Following Making a Murderer Netflix show like Serial Page 3

  • richarddavies 30 Dec 2015 16:15:32 6,608 posts
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    funkstar wrote:
    @richarddavies regarding brendan's interrogations, he was clearly guessing for what he thought would be the right answer and get him back to school. The narrative he put forward had no physical evidence to back it up.

    Part of the reason it seems so detailed is when he got 'wrong' answers the police would note them down and then keep asking him for the 'right' answer that fits the narrative they were expecting. For example,
    the bullet: they have to ask him multiple times what he did to her in the garage. eventually they say 'what did you do to her head' and he says 'punched her'. they say 'no, be honest, what else did you to her head' and they are clearly trying to get him to say he shot her.

    Oh yeah they did some shady tactics to get him to say what they wanted. More my point was at that time all they had was the charred bones and an idea that she was shot due to the damage on them. Everything else I said above came from Brendan's testimony. They didn't just start asking ""was she chained to a bed then raped? what about a stabbing was she stabbed up then maybe you slit her throat? etc it all came from him. They didn't just make up a torture porn scenario then fed it to him.

    Again just want to point out to anyone that's not seen it yet it's well worth a watch. Just an amazing documentary. I'm actually enjoying all this talk about it afterwards and peoples thoughts on it. So just to get an idea then. Is there anyone that's seen it that think they are innocent?

    Edited by richarddavies at 16:16:15 30-12-2015
  • Deleted user 30 December 2015 16:26:22
    funkstar wrote:
    @richarddavies regarding brendan's interrogations, he was clearly guessing for what he thought would be the right answer and get him back to school. The narrative he put forward had no physical evidence to back it up.

    Part of the reason it seems so detailed is when he got 'wrong' answers the police would note them down and then keep asking him for the 'right' answer that fits the narrative they were expecting. For example,
    the bullet: they have to ask him multiple times what he did to her in the garage. eventually they say 'what did you do to her head' and he says 'punched her'. they say 'no, be honest, what else did you to her head' and they are clearly trying to get him to say he shot her.
    Sure they gave up on him giving the "wrong" answer and finally just said "Brendan, tell the truth, you shot her in the head".  It was horifyingly comical.  Poor kid.  Simple as a bag of nails, he had no chance against two smart, manipulative cops with no evidence but an agenda bigger than Mt Everest.
  • richarddavies 30 Dec 2015 16:30:17 6,608 posts
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    I suppose for me with brendan, he's such a disadvantaged lad with his intelligence and naivety and it showed with how he was played around with by the police and other people. He's a very easily led person. I could quite easily see him doing what he was told to do by someone he trusts and looks up to (Steve) or coerced into doing something that he might not normally do.
  • Youthist 30 Dec 2015 17:38:47 13,624 posts
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    I believe that the kid is completely innocent. I am certain that Steven Avery should not have been found guilty based purely on what I have seen and read. And coincidentally I do not believe he did it, no. 10 per cent chance he did. I cant get passed so much of the evidence. Why the f would he put he in the back of her own truck drive her to his garage from the motor home? Makes zero sense. Much of it makes no sense (including minor bone parts elsewhere - indicating someone shovelled them from elsewhere and dumped them on his burn pit leaving some behind to make it look like he was the one who burned her there. Makes no sense. So yeah - too much evidence makes no sense to say he did it. There would be more pointing at him.
  • Youthist 30 Dec 2015 17:43:08 13,624 posts
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    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    Personally, and after doing some more research into the case, I do think he's guilty, however of that trial he should not have been found guilty. He definitely deserves a retrial, but I wouldn't say he was innocent just yet.

    For one, the show doesn't mention that Teresa had already previously complained about Steve Avery's behaviour towards her in the past was creepy and was reluctant to go to his place. Also, he called her a few times a few days before for her to come down to his site (which when you think about it, didn't her ex say she was getting phone calls that she didn't want to answer?)
    Also, two things are for certain; Teresa's body was burnt (show doesn't mention that her mobile phone and jeans were found in Steve's burn barrel) and HE DID have a bonfire. The chances of someone else making the kind of fire needed to burn her body whilst Steve had a bonfire St the same time is uncanny.
    .


    Brendan should be exonerated imo. I read his original report and that testimony is shady as fuck. I'm not sure Richard has watched the whole thing, but if you haven't you'll soon understand how and why his testimony was so descriptive.

