Following Nioh Page 4

  • Bulbatron 1 Sep 2016 17:32:54 946 posts
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    Well, I've restocked on elixirs, got a couple of talismans, got a bomb thingy, some sacred water and my guardian spirit is ready to go. I'll give the first boss another go in a bit!

    Only thing is, I'm not sure whether to try using a heavy weapon on high stance with strong attacks or use my dual swords on mid stance with normal attacks, which has worked well enough for me so far on other enemies.

    Edited to add:

    Aaand I'm all depressed and demorralised again. Gave it my best effort and still failed. Wanna’ see?

    https://youtu.be/P_MD-lCGtcY

    Edited by Bulbatron at 21:37:59 01-09-2016
  • Baddamobs 1 Sep 2016 23:07:21 136 posts
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    @Bulbatron

    I'm not gonna claim I'm super-amazing at this game by any stretch, but can I offer just two tips?

    1) Try to start learning to Ki pulse. The game's combat is fast and brutal, and the sooner you get your Ki back, even only a little bit, can save you a trip back to the nearest shrine. Try just practicing just by swinging to start off with, and then build up to normal enemies. Learning this WILL help.

    2) As completely ass-backwards as it sounds, you need to be just a LITTLE bit more aggressive: you're backing yourself into corners a lot, and drawing out the fight by backing up after every time your attack. The long the fight goes on, the more time the boss has to get lucky and combo you to death. Don't go crazy: running out of Ki will get you kill, but finding that balance between attack and defense (with the Ki pulse from before) will have you practically dancing around the big son of a gun.

    Ps: Please don't think too negatively of losing. I know it can be super disheartening to try your best and still lose, but remember that every time your fight him (win or loose) you learn a little bit more about the boss. Nioh's a tough nut to crack, but after watching the video I'm confident you can crack it.

    (Sorry for the wall of text >_>)
  • grassyknoll 1 Sep 2016 23:34:58 703 posts
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    @Bulbatron Unfortunately I've been called away with work or I'd record some gameplay. Agree with the other posters points, you definitely needs to be a bit more aggressive & master the Ki Pulse (active it just as a blue halo appears around your characters body). I'd also recommended just dodging around the boss first (perhaps a couple of times), get use to it's timings and then have a proper run through.
  • Bulbatron 1 Sep 2016 23:46:24 946 posts
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    @Baddamobs Thank You very much for the heartening reply. I've been using ki pulse fine in the rest of the demo, but for some reason, I just keep forgetting during the boss fight! I think I've got the first phase more or less sorted. The reason I was backing up so much was to ensure that I would have enough room to back away from him again after dodging behind him and getting those couple of hits in. Those metal balls have a wide radius!

    Once he loses the metal balls he just goes berserk and I find his behaviour much harder to predict. Also, he seems to spread more of that Yokai realm crap everywhere at that point. I'll keep trying, I guess. Another session of farming tomorrow, before I can confront him again. I'll be gutted if I miss out on the Mark of the Conqueror because of this boss. Somehow, I have to beat him by Tuesday. That's part of the problem. I do feel I could beat him with time and practice, but knowing I need to do it by Tuesday, when the demo comes to an end, really adds to the pressure!

    @grassyknoll Yeah, I'll have to try and be more aggressive! He has soooo much HP!

    Edited by Bulbatron at 23:48:32 01-09-2016

    Edited by Bulbatron at 23:56:28 01-09-2016
  • Malek86 2 Sep 2016 09:09:31 8,761 posts
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    Just like the Souls games, the whole point of bosses is understanding their attacks (which always have some kind of tell). Farming or leveling up more has no meaning: if you understand the boss, there's no need. If you don't, you'll just be killed anyway.

    Well, what I did was keep at a distance for a while and learn his moves. Surprisingly, he got easier when he lost the metal balls, at least he wasn't using them as rotating shields anymore. The hardest move to predict was the single-handed slam, which had a different timing from the others, so it kept getting me. Other than that, the best time to get a few hits in is after he smashes his body to the ground.

