Would Ranieri have won the league this season? • Non-Gaming • Sport • Eurogamer.net

Zoltar 5 May 2005 10:17:40 628 posts
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I’m playing devil’s advocate here, but still, I think it’s an interesting question.

There has been no doubt this season that Mourinho has been a phenomenon. The man is very astute tactically, a man motivator of the highest degree and can hold his own with the best when it comes to mind games and press manipulation.

However, I do think that there has to be a huge question mark over the man’s abilities to buy the right players. The absolute core of his team have been the payers that he inherited; Lampard, Terry, Duff, Cole, Makelele, and even Chech and Robben were actually signed by Ranieri, but just didn’t arrive at the club until after he left. Apart from Carvalho who has impressed me, the rest of the players he have brought in have not been key, and have struggled to make an impact. I hate to jump on the media bandwagon, but Drogba is a bit of a joke, and looks like an even worse buy when you consider that Mourinho could have got Eto instead. Same again with Kezman, who just isn’t Premiership quality, and again was apparently his preference over Ronaldinho. Tiago, and Nuno Morais have not impressed wither.

Now, pause for a moment to reflect on last season. Ranieri, again improved his league position finishing in second place and reached the semis of the CL. He had Robben and Chech coming in. He was brining in the bulk of the talented young England players to form the backbone of a new side. Who knows what he may have achieved. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Mourinho is not a fantastic manager, he is. Just don’t know if this is all about him.

Hurleybird 5 May 2005 10:20:57 1,381 posts
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Yep, completely agree that Ranieri would have done it!

MikeD 5 May 2005 10:21:44 10,063 posts
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Zoltar wrote:
Same again with Kezman, who just isn’t Premiership quality

I am going to disagree here. I'm sure he has played crap so far but that's more down to incompatibility of him with the team or coach.

He was very, very good at PSV. PSV suffered no offense backlash after van nistlerooij left because Kezman filled the role so well.

I don't know if Rainieri would have had a better chance. maybe, he was familiar with the team and was building at something.

GrandTheftApu 5 May 2005 10:24:23 6,117 posts
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It's not totally relevant but Ranieri has already lost his job at Valencia, after inheriting a team which had been successful under Benitez. His treatment at chelsea probably has something to do with it but I feel he has gone into decline, and I don't know that he could have taken chelsea to the title.

Zoltar 5 May 2005 10:27:00 628 posts
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MikeD wrote:

Zoltar wrote:
Same again with Kezman, who just isn’t Premiership quality

I am going to disagree here. I'm sure he has played crap so far but that's more down to incompatibility of him with the team or coach.

Maybe. Premiership "quality" was not quite what I meant. More that perhaps he lacks the qualities that are needed in the Premiership, and is more suited to other leagues.

We'll see what happens in the summer. He's the kind of player that will go to Bolton or Borough and do really well. I'd certianly agree that he has not really had a fair crack at Chelsea, but what I've seen has not impressed me in truth.

GrandTheftApu 5 May 2005 10:28:25 6,117 posts
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MikeD wrote:

Zoltar wrote:
Same again with Kezman, who just isn’t Premiership quality

He was very, very good at PSV. PSV suffered no offense backlash after van nistlerooij left because Kezman filled the role so well.

It's true that Kezman had a better scoring rate at PSV than van nistlerooij, but van nistlerooij's scoring rate hardly wavered when he came to the premiership and started playing in the Champions League whereas Kezman has not had a good season. Having said that it takes some players a season to settle in, look at Bergkamp he had a poor first season at Arsenal.

MikeD 5 May 2005 10:29:50 10,063 posts
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Zoltar wrote:
We'll see what happens in the summer. He's the kind of player that will go to Bolton or Borough and do really well. I'd certianly agree that he has not really had a fair crack at Chelsea, but what I've seen has not impressed me in truth.

No, but when is he playing? When the b-team plays. Or he gets a chance when things are going badly.

I think if he goes to a team that gives him a proper chance he'll surprise you.

Jetset_UK 5 May 2005 10:32:48 3,578 posts
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I remember seeing Drogba in last years UEFA cup, and he was absolute quality, and I wasnt surprised to see him go for 200 million or whatever it was. I guess he either hasnt clicked in the Chelsea team, or hasnt yet adapted to the Premiership, but I think we're yet to see the best of him. As for Kesman, didn't he have a better scoring record in the Dutch league than Van Longface?

Ranieri would have won it I think, plus my mum liked him.

Gretters 5 May 2005 10:41:36 2,629 posts
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Yes. Ranieri would've won it.

For the love of God, I would've won it, and I'd have been trying to make them lose!