    I mean feck, his original testimony claimed he raped her for 5-10 mins. A 16 year old kid having sex for the first time lasting a whole 10 mins? Fuck off, lol.
    Where was all this about previous complaints by her wrt Avery? Source plz.
  • Youthist 30 Dec 2015 17:45:29 13,624 posts
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    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    Personally, and after doing some more research into the case, I do think he's guilty, however of that trial he should not have been found guilty. He definitely deserves a retrial, but I wouldn't say he was innocent just yet.

    For one, the show doesn't mention that Teresa had already previously complained about Steve Avery's behaviour towards her in the past was creepy and was reluctant to go to his place. Also, he called her a few times a few days before for her to come down to his site (which when you think about it, didn't her ex say she was getting phone calls that she didn't want to answer?)
    Also, two things are for certain; Teresa's body was burnt (show doesn't mention that her mobile phone and jeans were found in Steve's burn barrel) and HE DID have a bonfire. The chances of someone else making the kind of fire needed to burn her body whilst Steve had a bonfire St the same time is uncanny.
    .


    Brendan should be exonerated imo. I read his original report and that testimony is shady as fuck. I'm not sure Richard has watched the whole thing, but if you haven't you'll soon understand how and why his testimony was so descriptive.

    I mean feck, his original testimony claimed he raped her for 5-10 mins. A 16 year old kid having sex for the first time lasting a whole 10 mins? Fuck off, lol.
    There were conflicts on this "bonfire" and the size of it. It got mysteriously bigger over the months by the witness to it. Also there are major inconsistencies about these bones and their location (see above). Noome would burn her then just take a few and place them elsewhere. You would shovel the lot and put them elsewhere !
  • richarddavies 30 Dec 2015 17:46:17 6,608 posts
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    Hmm all good points! It's probably going to be the main bugbear for me this. When you break it down there's so little concrete evidence to go off I'm not sure we'll ever get closure in regards to how she actually met her end.
  • Youthist 30 Dec 2015 17:46:46 13,624 posts
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    Plus why not crush the car? Crusher was used all the time. And he knows exactly how to use it. "No let's hide it under a branch".

    Nah. Bullshit.

  • SuperCoolEskimo 30 Dec 2015 18:16:00 11,430 posts
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    He's innocent, I am convinced of this. There's just too many shady aspects of the prosecution's case that make me believe he was set up and that he did not do it.

    There's some interesting stuff on Reddit from people who live in the area, about other suspects who could have killed her.
  • richarddavies 30 Dec 2015 19:30:13 6,608 posts
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    @SuperCoolEskimo

    I don't suppose you have a link? I can't browse reddit for shit.
  • wobbly_Bob 30 Dec 2015 19:34:37 4,879 posts
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    @richarddavies

    Seconeded! Link, please. I would love to read that.
  • Deleted user 30 December 2015 20:08:05
    Well surely the Dasseys should have been suspects.  The ex boyfriend and brothers also.  Especially the little shit who accessed his sisters voicemail and the phone company said at least one message had to have been deleted. 

    No one else was ever a suspect though.  As far as the cops were concerned it was Avery or nobody.
  • richarddavies 30 Dec 2015 20:28:34 6,608 posts
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    @wobbly_Bob

    My tablets being a tit lately and i can't copy and paste links but i just went on reddit, searched making a murderer and a whole sub reddit came up on it with quite a few threads. Alot to look through but some of it's good!

    EDIT: i wish my tablet could link! Found a thread that a lad has put ALOT of effort into. They've put transcripts of the shows, phonecalls, court records, timelines. Just loads of stuff to look into.

    Edited by richarddavies at 20:35:49 30-12-2015
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 30 Dec 2015 20:33:39 18,503 posts
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    Up to episode 5, utterly compelling viewing. I haven't shouted cunt at the screen this much since the elections were on.
  • Youthist 30 Dec 2015 20:33:41 13,624 posts
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    Another big one is no blood in the garage. Did u see how much crap was in there? Packed with wires and tools and shit all over it. You shoot someone in the head and cut their throat - and yet not a single drop of blood is found anywhere? I get that they could clean the floor - maybe - but come on. Every single piece of the shit in that garage didn't have a tiniest trace of her DNA on it? It is simply hard to believe a horror show went on in there and then every little trace was cleaned up. Impossible in fact.



    Edited by Youthist at 23:08:21 30-12-2015
  • SuperCoolEskimo 30 Dec 2015 21:01:22 11,430 posts
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    https://m.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3y6w4p/evidence_of_a_new_suspect/

    There's lots of interesting stuff on Reddit regarding MAM.
  • ISmoke 30 Dec 2015 21:24:06 1,697 posts
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    Only on episode 2 but I kind of spoilt it for myself. I couldn't believe it was real so ended up Googling the main person and finding out the ending. Going to continue though.

