@Fourfoldroot I'm not arguing for censorship, just prefer it when such things are used.|
You are making an argument for me. I said I think fan service is a bit sad and cheap and not needed. I say that as a fan of the Tales games. The central bit of the comment was about not about the games but about your comment. I never claimed the game beats down women, never asked for banning. I am free to criticise Japanese sexual politics though.
Tales of Berseria • Page 2
My biggest problem with those types of ultra-revealing clothes in certain contexts is that they break the illusion for me, as they're basically ridiculous. There's no plausible way that those clothes would be suitable for work on a boat.
It's like chainmail bikinis in fantasy games. Going into combat with your midriff exposed is inherently stupid.
And it ruins the fantasy for me, it stretches my suspension of disbelief to breaking point.
My objection extends to both genders, but on the whole it's female characters who end up wearing impractical outfits.
Edited by drhickman1983 at 09:05:16 23-04-2016
It does break the fantasy for me, as it's just so ridiculous. I'm speaking in general terms more so than a specific game.
@Fourfoldroot I said it was tacky and not needed in the game. It never said it shouldn't or couldn't exist.
You are welcome to disagree with me, I genuinely think it is a serious issue in Japan though. They have some real issues with sexism and the treatment of women. I don't think that is related to to the game though.
Edited by mattshark at 18:03:08 23-04-2016
@Fourfoldroot I more find it a confusion between revealing and sexiness. Sexiness is more subtle than that imo. I also don't think revealing is just showing female sexuality, sexuality is far more nuanced than that.
@Fourfoldroot I just think they should be more clever about it. There are better ways of implying sexuality than being obvious.
Edited by mattshark at 00:11:04 24-04-2016
Demo's out! A slim 300MB or so from the Japanese PSN. First impressions are very positive.
Demo gives you a quick choice between scenario and a more battle focused scene. I chose the battle side - it puts you into a fair sized multiple area map, gives you a gravestone hoverboard thing (!) and lets you have at it. Things I've noticed:
- 60fps is back!
- Battles aren't as seamless as they were previously but the transition feels much faster, both into and out of battle.
- Battle attacks are carried out using the four face buttons now, rather than being reliant on direction. Camera angle's the same so L1 is now a Dynasty Warriors style block and centre camera button - feels nice.
- Character combo length is decided by a meter represented by jewels under their health. These go up with successful attacks and (I think) down when you're blocked. They started at 3 but getting up to 5 was pretty easy.
- Every character has a 'special move' they can do with R2 to spend their jewels and do something special. Velvet sucks life out of the enemy powering up a move (this is different depending on the enemy) while Magilou straight up nukes a casting enemy.
- There are four characters in battle and two subs. You can spend BG or whatever the numbered meter was called to swap them in and out.
- That skill system is gone from weapons and armour! Instead there's a FF9-style system of learning fixe skills from items while the items themselves can get random skills. One item I picked up had a single random skill which increased BG gain for that character by 1.1x.
- Fields still look pretty plain. There are collectibles which you can grab though.
I'll try the scenario bit when I get back but mostly positive so far - not a patch on the disappointment of Zestiria.
Humperfunk 8,017 posts
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Sounds good! I dropped Zestiria after 15 hours, was definitely disappointing. Hope to one day finish it though but can't see it happening with the amount of massive games on the horizon. This though, could get stuck in...
oddly, reading this thread game me the urge to try Zestiria (so picked it up for £20)
Is there a PC demo?
Sounds good, Zestiria was a bit rubbish. Never finished it. Story was poop.
Nope - no PC version in Japan. It's the first Tales demo since Vesperia PS3 I think so it's clear Namco are very aware of all the negative feedback from Zestiria (for me it was the combination of the way it treated character level, the importance of influencing drop rate even during the game and the equipment skills board that made me drop it). Things like having battle transitions and a non-fixed lock-on camera to avoid the disastrous Zestiria camera is a strong statement of how they recognised feedback, as well as the fact they seem to have disintegrated Hideo Baba and scattered his remains out in the Pacific somewhere.
