Following Donald Trump, first orange US President Page 1130

  • PazJohnMitch 13 Aug 2019 07:20:02 14,594 posts
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    I agree that the UKís immigration policies are shite but I have not seen anyone protest against them here. Yet British people get upset when the US do the same.
  • nickthegun 13 Aug 2019 14:29:49 78,318 posts
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    I'm going to go out on a limb and say that's because most people in the UK have never had to emigrate to the UK, so don't know anything about it.

    And the ones who have voted 'leave' so everyones life could be just as much of a pain in the arse as theirs was.
  • senso-ji 13 Aug 2019 16:06:25 9,706 posts
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    I thought the biggest issue with the UK visa was the ludicrous costs? Migrants, despite contributing to the economy by paying income tax, still have to pay an 'NHS health' charge of several hundred per year, and the cost to get indefinite leave to remain plus the citizenship test is several thousands.

    I think someone calculated it once and for them getting a British passport as an immigrant cost them over £10k.
  • PazJohnMitch 13 Aug 2019 22:06:53 14,594 posts
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    NHS is £400 per year.

    My wifeís Visas have cost us over £5k so far. Yeah it will be close to £10k by the time she gets indefinite leave to remain.

    Edited by PazJohnMitch at 22:07:47 13-08-2019
  • Psychotext 13 Aug 2019 22:55:33 65,356 posts
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    I think if I could get citizenship to say... Sweden or Norway right now for that much then I'd probably do it in a heartbeat.
  • fontgeeksogood 13 Aug 2019 23:02:32 6,541 posts
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    As an EU citizen for the next few months can't you just do it
  • Mola_Ram 14 Aug 2019 04:21:17 20,831 posts
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    It's not really to do with Trump, but this is basically the "America" thread now, so... here are some lovely stories about prisons in America.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/08/thirty-two-stories-jeffrey-epstein-prison-death/596029/

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 06:55:18 14-08-2019
  • Tonka 14 Aug 2019 06:24:29 29,676 posts
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    That was grim. I hope it's not as bad in Sweden. There are the occasional deaths though.
  • IMO 14 Aug 2019 06:31:27 7,003 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    It's not really too do with Trump, but this is basically the "America" thread now, so... here are some lovely stories about prisons in America.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/08/thirty-two-stories-jeffrey-epstein-prison-death/596029/
    I genuinely thought the one with the prisoners handcuffed to a table must have been really old because that couldn't possibly happen nowadays. Turns out it was 2017. I didn't read any more if the stories after that
  • Mola_Ram 14 Aug 2019 06:48:27 20,831 posts
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    It's probably one of the most intractable issues around, because the default attitude is often "they're in prison because they did bad things, so they're bad people, so they deserve this". How could any politician publicly run on a platform of reform to make prisons more humane? They'd get slaughtered by the tabloids, and in the polls.

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 06:56:46 14-08-2019
  • Tonka 14 Aug 2019 06:56:56 29,676 posts
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    It would have to be explained in a crime prevention manner rather than a let's treat people with dignity manner.
    "Do you want less crime? Then look at Norway."

    But given how much energy is spent on blaming crimes on "others" it's probably a tough pitch, even though it shouldn't be.
  • IMO 14 Aug 2019 07:00:39 7,003 posts
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    Tonka wrote:
    It would have to be explained in a crime prevention manner rather than a let's treat people with dignity manner.
    "Do you want less crime? Then look at Norway."

    But given how much energy is spent on blaming crimes on "others" it's probably a tough pitch, even though it shouldn't be.

    It also increasing feels like a system designed to fail, so it wouldn't just be prison reform or crime prevention - the entire justice system would need an overhaul. It's awash with too much money and power for those in power to loosen their grip on things.
  • Tonka 14 Aug 2019 07:08:06 29,676 posts
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    For sure. Just look at all the black people locked up for marijuana possession in states where Dude Bros are now opening hipster Bud Shops. The system is rigged. Or has become rigged I guess.

    See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ijiLqfXP0
  • Psychotext 14 Aug 2019 09:21:51 65,356 posts
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    fontgeeksogood wrote:
    As an EU citizen for the next few months can't you just do it
    Possibly. Would take slightly more planning than that though (and frankly I'd hate to be in that limbo anyway).
  • fontgeeksogood 14 Aug 2019 09:24:31 6,541 posts
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    Pfft, what's stopping you, just sell your house and - oh. Oh yeah
  • JamboWayOh 14 Aug 2019 09:32:11 14,230 posts
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    Yeah, that's always the argument isn't it, if you don't like it go somewhere else, not realising the upheaval involved. But then I suppose it makes it easier than try to comprehend that people travelling with their family to another country don't do it at the drop of a hat for shits and giggles.
  • nickthegun 14 Aug 2019 09:43:18 78,318 posts
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    Ive been approached for positions in New Zealand and have thought about the possibility of maybe looking at potentially investigating moving to Canada, cuz I know a few people who have. They both look like places I would really want to live and I would get to have a gun.

