Following Darkest Dungeon Page 12

  • Mola_Ram 25 Feb 2018 05:15:20 17,953 posts
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    After attempting a few more Champion dungeons, I tend to agree that they're a much larger step up than Apprentice -> Veteran. I haven't lost anyone in them yet, but it's been a close call a couple of times.

    The unique enemies in them are just brutal. There's a giant in the Weald that can hit one of your guys for 30+ hit points each swing. Thankfully for me he kept targeting the Flagellant for some reason, so the massive damage didn't amount to much. But he could easily wipe out a whole party if you can't kill or stun him.
  • cs96and 25 Feb 2018 18:52:50 220 posts
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    @Mola_Ram That's where the Occultists damage reduction debuff becomes invaluable.
  • Mola_Ram 26 Feb 2018 12:53:51 17,953 posts
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    I agree, but still think that the Champion dungeons are a rather large difficulty spike. I've already lost more heroes in level 5 dungeons than the other two levels combined, mostly because of unlucky crits + bleed. And I'm not screwed because of that or anything, but yeah... it's just a big step up.

    It would be good if there was something in between Veteran and Champion. I don't think the game adequately prepares you for the harder dungeons.

    (yes, you could learn through dying continuously, but that's a sucky way to learn when you can't easily replace dead heroes)
  • Phattso 26 Feb 2018 13:05:30 23,313 posts
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    It's interesting to see you say all that, Mola_Ram, when much of last week was spent pointing and laughing at how shit I was at champion dungeons and I should stop complaining at the difficulty jump and git gud. ;-)

    It definitely feels like there needs to be something in between 3 and 5 (let's invent it now, let's call it '4' for convenience) because as it stands the rewards for running Level 5 don't go anywhere near justifying the risk. So I'm running Level 3 after Level 3 after Level 3 and finally asking myself: why bother? Is it so I can get a full set of reduce bleed trinkets for my team? A full set of resist blight? That's not under my control - am I just going to have to effectively net-deck the best loadouts?

    Hopefully there's a point coming where something will click for me, and I'll start having more success. But it's definitely a strange (and, I think, self defeating) jump up. The step from 1-3 was in no way as painful as 3-5, and I can't even contemplate 6.

    If it doesn't change, the game has more or less rendered itself redundant for me. I'm just running to accrue cash and trinkets with no realistic expectation of progress. Or so it seems.

    Time will tell. I definitely want to get it, and clearly it must be possible to progress because people have. Just not sure I'm down with 10 hours of grinding hoping for the right trinkets or whatever. Or maybe I am - I put a billion hours into Diablo after all.
  • Mola_Ram 26 Feb 2018 13:23:23 17,953 posts
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    I don't think I was pointing and laughing. I was trying to help. :(

    I was going from what my experience with them had been, which was not that bad for the most part. I still haven't had any party wipes, so that's good.

    But I agree that there should be something in between. Because the Champion levels really need an optimised party, and the game doesn't really prepare you for that.
  • cs96and 26 Feb 2018 13:25:45 220 posts
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    Just wait until you enter the Darkest Dungeon.
  • Phattso 26 Feb 2018 13:44:34 23,313 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    I don't think I was pointing and laughing. I was trying to help. :(
    I wasn't serious, dude. :)
  • Mola_Ram 26 Feb 2018 13:52:44 17,953 posts
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    Alright then! :p

    (if you really want to see "oh, you have trouble with *insert dungeon/boss fight*? I did it with a single Highwayman with 0 stress, I don't see what the big deal is" bullshit, go look on Gamefaqs or the Steam pages)

    But yes, broadly speaking (from my experience) you need to have solutions for healing and stress. I could get away with having no dedicated healer/stress healer in Apprentice or Veteran dungeons, but I can't imagine doing anything higher without a Vestal/Occultist/Jester/Houndmaster/Flagellant in the party.
  • Phattso 26 Feb 2018 13:57:09 23,313 posts
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    Boss? If only - I'm getting creamed by the minions. ;-)
  • Mola_Ram 26 Feb 2018 14:08:20 17,953 posts
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    The biggest difference for me is that the minions have much higher dodge and protection. So party buffs to Accuracy (say, from Jester or Man at Arms) are huge, as are bonuses to your own stuns and debuffs. The fights go on much longer regardless.