Plus, Ranieri was responsible for all the signings that won the league for them this season (although I concede he did take Veron off our hands), and I believe that Mourinho's signings are a worrying indication for Chelsea fans of what he thinks is worth Abramovich's gazillions.

Tiago £10m, Carvallho £20m, Drogba £24m, Jarosek £10m, Ferreria (I'm not sure of the price, but if it's more than 20p, they got done) and finally Kezman who hasn't hit it off this season, but is probably the 'best' signing in terms of value as, at the time he was bought (considering his scoring record) £5m was a steal.

That he hasn't hit form is probably more down to Chelski's tactics than his poo-ness.

Edit to prevent flaming: I know Mourinho is a mint coach, and as such I think he's wasted at Chelsea. It's just that I worry about his signings when given money to chuck about. Much as I do about Fergie's. Djemba-Djemba anyone?

Edited by Gretters at 10:45:55 05-05-2005

Pinchy 5 May 2005 10:48:33 842 posts
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I dont think ranieri would have won the PL this year, although I would agree that it is largely his team that has won it for mourinho. the reason chelsea have won the league is that they havent dropped points to teams in the bottom half of the league. the team is built on a solid defence that knows if the strikers get a goal they will likely be able to keep a clean sheet and get chances to score another. compared with man u and arsenal they are a completely defensive team. even arsene wenger commented on how amazingly consistent they have been, by the time the form of the rest caught up it was already too late. I think ranieri would have dropped points and given the other two a chance to keep up.

I think mourinho is a very good motivator and coach, however the real test will come when we see who he buys in the summer and when the rest of the teams next season want to beat the champions. if they win it again then fair enough but i think it will be much harder next season.

Zoltar 5 May 2005 10:59:13 628 posts
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OK, here’s one. Would Sven have won it?

I would say emphatically yes! As wasp correctly pointed out, Mourinho is about getting consistent results good enough for winning the league, not necessarily rising to the big occasions to win cups. That is exactly the kind of manager I see Sven as.

A bit unfortunate considering his current role really.

Whizzo 5 May 2005 11:02:49 44,810 posts
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I do question Jose's judgement about the match on Tuesday, bringing on Kezman (who has frankly been toilet when I've seen him) and Robben (who's not had much time on the pitch for a while) on to try and get a goal was very amusing for a "neutral".

Robben was more use to Liverpool than he was to Chelsea.

Would Ranieri have won the league? Maybe, maybe not but his constant rotations and tinkering probably didn't help them last season.

MikeD 5 May 2005 11:06:54 10,063 posts
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Zoltar wrote:
OK, here’s one. Would Sven have won it?.

No way.

All these coaches suck.

They need some Dutch lovin'. Hiddink or Adriaanse. Or Rijkaard, he has done well at Barcelona.

marilena 5 May 2005 11:11:57 8,238 posts
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I think that Ranieri received a lot of flack for no reason last year, he created a strong team. His results at Valencia don't say very much, as it was mostly down to bad luck. None of his new signings adapted to spanish football, although they were all quality players (apart from Corradi, maybe).

He had a chance of winning the Premiership this year, although the race might have been closer.

And it's true, while tactically a great manager, as far as signings go Mourinho made quite a lot of mistakes. Drogba isn't one, he's very good as lone striker, wich suits Mourinho's tactics well. He was overpriced though. Kezman was a steal no matter how you see it, at that price it would have been stupid not to bring him in. For Tiago, on the other hand, there's no excuse. He's poor. I'd have chosen Scott Parker over him any day.

Gretters 5 May 2005 11:12:21 2,629 posts
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Zoltar wrote:
OK, here’s one. Would Sven have won it?

I would say emphatically yes! As wasp correctly pointed out, Mourinho is about getting consistent results good enough for winning the league, not necessarily rising to the big occasions to win cups. That is exactly the kind of manager I see Sven as.

A bit unfortunate considering his current role really.

The only thing I would have against Sven winning the league with Chelsea is that he would have persevered with Veron. Understandably touted as one of the best players in the World when seen playing in Italy, but utter, utter poo in England.

Edit: but he would have kept Crespo too, who is superior in about 20,000 ways to Drogba. 20,001 since the new 'do.

Edited by Gretters at 11:14:24 05-05-2005

marilena 5 May 2005 11:30:54 8,238 posts
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Gretters wrote:
Edit: but he would have kept Crespo too, who is superior in about 20,000 ways to Drogba.

Putting it in this perspective, Drogba does look like a bad signing. Crespo was already in the team and he is a quality striker, there wasn't any need to throw 24 million pounds at Drogba.

The same goes for all the others except Carvahlo, they were brought in although the team already had better options. I guess Mourinho didn't want everyone to think that he won by using Ranieri's team, but the result is that he payed a lot of money in order to have poorer players.