I seem to in the minority in enjoying Zestiria and pretty much playing it without switching to something else (a big rpg problem I have). The skills system was crappy but you didn't need to give it too much time. Camera could be a pain occasionally but was rarely fatal. What was the character level/drop rate issue? I don't remember any problems there. Plot was simple enough but most Tale games are and I thought the characters were okay. I only played through once and the DLC and didn't get around to doing the postgame dungeon in full but I was quite happy with my preorder (I did skip the L.E. though after yet another cut-down from the US release at a more expensive price).
Thanks for the headsup about the Berseria demo though, have to grab it and check it out.
The level thing was something that came up when I tried to work out how to get skills onto new equipment. Basically, the reason you get less XP in higher difficulties is because that's a bonus; equipment drop rate and number of skills on weapons are significantly affected by how much higher level the enemy is than you. Since levelling up confers relatively little in terms of stat bonuses then staying lower level is a net positive.
As a result I ended up about 15 hours in trying to take on an optional boss very much in the "should be quite tough but definitely doable" type and having my CPU characters getting one and two-shotted by it through elemental resistance because new equipment was a downgrade. I couldn't face multiple hours of grinding in that slow and muddy-feeling battle system (on PS3 - not sure if a more consistent frame rate on PS4 helped and there's no save transfer in the PS4 version I'm aware of) to try and sort everything out so I put it down. Bear in mind I played through Star Ocean 5's difficulty spikes no problem - another game which demands mastery of certain game systems at certain points.
I tried twice to pick it back up and even just moved on but it just didn't grab me. Berseria feels much sharper again so even if the equipment skills end up being grindy it's much less of an issue anyway.
Cheers for the impressions uiruki, that certainly sounds positive. I'm still feeling pretty blah about it all after Zestiria though - that's the only Tales of game that I've played and not finished (though I doubt I was far from the end - I had to fight Alisha's mentor).
I'll have to play some more but the main difference is that it's just more fun to battle as it is faster and more responsive. Plenty of flashy animations in the move sets you're given at the start too. I haven't delved into the menus or anything yet.
Would you say it feels more Symphonia/Abyss/Vesperia, as opposed to Graces/Zestiria (not coincidentally, my two least-favourite games in the series)?
It's a bit more like Graces was, maybe? Kind of like Xillia 2 ended up but without SP. Shorter combos so far too, none of the massive chains you'd do in Xillia. The main wrinkle seems to be the unique powers.
Hmm... I can maybe deal with that, as Graces' battle system was the one part of it I had anything approaching positive feelings toward. I still wasn't a big fan, but if character progression is going back to learning (permanent?) skills from equipment, then I can at least be happy about that. Cheers again.
My main problems with Zestiria were that the story was absolute pants on every single level and the combat was ridiculously easy.
Hopefully the demo will come out ahead of the western release - it seems quite generous at first glance so it should give you a much clearer idea of whether to buy than anything I say, although I'm surprised how much I have enjoyed it as in the past I've felt that Tales games do poorly in demos. I nearly didn't buy Innocence or Hearts for Vita because they had such poor introductions in the demos.
I preferred Hearts on DS but the Vita one was okay. Only played Innocence on DS too.
@Duffking most Tales games didn't have very strong story so I didn't think Zeatiria was much worse than most of the others. I think I only played on normal and it was pretty easy but I thought it had a hard option available from the start too. I played it on PS4 so it looked sharp and ran smoothly enough.
Yeah, they definitely appeal more for the characters and their interactions rather than the overarching story. That said, the plot in Abyss is the only time I've been so angry at something that happened in a game I've turned it off right away and never gone back.
Here's the OP. Verdict: not as good as Xillia's.
@uiruki which bit in Abyss (in spoiler tags of course) as that is one of the ones I actually finished.
On topic had a go at the battle side of the Berseria demo and seems decent enough although I only skimmed reading the tutorial explanations (I've never been great at having the patience to read Japanese tutorial type stuff). The attack system seems fairly different and more like a realtime Xenogears or Legaia in realtime with Tales trappings.
Have to try the Scenario demo next with dictionary at the ready...
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