Donald Trump, first orange US President Page 943

  • JamboWayOh 15 May 2018 12:48:51 9,536 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:

    But to do it in this way, at this time, absolutely boggles the mind. Oh yes, let's make the move on the 70th anniversary of the day the Palestinians call their great national catastrophe, I'm sure they'd be fine with that.
    I'm pretty sure that was the intention tbh. Ah well, anything they can do to speed up the second coming I guess.
  • whatfruitlivesagain 15 May 2018 12:56:56 1,306 posts
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    So I think I know what has forced Kimmy Jong to the negotiating table with his more civilized neighbor.

    China Sanctions - in March President Dotard brought in sanctions against Chinese imports into the United States. Within a short period afterwards North Korea announces it willing to open up peace talks with South. China withdraws support to North Korea to force them to the table. The Chinese broker talks with SK and NK to broker the peace agreement. China massages Trump's ego with the aim to get him to drop import sanctions and forget about their rampant IP theft and appropriation.

    Edited by whatfruitlivesagain at 12:58:25 15-05-2018
  • Tonka 15 May 2018 13:09:37 28,514 posts
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    A friend of mine has a simpler theory.

    They won. They have the the missiles and the payloads. No need to bang the drum anymore. Now they can start talking to their neighbours but from a position of NOCULUEAR STRNEGHTS!
  • whatfruitlivesagain 15 May 2018 13:20:45 1,306 posts
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    They may have all the NOCULUEAR WEAPONS but without Chinese aid the country would starve inside six months.
  • disusedgenius 15 May 2018 13:24:47 9,359 posts
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    I doubt they care about that as much as the possibility of their oil supply getting turned off.
  • Khanivor 15 May 2018 14:05:07 43,915 posts
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    glaeken wrote:
    @askew I am sure the ZTE decision had nothing to do with this.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/news/china-contributing-500-million-trump-linked-project-indonesia/
    Add at least another month to Mueller Time as he tracks down the money from this construction company to Trumpís accounts.
  • rockavitch 15 May 2018 15:05:47 1,034 posts
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    I reckon the plan now is to just keep doing enough to keep Mueller busy so that it'll take longer than his presidential run and by that point no one will care enough to follow up because "what's the point". Overwhelm them into submission.
  • DJCopa 15 May 2018 15:41:11 1,635 posts
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    This is my view as well. I mean, the fact you have the Republican party, almost entirely, not giving one shit about any of it speaks volumes for the future.

    They've embraced the Tea Party and can't see it going back, regardless of Mueller.


    Same with Brexit here - the whole thing is so monumentally fucked, I think the country is beyond repair, or at very least divisions are so large now they won't be healed for a long time.

    Hope I'm wrong...
  • Your-Mother 16 May 2018 01:32:28 2,072 posts
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    Welp, it was nice while it lasted. NK have cancelled high level talks with SK.
  • Your-Mother 16 May 2018 01:33:36 2,072 posts
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    Claiming that military exercises in SK with the US are rehearsal for an invasion.
  • Mola_Ram 16 May 2018 01:41:10 18,683 posts
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    Seems like postponing those until after the massive summit next month would have been the prudent thing to do.
  • Jono62 16 May 2018 02:50:00 20,973 posts
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    No Nobel prize for you.
  • Mola_Ram 16 May 2018 03:01:32 18,683 posts
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    If Trump did somehow manage to not fuck things up, and actually help create a lasting peace on the Korean peninsula, then absolutely I would support him receiving a Nobel prize (a joint one with the two Korean leaders).

    Of course he'd deserve losing it again for starting a war with Iran, but eh... half the recipients of the peace prize are massively flawed in some way. It's not like it could have much less credibility.
  • Khanivor 16 May 2018 04:05:07 43,915 posts
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    Now also saying that they may pull out of summit if US insists on denuclearization.

