Following Ultra HD Blu-ray Page 2

  • Deleted user 2 March 2016 01:13:32
    I'll just use the myriad of articles that agree with me, and the zero articles that agree with you then.
  • mal 2 Mar 2016 01:20:57 29,326 posts
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    It's true that HDCP x.x is an algorithm that any turing complete machine can implement, but I don't believe the PS3 has ever done it that way. Instead, it ships with a HDCP compliant chip, probably a similar one to the one they ship in their dedicated blu-ray players. It it's even possible to bypass that chip and talk to the HDCP receiver from the CPU, I don't believe even the mighty core chip has the power to decode a UHD Bluray, render the 4k frame, encode that according to HDCP 2.2 or whatever, then squirt that over HDMI.

    It's simply inefficient to do HDCP in software when hardware chips that do it are ten-a-penny.
  • Deleted user 2 March 2016 01:27:58
    http://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/feature-buying-4k-tv-what-you-need-know-about-hdcp-22-hdmi-20-hevc-uhd

    To make matters worse, non-HDCP-2.2 devices can’t simply be upgraded to support HDCP 2.2, because specific hardware is required.
    http://www.crutchfield.com/S-YVqkP8ly24Y/learn/what-you-need-to-know-about-hdcp-2-2.html

    many of those products — especially from 2013 — lack support for HDCP 2.2. Worse, these products cannot be upgraded because HDCP 2.2 requires a “hardware” update — it’s not fixable with a firmware update.
    http://www.audiogurus.com/learn/news/4k-hdmi-2-0-compatible-hdcp-2-0/2718

    Firmware Upgrades Can’t Add HDCP 2.2

    Unlike the firmware upgrades that are supposedly facilitating HDMI 2.0 functionality on some AV receivers, you can’t get HDCP 2.2 without an actual chipset. You need the actual chip, and manufacturers, in a rush to market with some 4K support, aren’t waiting around.
    http://www.cepro.com/article/understanding_hdcp_2.2_the_good_the_bad_the_surprises_the_relevance_to_4k_u

    Since HDCP 2.2 is implemented at a hardware level, there is no – and will not be—any firmware upgrade that will enable an HDCP 2.2 source product to work with a non-HDCP 2.2 screen.
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/9152/futureproofing-htpcs-for-the-4k-era-hdmi-hdcp-and-hevc

    Content owners decided that 4K content would require an updated protection mechanism, and this prompted the creation of HDCP 2.2. This requires updated hardware support, and things are made quite messy for consumers since HDMI 2.0 sources and sinks (commonly associated with 4K) are not required to support HDCP 2.2. Early 4K adopters (even those with HDMI 2.0 capabilities) will probably need to upgrade their hardware again, as HDCP 2.2 can't be enabled via firmware updates.

    There's more, if needed.
  • Deleted user 2 March 2016 02:01:56
    Well, here's some market observations including quotes from major manufacturers:

    Compounding the potential problem is that an upgrade to HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 won’t be something that can be handled by a simple firmware or software update. It will require significant amounts of new hardware and would be an update that likely wouldn’t be able to be performed in the field.
    http://www.aldoussystems.co.uk/uploaded/Zektor%204K%20update%20from%20John%20Sciacca%20article.pdf

    Meanwhile, if you can provide a source that says you can upgrade previous HDCP versions to 2.2 through firmware, or run it as a software solution, then that'll settle it, won't it?

    That is, of course, if this isn't one of your weird "THE CELL CAN DO ANYTHING IT'S GOD'S PROCESSOR" things and you're talking purely hypothetical, in which case I will use my PS3 to break into the pentagon as it's hypothetical that if I bash it with a rock hard enough it'll happen.

    Edited by Gremmoo at 02:04:55 02-03-2016
  • ChiefGB 2 Mar 2016 02:09:28 11,445 posts
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    So anyway, imagine force awakens, or any of the big marvel movies in 4k. They would be showstoppers. Now all this nonsence above has me panicking that my 4k tv from last year is no good for this already :(
  • Deleted user 2 March 2016 02:44:46
    I'm not seeing your science outside of "BUT IT'S ALL ONES AND ZEROES". I am seeing lots and lots and lots of links from people in the technology sector who you're just discounting because of some vague paranoia.