Zoltar 5 May 2005 11:57:10 628 posts
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MikeD wrote:

Zoltar wrote:
OK, here’s one. Would Sven have won it?.

No way.

All these coaches suck.

They need some Dutch lovin'. Hiddink or Adriaanse. Or Rijkaard, he has done well at Barcelona.

/sings to the tune of 'Land of Hope and Glory'

I love Martin Jo-ol
Martin Jol loves meeee.
I love Martin Jo-ol.
Marten Jol loves meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!

/loves Martin Jol

richispsycho 5 May 2005 14:05:27 722 posts
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I disagree!

Ranieri wouldn't have won. He is not a winner.

Mourinho did several important things that made his team better than Ranieri's.

1) Got rid of the wasters. Veron, Crespo & Mutu. All apparently class. All dropped like a hot rock by Mourinho.

2) Made sure he had 2 players for each position. He had a tight squad where everyone wan't too far away from getting into the team.

3) Turn Joe Cole into a team player. Former wonderkid Joe was always a talented prospect but only ever had flashes of brilliance. Mourinho forced him to play for the team.

Ranieri brought players for the sake of it. Mourinho only brought players that fit the English style of play. Drogba has done ok. Kezman hasn't done great but not for lack of effort.

I like Mourinho. Like me he's a special one

ralphwolfenstein 5 May 2005 14:07:37 1,038 posts
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/ignores thread, just answers question

no

marilena 5 May 2005 14:41:36 8,238 posts
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richispsycho wrote:
I disagree!

Ranieri wouldn't have won. He is not a winner.

Mourinho did several important things that made his team better than Ranieri's.

1) Got rid of the wasters. Veron, Crespo & Mutu. All apparently class. All dropped like a hot rock by Mourinho.

2) Made sure he had 2 players for each position. He had a tight squad where everyone wan't too far away from getting into the team.

3) Turn Joe Cole into a team player. Former wonderkid Joe was always a talented prospect but only ever had flashes of brilliance. Mourinho forced him to play for the team.

Ranieri brought players for the sake of it. Mourinho only brought players that fit the English style of play. Drogba has done ok. Kezman hasn't done great but not for lack of effort.

I like Mourinho. Like me he's a special one

I'm sorry, but Veron could play better than Tiago even with a hangover and a broken toe. And Crespo is class. Mutu is the only one I would have gotten rid of without a second thought, he's too much of a party boy to be reliable.

And you're also wrong when you say he has two people for each postion, he only has one right fullback (Glenn Johnson) and he doesn't like him at all. He made experiments on that postion during the entire season and none of them worked.

You're right about Cole, he has greatly improved during this season.

richispsycho 5 May 2005 14:49:47 722 posts
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marilena wrote:
...
I'm sorry, but Veron could play better than Tiago even with a hangover and a broken toe. And Crespo is class. Mutu is the only one I would have gotten rid of without a second thought, he's too much of a party boy to be reliable.

Veron is not a worker. You give him the ball he plays a pretty pass. Tiago is a worker. I haven't watched him a great deal but he seems to get stuck in.

Crespo always looked overweight. I was surprised when he got rid of him. But I think he didn't want to play for the cause...

marilena wrote:
And you're also wrong when you say he has two people for each postion, he only has one right fullback (Glenn Johnson) and he doesn't like him at all. He made experiments on that postion during the entire season and none of them worked.

Paulo Ferreira is a right back. Gallas can play there to but is out of position.

Maybe they didn't have four wingers but thats arguable to.

Gretters 5 May 2005 15:35:18 2,629 posts
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marilena wrote:
I'm sorry, but Veron could play better than Tiago even with a hangover and a broken toe.

As a United fan, I have to say that I'm not sure.

As I said earlier, in the slower Italian game, he looks amazing, but for us he'd produce one match-winning pass every few weeks and spend the rest of the time looking like a slightly dazed pirate.

Having said that, he was, for the whole of his short OT career, engaged in the kind of 'who can kick it furthest' competition with Becks that 8-year-olds normally enjoy.

Just when we got rid of DB (BIG mistake, btw) and Veron gets a chance to be the 'main man' in a playmaker sense, we sell him too.

Still, having seen him indulged out of his mind (fiscally and in a positional/responsibility sense) at the Bridge, the £16-odd mil we got for him looks good business.

marilena 5 May 2005 15:40:02 8,238 posts
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I had forgotten about Ferreira. What happened to him?

richispsycho 5 May 2005 17:52:51 722 posts
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I think he got injured.

laur 5 May 2005 19:18:33 1,213 posts
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Veron is in fact the most expensive player in the world. He has had the most money spent on him over his whole career than anyone else.