    But yeah, getting a couple of party wipes would add many hours to your playtime. I can see how that would be a thing. It's not like other roguelikes with less grind where you'd just start again from the beginning. You'd have to slowly build up again, and that could be torturous.
  • Phattso 26 Feb 2018 14:15:32 23,313 posts
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    Aye. Thankfully, like yourself, I've never had a party wipe from it. I've lost the odd bod here and there. For example I could've wept when my favourite Helion went - thankfully there was a town event where I could bring someone back from the dead! which made it a little easier to swallow. :)

    Losing my resolve 6 Crusader stung at first, but next in line as tank was my Flagellant who has been revelatory so it wasn't all bad! For sure I could be paying more attention to trinkets and buffs and debuffs, which is all on me. The UI doesn't exactly make it easy though, so ridiculously, I've found myself hovering on the Steam page for the game as a result. Must. Resist.
  • cs96and 28 Feb 2018 13:41:17 220 posts
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    Another one falls... I've beaten all the (non-Darkest Dungeon) bosses now! The Drowned Crew was an absolute bastard. After about 5 or 6 rounds I'd managed to chip a tiny bit of health off them, only for them to heal it all back again. I finally managed to beat them after about 40 rounds!

    Need to prepare for the third Darkest Dungeon quest now. It's 4 campfires long!
  • UncleLou Moderator 28 Feb 2018 13:52:08 39,514 posts
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    @Phattso FWIW, trinket management in particular is a pain on either platform. Slightly more manageable on the PC, but not a lot less tiresome.
  • Phattso 28 Feb 2018 13:56:35 23,313 posts
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    Ah. Both good to know and UTTERLY INFURIATING! :D

    What I don't want to do is just Wiki it and then MIN/MAX my builds. Guess I just need to knuckle down and do some actual experimentation. This is, after all, why I wanted to focus in on one game at a time. Time to walk the walk I guess.

    Sadly I've been too ill for the last week or so to play it at all. Every time I tried to focus on the tiny text my eyes would start streaming and I'd get a headache. Couldn't ever read it on my TV either, so have been without DD for too long. So frustrating to have some free time forced on me by circumstance but to be unable to use it.

    On the plus side, finished all the Just Cause 3 DLC. PC, installed to SSD, is the only way to play that one; amazing game Perfect Steam-linked sofa fodder for a sicky little chicky. :)
  • UncleLou Moderator 28 Feb 2018 14:30:12 39,514 posts
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    God yes. That's the most annoying thing about being ill. I actually had a pretty severe case of penumonia last year and was sick at home for 5 weeks, but wasn't able to make anything of that ridiculous amount of spare time for at least the first 3 weeks because I was so exhausted.
  • cs96and 1 Mar 2018 14:23:04 220 posts
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    cs96and wrote:
    Need to prepare for the third Darkest Dungeon quest now. It's 4 campfires long!
    Well my first attempt started off OK but soon turned into a disaster. The worst thing about it was that I had to get my trinkets back from the Shrieker again!
  • UncleLou Moderator 1 Mar 2018 14:26:21 39,514 posts
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    @cs96and Haha, yes, I am still not sure how the Shrieker "works" - does he just disappear after a few round, and you just have to survive them? I've fought him often enough, but I never looked it up or was quite sure how/why I beat him.
  • Mola_Ram 1 Mar 2018 20:46:24 17,953 posts
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    Yeah, what you said is pretty much it. It's very difficult to "kill" it the regular way, so waiting it out is probably the best option.
  • cs96and 2 Mar 2018 10:41:48 220 posts
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    I've never actually killed the shrieker or the nest. I just spam dodge buffs for 4 rounds, and then he flies off so you can retrieve your lost trinkets.
  • Mola_Ram 2 Mar 2018 10:50:57 17,953 posts
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    The nest is very killable, and you get things for doing it.