    Sneaking suspicion Trump might have been played like a sucker.
  • Mola_Ram 16 May 2018 04:27:30 18,683 posts
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    This is why going from nothing straight to showy high-level summits was thought to be a bad idea. It creates huge pressure for something big to result from it, when in the real world most negotiations are incremental and lacking fanfare.

    I don't think Trump in particular has nearly enough patience to see this thing through.
  • Tonka 16 May 2018 05:11:06 28,514 posts
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    Jono62 wrote:
    No Nobel prize for you.
    Don't be too sure. Obama got one without lifting a finger after all.
  • Khanivor 16 May 2018 05:15:05 43,915 posts
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    Mola, are you suggesting Trump and his administration arenít cut out for this level?

    I thought they are doing so well!!!
  • Mola_Ram 16 May 2018 06:35:24 18,683 posts
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    Hey, a good result is a good result. If, despite all appearances, he really is some idiot savant capable of negotiating a peace treaty, then I'd support that happening.

    But yeah, looking a bit of a dunce at the moment. IT'S ALL PART OF THE PLAN, I'm sure.
  • KnuttinAtoll 16 May 2018 07:04:42 6,063 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    If Trump did somehow manage to not fuck things up, and actually help create a lasting peace on the Korean peninsula, then absolutely I would support him receiving a Nobel prize (a joint one with the two Korean leaders).

    Of course he'd deserve losing it again for starting a war with Iran, but eh... half the recipients of the peace prize are massively flawed in some way. It's not like it could have much less credibility.
    You think Trump had any involvement other than a few Twitter posts in the whole thing?

    Give the price to Pompeo or whoever else put efforts in in the background, if you really have to. Don't need another ego massage for the Orange Utang even though as you say the peace price has little credibility these days anyways. He'd still lap it up though cos it's a prize for winners innit. Fucking cunt that he is.

    And I also firmly believe NK playing him and SK like a fiddle, it was predictable - they have a track record of doing so and I'm sure the NUKULARS have given them extra confidence pulling these moves.

    I also reckon Trump will, should these talks actually go ahead, inadvertently make concessions without even realising it. Can't really blame NK for trying as for them it must be the perfect storm - moron in chief at the helm of their biggest enemy and becoming a nuclear power at pretty much the same time.
  • Skirlasvoud 16 May 2018 08:53:05 4,039 posts
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    Agreed. Like I said a page back: N-Korea's end-goal is getting some of the economic sanctions lifted in exchange for causing less of a ruckus (like active nuclear testing or launching missiles).

    They're NOT going to give up on their nuclear arsenal. In their mind, they're now a super-power and an equal partner to the US. This summit with the US president, is their proof of that. They're as unlikely to give up their nukes as the US would be.


    After raising the tension for years now, just promising to be quiet for a decade and coming across as the cooperative ones, will seem like a generous offer.
    Besides, Trump ratcheting this summit up like a big thing (if it even is going to happen at all), will make him desperate to get some sort of result.


    I wouldn't be surprised if Kim Jong Un manages to maneuver in such a way that that he will seem like the peacemaker, with Trump coming out of the meeting - desperate for a win - with no more than a promise that active testing and missile launches will stop, in exchange for sanctioned lifted. That NK keeps its nukes isn't mentioned.
    Then the Trumpeteers will hail this as the greatest achievement since Trump managed to establish peace in the middle east and we'll all be left scratching our heads what the fuck just happened, while the dynastic dictator's grin widens another 2 inches as he sees off the 4-year presidents.

    Edited by Skirlasvoud at 09:07:01 16-05-2018
  • Load_2.0 16 May 2018 09:17:50 28,010 posts
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    I agree Trump is prone to manipulation, a potential "win" on the world stage is something that buffoon craves. So the whole process should be viewed with healthy dose of scepticism.