    It's really gripping but it's also extremely infuriating. Definitely wracking up a record saying 'Really?' and 'This guy is an asshole' in each episode

    Edited by ISmoke at 21:24:26 30-12-2015
  • Deleted user 31 December 2015 00:18:32
    Finished ep 9 and my jaw dropping hit new lows when Brendan was convicted on all 3 counts.  Really?  With no evidence whatsoever and only that bizarre confession obtained by emotionally manipulating a slightly backwards 16 year old?  Terrifying.

    Most moving moment of the series was Brendans little cousin under oath, who admitted to making up the details of their conversation and apologised as the tears rolled down her cheeks. 
  • The-Bodybuilder 31 Dec 2015 16:27:40 17,540 posts
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    richarddavies wrote:
    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    Brendan should be exonerated imo. I read his original report and that testimony is shady as fuck. I'm not sure Richard has watched the whole thing, but if you haven't you'll soon understand how and why his testimony was so descriptive.

    I mean feck, his original testimony claimed he raped her for 5-10 mins. A 16 year old kid having sex for the first time lasting a whole 10 mins? Fuck off, lol.
    Ha! I was a don my first time!

    As I said in regards to Brendan it wasn't shown in the show too much but quite a large margin of what actually happened to Teresa (the binding on the bed, the beatings, the rapes, stabbings, throat slitting, shooting etc didn't just come from evidence. It all came from Brendan. That's not just nodding and saying yes to statements the cops were making that's giving quite vasts amounts of details into what happened. Also him losing alot of weight afterwards and crying uncontrollably after it happened. He doesn't add up. I'll be honest though I'm still not entirely sure with Brendan. He is a very simple young lad putting it lightly. And he was fucked over in numerous ways during the case. I certainly wouldn't of convicted him of being guilty either if I was on the jury. Literally the one and only bit of evidence they had was his statements and he said he made them them up later. How that's convictable I don't know
    I read the original transcripts. You literally see the final testimony being moulded from 75 different statements Brendan was making, each more incriminating than the last.

    Also when people say "but his cousin Kayla confirmed his story" that's not completely true either. For one, the DA's story of what happened had already been released to the press. Also, the only confirmed saying by Kayla was to her school counsellor, saying Brendan was acting strange and lost weight (but later it was confirmed Brendan broke up with his gf). Her actual testimony of what Brendan said.... came from the county police..... being interviewed on her own.... just like Brendan's testimony.
  • The-Bodybuilder 31 Dec 2015 16:30:36 17,540 posts
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    Youthist wrote:
    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    Personally, and after doing some more research into the case, I do think he's guilty, however of that trial he should not have been found guilty. He definitely deserves a retrial, but I wouldn't say he was innocent just yet.

    For one, the show doesn't mention that Teresa had already previously complained about Steve Avery's behaviour towards her in the past was creepy and was reluctant to go to his place. Also, he called her a few times a few days before for her to come down to his site (which when you think about it, didn't her ex say she was getting phone calls that she didn't want to answer?)
    Also, two things are for certain; Teresa's body was burnt (show doesn't mention that her mobile phone and jeans were found in Steve's burn barrel) and HE DID have a bonfire. The chances of someone else making the kind of fire needed to burn her body whilst Steve had a bonfire St the same time is uncanny.
    .


    Brendan should be exonerated imo. I read his original report and that testimony is shady as fuck. I'm not sure Richard has watched the whole thing, but if you haven't you'll soon understand how and why his testimony was so descriptive.

    I mean feck, his original testimony claimed he raped her for 5-10 mins. A 16 year old kid having sex for the first time lasting a whole 10 mins? Fuck off, lol.
    Where was all this about previous complaints by her wrt Avery? Source plz.
    The full transcripts are on reddit. Haven't got the details right now, but will post later.
  • The-Bodybuilder 31 Dec 2015 16:30:37 17,540 posts
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    Youthist wrote:
    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    Personally, and after doing some more research into the case, I do think he's guilty, however of that trial he should not have been found guilty. He definitely deserves a retrial, but I wouldn't say he was innocent just yet.

