Snooper's Charter - it's been passed • Non-Gaming • News and Politics • Eurogamer.net

RobAnybody 22 Oct 2015 11:09:40 2,892 posts
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A few links with some info on the new Investigatory Powers Bill which is likely to include the old Snoopers' Charter:

http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/2431499/the-snoopers-charter-welcome-back-old-friend

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/new-laws-to-allow-spies-to-hack-into-smartphones-and-computers-to-be-introduced-in-the-coming-weeks-a6702301.html

Open Rights Group Petition:

https://www.openrightsgroup.org/campaigns/dont-let-the-snoopers-charter-bounce-back

Rivuzu 22 Oct 2015 11:22:36 18,424 posts
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Playing devils advocate here but... is this necessarily as bad a thing as people are making out?

Deleted user 22 October 2015 11:24:16

doesn't bother me. worst thing they will find out is i am on EG more than working

oceanmotion 22 Oct 2015 11:31:39 17,358 posts
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You are being watched. The government has a secret system: a machine that spies on you every hour of every day.

I've always thought they have been doing whatever they like for years and this is just the legal side catching up. I'm not too fond of everyone is a suspect and the need for it, not like they've struggled up to this point so what is the reason for it and bad people can't possibly be that open when all this is known so what is the point. Also, back doors and such is the worst idea ever, doesn't work for one group, others will ask, others will find it and government security, yeah no thanks. Less info being shared and more encryption is safer for us all.

Rivuzu 22 Oct 2015 11:40:57 18,424 posts
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It'll never get through parliament though because too many back benchers are worried about all the kiddie porn they've got stored.

j66 22 Oct 2015 12:00:50 6,060 posts
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geeza2020 wrote:
Ugh. The attitude "if you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to worry about" absolutely disgusts me.

This. Sign of stunted thinking. But we're farmed to always believe that someone 'in authority' knows better. Harder to wriggle free than you'd think.

wrinkly 22 Oct 2015 12:04:00 3,721 posts
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I believe they have already infiltrated the Werthers Appreciation Society, we are taking steps to thwart this appalling threat to our freedom.

j66 22 Oct 2015 12:12:22 6,060 posts
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Freedom? You've been had. Try setting up as a Medicine Man on Dartmoor

magicpanda 22 Oct 2015 12:17:18 15,130 posts
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geeza2020 wrote:
Ugh. The attitude "if you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to worry about" absolutely distgusts me.

If you are not with us, you are against us.

Oh-Bollox 2 Nov 2015 00:36:41 6,513 posts
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So has it been knocked back then or has it just had the wording changed?

Deleted user 2 November 2015 00:38:30

Last I read it seemed like it is properly dead but I would be surprised if they try it on again.

sirtacos 2 Nov 2015 00:48:25 8,279 posts
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Rivuzu wrote:
Playing devils advocate here but... is this necessarily as bad a thing as people are making out?

Yes. Yes it is.

sirtacos 2 Nov 2015 00:53:38 8,279 posts
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Graxlar wrote:
doesn't bother me. worst thing they will find out is i am on EG more than working

You should be worried. Pernicious shit like this erodes everyone's rights. It's a dangerous precedent, just like any attempt to expand the state security apparatus.

mal 2 Nov 2015 01:29:51 29,326 posts
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Well, it's still called the IPA, and there's nothing in that to suggest it won't allow MI6 to hack your phone with the appropriate licenses - indeed, if they can't get the backdoors in they need to break into your comms, the next best way to get stuff is to be there before you encrypt it. But all they were talking about today was that without seeking any license they'll be able to see a list of all the servers you've talked to (or technically, all the hostnames you've accessed) in the past year, and presumably how often.

Really, today's news was purely led by government spin, as I don't think the text of this bill has been published yet (they're still talking about tweaking it), so it's not clear what is and isn't permitted except what we were allowed to find out about tonight. I'm sure there will be some more gotchas to come.

