Google will probably get to driverless cars before anyone else.
    Driverless cars already exist. We are now in the testing stage where the necessary data needs to be generated to convince governments to pass legislation to allow self driving cars on the road commercially.
  • Deleted user 11 June 2019 16:42:03
    senso-ji wrote:
    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    Google will probably get to driverless cars before anyone else.
    Driverless cars already exist. We are now in the testing stage where the necessary data needs to be generated to convince governments to pass legislation to allow self driving cars on the road commercially.
    If it wasn't for one man's love for America's got talent we might already have had them.
  • Dirtbox 11 Jun 2019 17:08:16 91,187 posts
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    TPReview wrote:
    I think one of the big innovations of Uber is to make employement much more casual, whether that's a good thing or not is up for debate, but look at Uber, Lyft, Deliveroo, hardly anyone has it as their full time job, it's just something they do when they have time to make extra money. It's similar to the concept behind Airbnb, if you have a resource going to waste (time, property, a car) here's a way to make some money off it. Nearly every Uber driver I've had also has the Lyft app running and nearly every Deliveroo delivery person has an Ubereats bag with them.

    That's a pretty huge innovation and is changing the world for a lot of people in cities. It might not be just down to Uber but they've definitely been a part of it.
    There are people who do it full time, but the majority are doing it at peak times to supplement their income. They would all happily do it all day every day if the customers where there, but it's saturated because there are so many people doing it.

    Edited by Dirtbox at 17:27:31 11-06-2019
  • Mr_Sleep 11 Jun 2019 17:13:19 22,771 posts
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    senso-ji wrote:
    Mr_Sleep wrote:
    Google will probably get to driverless cars before anyone else.
    Driverless cars already exist. We are now in the testing stage where the necessary data needs to be generated to convince governments to pass legislation to allow self driving cars on the road commercially.
    You are correct, my brief message was pretty crap. I heard an interesting thing about Google and captcha, apparently the service is being used by google to improve its driverless car AI spot traffic signs better. This why they have become more difficult over time as the AI is getting more sophisticated.
  • One_Vurfed_Gwrx 11 Jun 2019 20:14:30 3,564 posts
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    Nothing to do with the economics but I liked the decreased scam taxi driver risk in Eastern European countries by using Uber. Wish they had been around hen I travlled across most of Russia (I did quickly learn to book hotel taxi pickups though...)
  • Tonka 11 Jun 2019 20:31:56 29,759 posts
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    @One_Vurfed_Gwrx that is one thing that taxi apps has solved and one area where Ubers brand is worth something.

    Probably not enough to ever make them profitable though.
  • TPReview 11 Jun 2019 20:52:33 1,377 posts
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    @whatfruitlivesagain I was about to say I did make it clear I don't know if it's a good thing or not, but you referring to companies like Uber as 'vegans in laptops' shows you're not one that's going to listen are you? No one here is saying whether it's ethical or the best way forward, just that it's different and it's clearly working for some people. Lots of people are signing up to be drivers in their spare time and now in cities it's much cheaper and quicker to get about than using old-style taxis.
  • fontgeeksogood 11 Jun 2019 21:02:43 6,737 posts
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    senso-ji wrote:
    Isn't Uber's endgame to provide an automated taxi service? They are just investing all their money in driverless right now and will just dump their current employees once robot cars are allowed on the roads.
    The phrase that's used in disruptive markets is "fake it until you make it" and this is exactly what they're doing
  • Deleted user 12 June 2019 15:39:45
    @TPReview No worries I was just being a bit flippant with the vegans remark. Its the shroud of a perceived moral superiority these hyper capitalist companies shroud themselves in which irks me.
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