Following Ultra HD Blu-ray Page 3

  • Armoured_Bear 2 Mar 2016 10:20:48 26,678 posts
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    Coughthulu wrote:
    AFAIK, the PS3 uses a customised SilImage 9134 HDMI transmitter which also carries out the HDCP negotiation.

    SilImage 9134

    These parts are not FPGA, nor do they include any sort of NV memory, so updating them in-situ is impossible.

    It seems extremely unlikely the PS3 will ever be able to output anything other than 1.4, unless Shuhei Yoshida's going to come round and do a BGA reball on every single PS3 ever made.
    BUT IT'S ALL JUST ONES AND ZEROES!!!
  • Deleted user 2 March 2016 10:27:33
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    BUT IT'S ALL JUST ONES AND ZEROES!!!
    Technically its ONE's OR ZERO's ... It would only be ONE's AND ZERO's if it were a quantum computer.

    Edited by SwissTony1994 at 10:27:50 02-03-2016
  • Coughthulu 2 Mar 2016 10:29:34 223 posts
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    SwissTony1994 wrote:
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    BUT IT'S ALL JUST ONES AND ZEROES!!!
    Technically its ONE's OR ZERO's ... It would only be ONE's AND ZERO's if it were a quantum computer.
    This is Microsoft's plan for the XBox One now, innit? :-D
  • Fake_Blood 2 Mar 2016 10:37:27 9,485 posts
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    Finally the quality of brrips will go up.
  • Deleted user 2 March 2016 10:44:14
    Fake_Blood wrote:
    Finally the quality of brrips will go up.
    Eh .. Don't follow? All my BR Rips are 1:1 quality of the original disc , that I own.
  • Armoured_Bear 2 Mar 2016 10:45:24 26,678 posts
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    SwissTony1994 wrote:
    Fake_Blood wrote:
    Finally the quality of brrips will go up.
    Eh .. Don't follow? All my BR Rips are 1:1 quality of the original disc , that I own.
    What do you use?
  • Deleted user 2 March 2016 10:48:26
    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    SwissTony1994 wrote:
    Fake_Blood wrote:
    Finally the quality of brrips will go up.
    Eh .. Don't follow? All my BR Rips are 1:1 quality of the original disc , that I own.
    What do you use?
    DVDFab & Mkvnixtools
  • ChiefGB 2 Mar 2016 11:01:12 10,685 posts
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    @Blackmarsh63 according to richer sounds website it does, so happy days.
  • Blackmarsh63 2 Mar 2016 11:01:49 2,377 posts
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    @Armoured_Bear The dual HDMI output solves this. Its not ideal but does the job if you amp isn't HDCP 2.2.
  • ChiefGB 2 Mar 2016 11:11:09 10,685 posts
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    Oh here's another question, what about 3d can we have 4k 3d or will we need another tv to get that?
  • Armoured_Bear 2 Mar 2016 11:12:33 26,678 posts
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    PirateRoberts wrote:
    Coughthulu wrote:
    AFAIK, the PS3 uses a customised SilImage 9134 HDMI transmitter which also carries out the HDCP negotiation.

    SilImage 9134

    These parts are not FPGA, nor do they include any sort of NV memory, so updating them in-situ is impossible.

    It seems extremely unlikely the PS3 will ever be able to output anything other than 1.4, unless Shuhei Yoshida's going to come round and do a BGA reball on every single PS3 ever made.
    Excellent comment!

    But what exactly would stop the PS3's 'customised' sillimage 9134 chip being able to transmit/receive a hdmi signal (in pass-through mode) with the chip HDCP disabled? As every other hdmi display device since 1.0, can fallback to support pass-through mode, where the hdcp encryption is disabled. And this is even a selectable option on the PS4, for people doing hdmi captures.

    So, is there anything prohibiting Sony/Microsoft other than HDCP licensing costs; or maybe performance using the console's hdmi chip in pass-through mode, and have the consoles build the a HDCP 2.2 encrypted signal with general compute and pass it through?
    You're suggesting that it's done in software?
  • Armoured_Bear 2 Mar 2016 11:12:50 26,678 posts
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    ChiefGB wrote:
    Oh here's another question, what about 3d can we have 4k 3d or will we need another tv to get that?
    3d is dead
  • Coughthulu 2 Mar 2016 11:21:08 223 posts
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    PirateRoberts wrote:
    Coughthulu wrote:
    AFAIK, the PS3 uses a customised SilImage 9134 HDMI transmitter which also carries out the HDCP negotiation.

    SilImage 9134

    These parts are not FPGA, nor do they include any sort of NV memory, so updating them in-situ is impossible.

    So, is there anything prohibiting Sony/Microsoft other than HDCP licensing costs; or maybe performance using the console's hdmi chip in pass-through mode, and have the consoles build the a HDCP 2.2 encrypted signal with general compute and pass it through?
    Yes. In the case of the 9134, it doesn't have a backchannel to the PS3 for HDCP passthrough.

    Therefore irrespective of building an HDCP 2.2 frame to pass to it (which I don't believe you could, because the input to the transmitter is video/audio only and I doubt the control interface has any other means for passing through HDCP), there's no way for the display you're trying to negotiate with to be able to respond to the authentication request.