Dougs 2 Nov 2015 07:08:36 100,414 posts
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Yeah, they're just claiming a few concessions, such as not requiring interconnection records anymore.

Deleted user 2 November 2015 07:12:12

@mal MI's 5,6 GCHQ and others already have access.

Whizzo 2 Nov 2015 09:17:03 44,810 posts
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Usual bait and switch tactics, propose something incredibly ridiculous then back track and say they'll do something not quite as over the top and people breathe a sigh of relief over something they wouldn't have been happy about if they were the thing proposed in the first place.

Do they really think we're that fucking stupid?

Yes.

Load_2.0 2 Nov 2015 09:25:37 33,582 posts
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Came to post the exact same thing.

Oh OK well we won't install cameras in every house. Just complete freedom to access all your information at our discretion.

A victory for freedom!

Dirtbox 2 Nov 2015 09:30:41 92,595 posts
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Post deleted

Dougs 2 Nov 2015 09:56:34 100,414 posts
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http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/war/theresa-may-will-scroll-through-the-pictures-on-your-phone-20151102103475

Not-a-reviewer 2 Nov 2015 10:27:23 7,686 posts
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I'd like to think one of the hacker groups would do something worthwhile and somehow fuck up their system so it's useless if they pushed this through.

Not-a-reviewer 2 Nov 2015 10:33:23 7,686 posts
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b0rk wrote:

geeza2020 wrote:
Ugh. The attitude "if you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to worry about" absolutely distgusts me.
Yup, me too.

I prefer to think that it doesn't matter if you have something to hide, the government have no right no know anyway. Especially true in a democracy where that information can be used to help a party stay in power and influence the people.

Security is all too easy an excuse to push these things.

Deleted user 2 November 2015 10:38:04

Cappy 2 Nov 2015 10:47:40 14,393 posts
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The problem with the 'if you've nothing too hide, you've nothing to fear argument' is that 'wrong' can be a shifting boundary, an arbitrary decision made behind closed doors long after the fact.

Then, when somebody needs to pin something on you, they can now scour through years worth of digital history looking for any incident that could fit the context of what they are looking for.

For instance look at the constantly shifting definitions of rape proposed by feminists, under some of the definitions they propose putting into law, I'd have been a victim of numerous sexual assaults. Except such protections don't extend to me because the perpetrators were female.

Certain restrictions on state power have to remain in place because once granted, those powers can be applied in all sorts of ways they never proposed in the first place.

RobAnybody 3 Nov 2015 20:54:51 2,892 posts
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Further developments - no more unbreakable encryption if Investigatory Powers Bill goes through unchanged:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11970391/Internet-firms-to-be-banned-from-offering-out-of-reach-communications-under-new-laws.html

https://www.rt.com/uk/320639-surveillance-bill-encryption-banned/

Note: the Telegraph's headline is misleading, this draft bill only goes before parliament on Wednesday 4th November, it then faces a battle to get be passed.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/02/theresa-may-faces-fight-over-web-browsing-access

Edited by RobAnybody at 09:26:54 04-11-2015

Deleted user 3 November 2015 21:33:23

Won't this also make it a shitload more easy for people to access lightly encrypted data? If the government make it law to make shit easier to hack into it's kind of asking for trouble.

Deleted user 3 November 2015 21:42:00

My main worry about this sort of shit is that it makes encryption difficult. Some data is really sensitive (e.g. financial data) and making it open to the government makes it more likely to be open to others too.

With regards to the snoopers charter in general? Part of me is like: hell no, they shouldn't be allowed that. The other part of me is just steeped in apathy. It�s gonna happy one way or another. One way with an actual law being passed, another way them doing it without us knowing.

Edited by lukej at 21:42:17 03-11-2015

Dougs 3 Nov 2015 21:49:12 100,414 posts
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It doesn't even go before Parliament tomorrow, this is a draft Bill in pre-legislative scrutiny phase. It'll go before Parliament in the spring.