    For one, the show doesn't mention that Teresa had already previously complained about Steve Avery's behaviour towards her in the past was creepy and was reluctant to go to his place. Also, he called her a few times a few days before for her to come down to his site (which when you think about it, didn't her ex say she was getting phone calls that she didn't want to answer?)
    Also, two things are for certain; Teresa's body was burnt (show doesn't mention that her mobile phone and jeans were found in Steve's burn barrel) and HE DID have a bonfire. The chances of someone else making the kind of fire needed to burn her body whilst Steve had a bonfire St the same time is uncanny.
    .


    Brendan should be exonerated imo. I read his original report and that testimony is shady as fuck. I'm not sure Richard has watched the whole thing, but if you haven't you'll soon understand how and why his testimony was so descriptive.

    I mean feck, his original testimony claimed he raped her for 5-10 mins. A 16 year old kid having sex for the first time lasting a whole 10 mins? Fuck off, lol.
    Where was all this about previous complaints by her wrt Avery? Source plz.
    The full transcripts are on reddit. Haven't got the details right now, but will post later.
  • The-Bodybuilder 31 Dec 2015 16:34:42 17,540 posts
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    Also, though it has no bearing on the actual case, the full transcripts also reveals a recorded phone convo with Brendan and his mum where he effectively reveals Steve abused Brendan and his brother, and him asking his mum why she never stopped it. He was also investigated for claims of sexually assaulting another niece, but the case was dropped.

    Not saying Steve killed her, just saying, there is grounds for why the county considered him a dirtbag, he's not as innocent as claimed.
  • richarddavies 31 Dec 2015 16:35:07 6,608 posts
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    Yeah i mention the sub reddit above but couldn't link. There's loads to look at and it's fascinating reading.
  • The-Bodybuilder 31 Dec 2015 16:37:01 17,540 posts
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    Youthist wrote:
    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    Personally, and after doing some more research into the case, I do think he's guilty, however of that trial he should not have been found guilty. He definitely deserves a retrial, but I wouldn't say he was innocent just yet.

    For one, the show doesn't mention that Teresa had already previously complained about Steve Avery's behaviour towards her in the past was creepy and was reluctant to go to his place. Also, he called her a few times a few days before for her to come down to his site (which when you think about it, didn't her ex say she was getting phone calls that she didn't want to answer?)
    Also, two things are for certain; Teresa's body was burnt (show doesn't mention that her mobile phone and jeans were found in Steve's burn barrel) and HE DID have a bonfire. The chances of someone else making the kind of fire needed to burn her body whilst Steve had a bonfire St the same time is uncanny.
    .


    Brendan should be exonerated imo. I read his original report and that testimony is shady as fuck. I'm not sure Richard has watched the whole thing, but if you haven't you'll soon understand how and why his testimony was so descriptive.

    I mean feck, his original testimony claimed he raped her for 5-10 mins. A 16 year old kid having sex for the first time lasting a whole 10 mins? Fuck off, lol.
    There were conflicts on this "bonfire" and the size of it. It got mysteriously bigger over the months by the witness to it. Also there are major inconsistencies about these bones and their location (see above). Noome would burn her then just take a few and place them elsewhere. You would shovel the lot and put them elsewhere !
    I agree in regards to the burn, but the show failed to mention what was found in Steve's burn barrel, which is really incriminating.

    Also, the counter explanation to thru burn remains being either someone else burnt her body and put it in his land, or the police burnt her body and put it in his land. They're corrupt, but I don't think they would go that far.
  • The-Bodybuilder 31 Dec 2015 16:37:01 17,540 posts
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    Youthist wrote:
    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    Personally, and after doing some more research into the case, I do think he's guilty, however of that trial he should not have been found guilty. He definitely deserves a retrial, but I wouldn't say he was innocent just yet.

    For one, the show doesn't mention that Teresa had already previously complained about Steve Avery's behaviour towards her in the past was creepy and was reluctant to go to his place. Also, he called her a few times a few days before for her to come down to his site (which when you think about it, didn't her ex say she was getting phone calls that she didn't want to answer?)
    Also, two things are for certain; Teresa's body was burnt (show doesn't mention that her mobile phone and jeans were found in Steve's burn barrel) and HE DID have a bonfire. The chances of someone else making the kind of fire needed to burn her body whilst Steve had a bonfire St the same time is uncanny.
    .


    Brendan should be exonerated imo. I read his original report and that testimony is shady as fuck. I'm not sure Richard has watched the whole thing, but if you haven't you'll soon understand how and why his testimony was so descriptive.