    So it'd never connect.

    I suspect the parts used in MS consoles are of a similar type. When you build a console/video player/connected media device, you try and keep the BoM as low as possible. To do this, you buy parts that do what you need and no more. Usually this means chipsets that are all-singing, all-dancing are not used, so you have to live with the design choices you made.
  • Blackmarsh63 2 Mar 2016 11:24:20 2,377 posts
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    @Armoured_Bear The new players support the 'old' 1080p 3d disks but,yes, 4k 3d is not going to be a thing.
  • captainrentboy 2 Mar 2016 11:46:29 1,682 posts
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    You're literally the only person on these forums where I start reading what you've written, and it all goes blurry and unintelligible a few words in, so I just give up and move on.
    It's weird.
  • Blackmarsh63 2 Mar 2016 11:50:21 2,377 posts
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    @captainrentboy It's like a Digital Foundry article :)
  • PierrePressure 2 Mar 2016 11:55:27 942 posts
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    I just wanted to know if there's any chance 4K blurays would work on my PS4 in the future :cry:
  • Deleted user 2 March 2016 12:00:51
    PierrePressure wrote:
    I just wanted to know if there's any chance 4K blurays would work on my PS4 in the future :cry:
    No .. in one word.
  • Coughthulu 2 Mar 2016 12:02:26 223 posts
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    PirateRoberts wrote:
    Yeah, we are definitely on the same page for what is involved to make it work. But I wouldn't be suggesting that the TV gets the control signal telling it, that the PS3 is working in pass-through.

    I suspect it is was those very abilities that were the reason Sony will have used a 'customised' versions as you said.

    So I'd be expecting the PS3(PS4/X1) to be able control the entire contents of the control and data packets that passes through(and out) of the hdmi port, and the receiving TV would be completely oblivious to the limits of the connecting device, other than what the device tells it through the hdmi signal.
    It can't, though. The PS3 passes the video frame as YUV/RGB to the transmitter, which then encodes it and adds an HDCP stream. The only way the console would be able to do all of this itself is if it could bypass the HDMI transmitter, and it can't because it relies completely on it to do carry out HDMI timing and encoding.

    The transmitter itself will not accept HDCP from another source (I'd be extremely surprised if any HDMI/HDCP chip did, it'd be open to all sorts of abuse and certainly wouldn't pass certification). It is either told to enable or disable HDCP.
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 2 Mar 2016 12:03:37 19,711 posts
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    captainrentboy wrote:
    You're literally the only person on these forums where I start reading what you've written, and it all goes blurry and unintelligible a few words in, so I just give up and move on.
    It's weird.
    That just means you have a fully operational horse shit filter. The brain has a defence mechanism which causes it to shut down when a large amount of unfiltered horse shit hits it all at once. It designed to stop you engaging with the horse shit monger. Unfortunately a few on here have a broken horse shit filter which is why he continues to fester here.
  • Coughthulu 2 Mar 2016 12:06:27 223 posts
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    Decks wrote:
    captainrentboy wrote:
    You're literally the only person on these forums where I start reading what you've written, and it all goes blurry and unintelligible a few words in, so I just give up and move on.
    It's weird.
    That just means you have a fully operational horse shit filter. The brain has a defence mechanism which causes it to shut down when a large amount of unfiltered horse shit hits it all at once. It designed to stop you engaging with the horse shit monger. Unfortunately a few on here have a broken horse shit filter which is why he continues to fester here.
    Sorry. Me shut up now.
  • beastmaster 2 Mar 2016 12:32:04 19,223 posts
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    PierrePressure wrote:
    I just wanted to know if there's any chance 4K blurays would work on my PS4 in the future :cry:
    I thought 4K was supported on PS4. My 4K Ghostbustets Blu-Ray works just fine. On a normal 1080p TV though. The remaster is much better than standard BR and yes, there is a noticeable difference.

    Would probably look awesome on a 4K telly.
  • DFawkes Friendliest Forumite, 2016 2 Mar 2016 12:44:39 32,229 posts
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    I thought Ghostbusters was just "Mastered in 4K"?
  • Deleted user 2 March 2016 13:47:50
    DFawkes wrote:
    I thought Ghostbusters was just "Mastered in 4K"?
    Yeah its 2K in reality, which is going to be the case for pretty much any modern film as well as CGI is filmed in 2K, or has been up until very recently.
  • mal 2 Mar 2016 13:56:39 29,326 posts
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    Isn't 1080p basically a little less than 1K though, so if it's a plain old 1080p bluray, that's what it'll be.
  • Deleted user 2 March 2016 14:10:37
    http://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-blu-ray-software/2309090-lists-fake-real-4k-uhd-blu-rays-2k-vs-4k.html

    Digital effects are 99% done in 2K so even with true 4K discs you are still going to get 2K CGI assets. Whether any one will notice or care is another thing entirely of course.
  • monkman76 2 Mar 2016 14:17:56 14,714 posts
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    mal wrote:
    Isn't 1080p basically a little less than 1K though, so if it's a plain old 1080p bluray, that's what it'll be.
    4K is 4096 x 2160 pixels, i.e. it's referring to the horizontal count. 1080p is 1920 x 1080, so is more or less 2K.
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