    But I'm too old, too lazy and, the same with leaving with the EU, its probably better to try and change this stupid country by staying here and whining about it.
  • challenge_hanukkah 14 Aug 2019 10:44:51 11,044 posts
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    JamboWayOh wrote:
    Yeah, that's always the argument isn't it, if you don't like it go somewhere else, not realising the upheaval involved. But then I suppose it makes it easier than try to comprehend that people travelling with their family to another country don't do it at the drop of a hat for shits and giggles.
    I've just sold my holiday home on California's coast to an Atlantean.

    Dunno what people are moaning about.
  • grey_matters 14 Aug 2019 10:55:16 4,749 posts
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    challenge_hanukkah wrote:
    JamboWayOh wrote:
    Yeah, that's always the argument isn't it, if you don't like it go somewhere else, not realising the upheaval involved. But then I suppose it makes it easier than try to comprehend that people travelling with their family to another country don't do it at the drop of a hat for shits and giggles.
    I've just sold my holiday home on California's coast to an Atlantean.

    Dunno what people are moaning about.
    Would have thought it'd be a Pacifican. Oceanic migrants taking all the good soon-to-be property, I guess.

    Edited by grey_matters at 10:56:27 14-08-2019
  • GuybrushFreepwood 14 Aug 2019 11:06:18 1,199 posts
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    fontgeeksogood wrote:
    Pfft, what's stopping you, just sell your house and - oh. Oh yeah
    Sorry Psycho, but This made me laugh :)
  • sirtacos 14 Aug 2019 11:14:04 8,170 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    It's not really to do with Trump, but this is basically the "America" thread now, so... here are some lovely stories about prisons in America.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/08/thirty-two-stories-jeffrey-epstein-prison-death/596029/
    Fucking hell.

    Definitely never living in the States after reading that. Sounds like a third world cesspool.
  • Armoured_Bear 14 Aug 2019 12:25:16 27,192 posts
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    America would be one of the last countries I'd move to, it's above North Korea, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Venezuela, Saudia Arabia, China and the dodgiest parts of Africa but that's about it.

    It's an insanely fcked up country and considering the wealth, land etc. really tragic.
  • FWB 14 Aug 2019 12:50:32 56,156 posts
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    Would never live in the US. It's got stunning landscape (outside the cities), some amazing people but the inequality and obsession with the car are too much. I like public transport and walking.
  • Load_2.0 14 Aug 2019 13:41:12 29,642 posts
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    PazJohnMitch wrote:
    NHS is £400 per year.

    My wifeís Visas have cost us over £5k so far. Yeah it will be close to £10k by the time she gets indefinite leave to remain.
    Passport and citizenship ceremony was another grand for me.

    All up 10k sounds about right.
  • Load_2.0 14 Aug 2019 13:43:18 29,642 posts
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    Saying you wouldn't live in the US is like saying you wouldn't live in Europe.

    Some states are polar opposites.
  • Psychotext 14 Aug 2019 13:54:48 65,356 posts
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    Load_2.0 wrote:
    Saying you wouldn't live in the US is like saying you wouldn't live in Europe.

    Some states are polar opposites.
    You'd still have the god emperor as your president not matter which you chose though...
  • disusedgenius 14 Aug 2019 13:54:58 9,943 posts
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    They all have similar issues with health care, inequality and holiday entitlements, mind. Even being able to rely on public transport is really just down to a couple of individual cities.

    Saying that, I wouldn't rule out living there either.
  • sirtacos 14 Aug 2019 14:25:18 8,170 posts
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    Load_2.0 wrote:
    Saying you wouldn't live in the US is like saying you wouldn't live in Europe.

    Some states are polar opposites.
    Don't most States have similar problems with the police, prison and justice systems? Not to mention healthcare.
    A few of the people on the list (prisoners who were killed) were non-violent offenders - one of them died for having eaten a space cookie. Another for having unpaid debts.

    I know that some states are better than others when it comes to prisons, courts, and civil forfeiture, and that federal penitentiaries are usually considered less stabby than state pens, so maybe you have a point. If you're lucky enough to be arrested or prosecuted somewhere relatively sane. Or "lucky" enough to have committed a federal crime.

    I wouldn't mind living in Boulder Colorado, Portland Oregon or one of the other socially progressive enclaves scattered throughout the country... but I don't know if that'd be enough insulation from the Twilight Zone shit currently going on nationwide.

    Edited by sirtacos at 14:27:10 14-08-2019

    Edited by sirtacos at 14:29:10 14-08-2019
  • Your-Mother 14 Aug 2019 14:53:52 2,888 posts
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    Portland is an absolute shithole. Might be nice to go and visit as a tourist but fuck living there. Itís being destroyed from inside by the hipster morons who setup vape stores and donut shops in gentrified areas because they think itíll look good on Instagram, and then act shocked and amazed at how they go bankrupt a few months later due to their only foot traffic being the homeless or rural class, leaving entire districts boarded up inhospitable wastelands.
  • Psychotext 14 Aug 2019 15:12:30 65,356 posts
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    Was reading in The Economist that bankruptcies would be reduced 65% if America had free healthcare.
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