    Tell you what, we'll make a bet. If the PS3 enables support for UHD BDs through software only - hell, if the PS4 does it - I'll concede the point and buy you every UHD disc that will ever be released.




    (ps, the PS3 doesn't support reading BDXL discs with its current hardware either)
  • Ryze 2 Mar 2016 02:59:42 3,690 posts
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    Why on earth are you debating anything with that tard. Blocked him last summer.
  • Deleted user 2 March 2016 03:06:21
    The substantiation is the myriad links. MYRIAD. Seriously, search for "HDCP 2.2 upgrade" and see if you can find a single link - one single tiny link - that says it can be enabled by a firmware/software update.

    I'd also like to point out that you yourself cited one of these self serving corporate funded conspiracy articles. You can't cite one and then dismiss the exact same source simply because it doesn't agree with your idiocy. It doesn't work like that.

    And also it continues to be moot as the PS3 and PS4 drives don't support BDXL discs anyway, as confirmed by the Vice President of SCE:

    http://www.siliconera.com/2015/10/23/sce-vice-president-on-the-possibilities-of-an-enhanced-ps4-for-ultra-hd-blu-ray/

    “The Blu-ray disc drive that is currently installed in the PS4 is made exclusively for the Blu-ray disc player, so it cannot read the 3-layer media that is standardized by Ultra HD Blu-ray,” says Ito. “For this reason, the PlayStation 4 models that are out in the market cannot be compatible with Ultra HD Blu-ray.”
  • Deleted user 2 March 2016 03:09:34
    Ryze wrote:
    Why on earth are you debating anything with that tard. Blocked him last summer.
    It's a lazy Tuesday evening with piss all to do. But yes. For the sake of everyone's sanity I'll leave it at that there above.
  • Dougs 2 Mar 2016 05:57:27 90,559 posts
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    Technoishmatt wrote:

    My guess is they will add the option to upgrade existing HD copies to UHD, for a price. VUDU already does this for blu-rays you own that don't have a UV copy.
    Do they really? Only realised the other day just how many BRD I have, most of which aren't UV. Will check that out, ta.
  • Armoured_Bear 2 Mar 2016 06:18:52 27,418 posts
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    Viz is back!
    I thought we may have lost his nuttiness. Definitely not...
  • captainrentboy 2 Mar 2016 07:38:29 1,682 posts
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    Fuck, this thread really took a turn for the worse overnight.
    What's with all the bollocks?
  • nickthegun 2 Mar 2016 07:42:08 78,749 posts
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    He's a hateful cancer on the forum and we would be all better off if he deleted his account.

    I mean, for fucks sake, he keeps pulling out his educational credentials like they aren't actually made up (because if they are real, his lecturers need to be punched in the throat).

    Honestly, he's so fucking stupid it's genuinely not worth engaging him. It's like arguing with the sun coming up. It will still come up tomorrow and you will just look like a clown for shouting at it.
  • Armoured_Bear 2 Mar 2016 08:48:02 27,418 posts
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    PirateRoberts wrote:
    @Gremmo

    Well it doesn't work that way. You are the one making the unsubstantiated assertion, from unsubstantiated assertions of others' opinions.

    I've backed my assertion using science and you've just ignored the logic behind that.

    The reason you are probably struggling to find any technical citation to back your opinion, is that all these so-called experts are just quoting what they were told by companies like Panasonic, Sony and Samsung, and because it was only ever about the fixed hardware receiving device (TVs) the 'it needs new hardware' argument was left unchallenged, as it would be true for such a device.
    No Viz, that would be you.
  • Deleted user 2 March 2016 09:04:10
    PirateRoberts wrote:

    The hardware hdcp 2.2 chips will be little more than accelerating asymmetric key encryption;
    Accelerating being the optimal word there. Anything you can do in hardware you can do in software, but it wouldn't be technical viable for HDCP to be done in software, its as simple as that.