    So yeah, spam those dodge buffs, but get the characters not doing that to attack the nest.
  • cs96and 5 Mar 2018 13:08:27 220 posts
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    THEY CAN BE FELLED! THEY CAN BE BEATEN!

    I finally beat the last 2 Darkest Dungeon levels last night! An absolute fist pump of a moment as the final boss fell. It only took 184 weeks, but I got there in the end.

    A tip for anyone attempting the DD levels... send in some stagecoach meatbags first to give you some sort of idea what you will be up against. This worked particularly well for me on the last level, and I picked a great team due to my initial recon mission (Occultist, Crusader 2x Grave Robber). The grave robbers and the crusader were spamming Holy Lance/Lunge, knocking one of the others into position 3 in the process. Crusader was also providing the occasional stress heal. Occultist was mainly on healing duty, and the occasional debuf. In retrospect, I think a Vestal would have been better for her stun ability.

    Now, on to the Crimson Court...
  • INSOMANiAC 6 Mar 2018 18:25:21 4,477 posts
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    Just started this game, it's like a form of torture. Sexy torture.
  • -HairyArse 6 Mar 2018 18:42:57 1,118 posts
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    I love what Iíve played on Switch but I mainly use handheld mode, and, MY EYES.

    THAT FONT SIZE. 😧

    Edited by -HairyArse at 18:43:13 06-03-2018
  • Mr_Sleep 6 Mar 2018 19:34:55 21,766 posts
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    @cs96and well done chap. I meant to ask the other day if anyone has actually finished it as I never got close and getting close seemed nails to me.
  • INSOMANiAC 6 Mar 2018 19:51:14 4,477 posts
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    @-HairyArse I bought it on iPad and its good but being left handed my hand kept covering the text, I've just got it on switch, waiting an hour for it to actually download
  • cs96and 7 Mar 2018 12:42:13 220 posts
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    @Mr_Sleep The end-game did take quite a long time, but I love the game so much that it never got boring. The third Darkest Dungeon quest was particularly painful. You pretty much have to bring a Plague Doctor with you (for Blinding Gas) and I lost 2 of them on my first two attempts.

    I then tried to level-up a PD from 5 to 6 when when the collector turned up and wiped 2 of my squad (including the PD) before I could retreat. That meant I had to level one up from scratch which took ages.

    Crimson Court is interesting. It's not given me too much hassle so far. That crocodile is a bit of bastard though!
  • Mola_Ram 7 Mar 2018 12:50:11 17,953 posts
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    Yes, the crocodile is a cunt.

    I mostly like the expansion for the spice it adds to regular dungeons. The Crimson Curse really isn't that much of a hassle (except for the aforementioned time that I set my bounty hunter on fire), but imo it's a nice twist to the regular game.

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 13:18:05 07-03-2018
  • UncleLou Moderator 7 Mar 2018 13:00:51 39,514 posts
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    He is a cunt, but he's such a well designed boss.

    Just look at him dodge!


    SPOILER

    Edited by UncleLou at 13:01:09 07-03-2018
  • Dizzy 7 Mar 2018 14:13:23 3,647 posts
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    I restarted and doing MUCH better now. You really need to nurture your heroes from the beginning.
  • Phattso 8 Mar 2018 17:48:08 23,313 posts
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    I'm doing a lot better at Level 5 runs now. Still haven't attempted a boss at that level, but clearing a Scout quest is very much doable albeit often by the skin of my teeth.

    Hammering through the Level 3 bosses though, and have taken all but half a dozen classes to Resolve 6 now. I also have three very varied 'teams' that I'm cycling through, which is helping to open up my mind to the tactical opportunities.

    Accidentally enabled the Crimson Court (A/B confusion coming from the Xbox controller) so I have that tempting me in but there doesn't seem any point in engaging with that until I've bested the standard game. Opinions? Should I dip a toe in regardless? :)
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