    However there has been more progress in bringing NK out of isolation in the past year than there has been in the past 30. A willingness to engage with the South and US regarding denuclearization is a good thing, any discussions that improve relations between the North and the South are a good thing.
  • brokenkey 16 May 2018 09:28:52 9,878 posts
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    NK's position here is a natural, and predictable response to Trump dumping the Iran treaty.
  • Tonka 16 May 2018 09:32:06 28,514 posts
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    Yay Israel! Way to go you numbnuts!

    https://twitter.com/HodaAH/status/996294589840547840
  • Not-a-reviewer 16 May 2018 10:37:14 5,341 posts
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    Load_2.0 wrote:
    I agree Trump is prone to manipulation, a potential "win" on the world stage is something that buffoon craves. So the whole process should be viewed with healthy dose of scepticism.

    However there has been more progress in bringing NK out of isolation in the past year than there has been in the past 30. A willingness to engage with the South and US regarding denuclearization is a good thing, any discussions that improve relations between the North and the South are a good thing.
    There hasn't been more progress. NK have done very similar things multiple times over the last 20 years. They've proposed discussions with the president before, always turned down because that's usually the last step of a negotiation not the first. They've promised peace talks, they've engaged with the south.

    Nothing so far is new other than trump saying yes to a meeting but I can't see he has a plan for that which would be productive.
  • JamboWayOh 16 May 2018 10:52:50 9,536 posts
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    Agreed. NK have played this tune before. Trump as always is playing it the biggun and feel he's going to get egg on his face in pursuit of that big win.
  • glaeken 16 May 2018 11:14:48 11,926 posts
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    It's interesting that Obama also proposed talks with NK but ran into massive republican resistance on that happening.

    Anyone thinking Trump deserves any credit for the current situation and taking a new approach has a short memory.
  • Load_2.0 16 May 2018 11:55:00 28,010 posts
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    I disagree. The relationship between north and south is improved.

    Kim Jong Un and South Korea's Moon Jae-in met for the first time in more than a decade came to an agreement to formally end the Korean War and declared a shared common goal of reducing hostility.

    Obviously those are goals rather than actions but it is progress in what will be a very long process.

    There is a big difference meetings and NK simply issuing rhetoric as they have in the past.

    The NK populace get fed the state propaganda but nothing stops phones, media and news coming from China. From testing missiles and declaring the obliteration of the US to friendly meetings is not something that will go unnoticed by the population of NK.
  • glaeken 16 May 2018 13:19:30 11,926 posts
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    The question in context of this thread is do you believe any improved relationship is as a result of Donald Trump. Yes the meeting between the North and south is a new development but is Trump in anyway responsible?

    If we look at just how Trump was handling NK before this sudden change of pace from NK it consisted of twitter insults and calling Kim rocket boy. The sudden change of tactics from NK was actually pretty odd in context of how the relationship appeared to be going at that stage. Let's face it this has all come about due to a sudden change in behaviour from NK which seems fairly inexplicable given how Trump's rhetoric up until that point.

    I suspect if we can attribute this change of behaviour from NK to Trump it's in that NK thought here is a guy we can manipulate and make look a fool. I think we are going to have to wait and see how this all plays out to see what NK's true motivations were for their odd attitude change.

    Edited by glaeken at 13:20:59 16-05-2018
  • Load_2.0 16 May 2018 13:29:53 28,010 posts
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    I think the change is primarily/entirely off the back of South Korea and China. Though that may have been given more impetus from the fear of Trump triggering nuclear armageddon. :)

    I think Kim knows he can be manipulated and see's him as a useful tool to possibly get an advantageous outcome in any negotiation. Which might seem a bad thing but the last few decades have achieved nothing except that they enabled NK to develop nukes while the population starved, so any progress is a good thing.
  • glaeken 16 May 2018 13:49:00 11,926 posts
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    I guess it could be as you say maybe NK thought with Trump they have someone stupid enough to actually start the war all of his predecessors had been trying to avoid. I am not convinced even Trump could pull off starting that war though.

    I suspect these negotiations are not really going to go anywhere. I just think NK will dick around for a while and it will become clear they are not really prepared to offer anything worth having. Maybe I am wrong but their behaviour has so dramatically changed in such a short space of time it's tricky to see it as genuine.
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