    I could run 3D graphics in software if I really wanted to, but it would pointless as it would be unusable. The same also applies to HDCP. The same also applies to the hardware acceleration that gives you the video in a BR player as well.

    The fact that is also means that hardware needs to be upgraded is of course a bonus to the manufacturers.
  • Blackmarsh63 2 Mar 2016 09:21:08 2,620 posts
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    @ChiefGB You should be fine . Just check one of your HDMI sockets is HDCP 2.2 compatible and your good to go. A slight spanner in the works is if you use an AV amp as this has to be HDCP 2.2 as well. There is a work around for this by using optical out or getting a player that has dual HDMI outputs. (The upcoming £399 Samsung player has both of these luckily.)
  • Deleted user 2 March 2016 09:27:49
    Blackmarsh63 wrote:
    @ChiefGB You should be fine . Just check one of your HDMI sockets is HDCP 2.2 compatible and your good to go. A slight spanner in the works is if you use an AV amp as this has to be HDCP 2.2 as well. There is a work around for this by using optical out or getting a player that has dual HDMI outputs. (The upcoming £399 Samsung player has both of these luckily.)
    Which is antoher reason why I am waiting a couple of years. I bought a new amp last year that was supposedly 4K ready (future proofed) but now HDCP 2.2 has come it no longer is, technically speaking it might still work, but who knows.

    Every time a new standard comes out it seems to take longer for everyone to agree on sorting out the mess. At least back in the day you had two choices VHS or Betamax, and that was it.
  • nickthegun 2 Mar 2016 09:30:57 78,749 posts
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    craigy wrote:
    Any time someone disagrees with me in future I'm gonna nail 'em with the "I've backed my assertion using science" line. It's a belter. Instant winner.

    SCIENCE!
    And if that doesn't work, pull out the old fake education credentials.

    'Well, actually if you had a degree in lion taming like I do, you would know that a stool works better than a chair for poking them'
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 2 Mar 2016 09:41:22 21,074 posts
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    Always with the lion taming.
  • nickthegun 2 Mar 2016 09:44:04 78,749 posts
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    Well, if you had a degree in lion taming, like what I do, you would know it's a vital skill for anyone wanting to live in modern society.
  • Psiloc 2 Mar 2016 09:45:47 5,197 posts
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    PirateRoberts wrote:
    Its not vague paranoia, it is the absence of substantiation for an assertion. Substantiation, proof or a methodology are all things that well educated people would see as fundamental aspects of any argument before taking an opinion as fact.

    Your lack of citation for your opinion, and then hiding behind the self serving companies validating your stance in the long run - by withholding the feature - is pretty poor form from you. Being as invested in your side of this argument as you are, you too should want to know if there is a valid 'why' to the opinions you are quoting.
    How can you possibly have written this out so carefully without realising "holy shit, that's me"?
  • Armoured_Bear 2 Mar 2016 09:54:08 27,418 posts
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    Blackmarsh63 wrote:
    @ChiefGB You should be fine . Just check one of your HDMI sockets is HDCP 2.2 compatible and your good to go. A slight spanner in the works is if you use an AV amp as this has to be HDCP 2.2 as well. There is a work around for this by using optical out or getting a player that has dual HDMI outputs. (The upcoming £399 Samsung player has both of these luckily.)
    Optical out means no HD Audio though...
  • Coughthulu 2 Mar 2016 10:04:49 223 posts
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    AFAIK, the PS3 uses a customised SilImage 9134 HDMI transmitter which also carries out the HDCP negotiation.

    SilImage 9134

    These parts are not FPGA, nor do they include any sort of NV memory, so updating them in-situ is impossible.

    It seems extremely unlikely the PS3 will ever be able to output anything other than 1.4, unless Shuhei Yoshida's going to come round and do a BGA reball on every single PS3 ever made.
  • Tomo 2 Mar 2016 10:12:25 16,773 posts
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    Meh. Still watching DVDs, let alone Blu-Ray.
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