    I mean feck, his original testimony claimed he raped her for 5-10 mins. A 16 year old kid having sex for the first time lasting a whole 10 mins? Fuck off, lol.
    There were conflicts on this "bonfire" and the size of it. It got mysteriously bigger over the months by the witness to it. Also there are major inconsistencies about these bones and their location (see above). Noome would burn her then just take a few and place them elsewhere. You would shovel the lot and put them elsewhere !
    I agree in regards to the burn, but the show failed to mention what was found in Steve's burn barrel, which is really incriminating.

    Also, the counter explanation to thru burn remains being either someone else burnt her body and put it in his land, or the police burnt her body and put it in his land. They're corrupt, but I don't think they would go that far.
  • The-Bodybuilder 31 Dec 2015 16:40:57 17,540 posts
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    richarddavies wrote:
    funkstar wrote:
    @richarddavies regarding brendan's interrogations, he was clearly guessing for what he thought would be the right answer and get him back to school. The narrative he put forward had no physical evidence to back it up.

    Part of the reason it seems so detailed is when he got 'wrong' answers the police would note them down and then keep asking him for the 'right' answer that fits the narrative they were expecting. For example,
    the bullet: they have to ask him multiple times what he did to her in the garage. eventually they say 'what did you do to her head' and he says 'punched her'. they say 'no, be honest, what else did you to her head' and they are clearly trying to get him to say he shot her.

    Oh yeah they did some shady tactics to get him to say what they wanted. More my point was at that time all they had was the charred bones and an idea that she was shot due to the damage on them. Everything else I said above came from Brendan's testimony. They didn't just start asking ""was she chained to a bed then raped? what about a stabbing was she stabbed up then maybe you slit her throat? etc it all came from him. They didn't just make up a torture porn scenario then fed it to him.

    Again just want to point out to anyone that's not seen it yet it's well worth a watch. Just an amazing documentary. I'm actually enjoying all this talk about it afterwards and peoples thoughts on it. So just to get an idea then. Is there anyone that's seen it that think they are innocent?
    Problem with the testimony is that it goes against all the evidence, including the "evidence" that Steve killed her in the garage. But most important of all, as descriptive as his testimony was, there was no sign of chaining the bedpost, not a single speck of blood, skin or DNA anywhere in the house of either Teresa or Brendan.

    Effectively the evidence clearly shows that did not happen, which is why the DA didn't even use it against Steve. Yet it was enough to put down Brendan?

    The DA's closing statement was "one man and one man only did this", yet Brendan is in prison too by the same DA?
  • UncleLou Moderator 31 Dec 2015 16:53:33 40,099 posts
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    5 episodes in, this is really quite remarkable. And terrifying.

    And his two attorney are pretty much the only ones from the whole people involved that don't seem like they were dropped on their head as kids. And I don't even really mean the Averys.
  • funkstar 31 Dec 2015 16:56:27 3,280 posts
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    @The-Bodybuilder The DA kept changing his story of what happened throughout steve's trial. I can't believe people believed him the slimy bastard.

    edit: and here's a new interview with him http://www.maxim.com/entertainment/making-a-murderer-prosecutor-ken-kratz-2015-12

    Edited by funkstar at 16:58:36 31-12-2015
  • The-Bodybuilder 31 Dec 2015 17:39:53 17,540 posts
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    I've seen that link. In addition to that, it's later been revealed that the only source of that inmate story is Kratz himself, it is not corroborated anywhere else, and rightfully was not used in court, particularly IF that "inmate testimony" came after Kratz' own media attempt of getting his version of events out (and there's nothing to say Kratz wouldn't offer an inmate a reduced sentence for such testimony, seeing as how he acts already).

    The problem even with that interview is that it doesn't even bother to attempt to defend the shady actions of himself and the county police, let alone the fact his claims of what he says happened (the Brendan story) runs counter to the evidence that HIS TEAM provided.


    There is a very strong case that Steve Avery is guilty AND the police planted evidence in which case all of them, including Kratz should face criminal charges if not imprisonment themselves.

    And yes, they clearly put the sex scandal in there to discredit his integrity, but that's what he did to Steve before the case even began, so he's a bit rich to complain. Besides, the fact that his actions only got him a 4-months sentence rather than a loss of his license was a reason why the producers probably did it; to show a judicial system that protects it's own.
  • lovely-cozen 1 Jan 2016 17:57:22 17 posts
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    where are the police supposed to have gotten the key from?

    cos if you believe the evidence was planted, I think you'd have to believe the police were involved in something way more shady. not necessarily killing her, but e.g. finding the crime scene & changing it completely (with all that that entails)
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