    But that's why you should keep your distance at first, to learn how he acts. Better waste some time and get his moves down properly, than rush in and be killed in the process. After all, there's no timer.

    Btw, keep your distance but don't get backed into a corner. That will give you less room for maneuvering.

    Edited by Malek86 at 09:12:18 02-09-2016
  • FanBoysSuck 2 Sep 2016 10:10:51 1,649 posts
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    This game is awesome but that boss is stupid. I managed to beat him after two solid hours of attempts. It got to the point where I could predict all his moves so I managed to take him down by dodging everything.

    While it's a huge improvement over the alpha I think a few things need to be addressed:

    1. If you're only given a tiny amount of regenerating healing items, at least make them heal you close to full health. Blocking the boss's cannon ball throw with full health and ki reduces you to almost no health and takes two of your potential 4 healing items up. That's just stupid.

    2. Ki regeneration. I really hate this as it distracts you from what's going on. Couple it with keeping track of stances and you've got an overly complicated battle system where you spend more time looking at the UI than you do at the enemy you're fighting. This needs streamlining in some way.

    3. Iframe window needs to be bigger. It's way too tight at the moment.
  • Gregolution 2 Sep 2016 10:15:25 9,485 posts
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    FanBoysSuck wrote:


    2. Ki regeneration. I really hate this as it distracts you from what's going on. Couple it with keeping track of stances and you've got an overly complicated battle system where you spend more time looking at the UI than you do at the enemy you're fighting. This needs streamlining in some way.

    Agree elsewhere but not so sure about this. I think it's something you'll get used to - more tactical options are a good thing.
  • Gregolution 2 Sep 2016 10:59:12 9,485 posts
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    the one thing i don't like is the looting. why do you have to hold circle just to see the items pop up and then pick up each individually?
  • Baddamobs 2 Sep 2016 11:33:24 136 posts
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    @Gregolution I think it's too discourage the 'death run'/loot-n-die thing that you could use in Dark Souls (ie, go into a situation knowing you'll die, but because you grabbed the item it doesn't matter)

    It's good in the sense that you have to work for it, but at the same time getting a trashy item after struggling through an encounter does feel a bit pants.
  • grassyknoll 2 Sep 2016 11:38:27 703 posts
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    FanBoysSuck wrote:

    2. Ki regeneration. I really hate this as it distracts you from what's going on. Couple it with keeping track of stances and you've got an overly complicated battle system where you spend more time looking at the UI than you do at the enemy you're fighting. This needs streamlining in some way.
    I don't want to stay you're playing it wrong, but you're playing it wrong. Ki Pulse mastery is fundamentally what the game is about.
  • Gregolution 2 Sep 2016 11:38:36 9,485 posts
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    @Baddamobs

    ah that's a very good point actually.
  • FanBoysSuck 2 Sep 2016 12:16:39 1,649 posts
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    Gregolution wrote:
    FanBoysSuck wrote:


    2. Ki regeneration. I really hate this as it distracts you from what's going on. Couple it with keeping track of stances and you've got an overly complicated battle system where you spend more time looking at the UI than you do at the enemy you're fighting. This needs streamlining in some way.

    Agree elsewhere but not so sure about this. I think it's something you'll get used to - more tactical options are a good thing.
    Oh I'm not saying the options are a bad thing. I just feel that accessing them and keeping track of them needs to be streamlined. Maybe an optional little icon above you dude's head with the stance? That an optionally have stamina above his head like the enemies so you can time the regenerations without glancing at the corner of the screen? I want all the feedback I need in a battle without having to glance at 2 different sections of the screen.
  • FanBoysSuck 2 Sep 2016 12:19:20 1,649 posts
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    grassyknoll wrote:
    FanBoysSuck wrote:

    2. Ki regeneration. I really hate this as it distracts you from what's going on. Couple it with keeping track of stances and you've got an overly complicated battle system where you spend more time looking at the UI than you do at the enemy you're fighting. This needs streamlining in some way.
    I don't want to stay you're playing it wrong, but you're playing it wrong. Ki Pulse mastery is fundamentally what the game is about.
    Sorry what I'm getting at is its overcomplexity. Having, say, a little stamina bar over the guys head like the enemies so it's easier to keep track of when to hit the pulse would go a long way. As would an icon for what stance you're in. Optional, like most UI elements, of course.
  • Gregolution 2 Sep 2016 12:32:07 9,485 posts
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    FanBoysSuck wrote:
    Gregolution wrote:
    FanBoysSuck wrote:


    2. Ki regeneration. I really hate this as it distracts you from what's going on. Couple it with keeping track of stances and you've got an overly complicated battle system where you spend more time looking at the UI than you do at the enemy you're fighting. This needs streamlining in some way.

    Agree elsewhere but not so sure about this. I think it's something you'll get used to - more tactical options are a good thing.
    Oh I'm not saying the options are a bad thing. I just feel that accessing them and keeping track of them needs to be streamlined. Maybe an optional little icon above you dude's head with the stance? That an optionally have stamina above his head like the enemies so you can time the regenerations without glancing at the corner of the screen? I want all the feedback I need in a battle without having to glance at 2 different sections of the screen.
    yeah fair enough, that's not a bad idea
  • grassyknoll 2 Sep 2016 12:54:33 703 posts
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    @FanBoysSuck There's already a visual cue when to get a optimal Ki Pulse, there's a blue halo that surrounds your character. No need to look at the stamina bar.
  • FanBoysSuck 2 Sep 2016 13:12:40 1,649 posts
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    @grassyknoll I somehow missed this! I'll have a look over the weekend. An icon for stances would still be nice.
  • Gregolution 2 Sep 2016 13:17:27 9,485 posts
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    How come I can't pre order this on psn!? it's weird. I thought it's out in Oct?
  • grassyknoll 2 Sep 2016 15:22:58 703 posts
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    @FanBoysSuck There's a feedback form where you can make comments & recommendations, I'll post it later.
  • grassyknoll 2 Sep 2016 15:23:41 703 posts
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    @Gregolution No release date as of yet (imagine it'll be revealed at TGS in 2 weeks).
  • Malek86 2 Sep 2016 17:11:45 8,761 posts
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    FanBoysSuck wrote:
    This game is awesome but that boss is stupid. I managed to beat him after two solid hours of attempts. It got to the point where I could predict all his moves so I managed to take him down by dodging everything.
    I think that's pretty much the point, though. These games are always easier when you dodge rather than block.

    And if you are trying to block a huge flying cannonball instead of dodging it, maybe you should reconsider your priorities.
  • Bulbatron 2 Sep 2016 20:46:34 946 posts
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    I'm getting closer to defeating the first boss, but I really don't know what else to try, i have tried to take onboard all the tips I've been given. The first phase isn't too bad, but I just come apart on the second phase. I might have defeated him on this occasion if only I'd had my guardian spirit ready. Gutted. Absolutely fucking heartbreaking.

    https://youtu.be/XNoaqel4JUg
  • Malek86 2 Sep 2016 21:17:16 8,761 posts
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    @Bulbatron at this point, I'd say... call someone for help? I don't know how it works in this game, but I think you can do that from the shrine.
  • Bulbatron 3 Sep 2016 18:34:19 946 posts
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    I DID IT! Finally defeated Onryoki!

    https://youtu.be/kY5PZne95Ns

    The tips I got here definitely helped. Still not sure whether to get the full game. I did enjoy the exploration, but that boss was a real pain in the ass, and presumably the bosses will only get harder, requiring even more skill from the player and having more HP!

    Still, nice to have at least defeated Onryoki.
  • Malek86 3 Sep 2016 18:53:06 8,761 posts
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    Yeah, I was just thinking that. If you had this much trouble with one boss, I'm not sure if you'd enjoy the full game. It will probably be very frustrating if you get stuck somewhere.
  • Bulbatron 3 Sep 2016 19:19:27 946 posts
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    @Malek86 You're probably right. I think what I was doing wrong is changing my tactics too much when Onryoki went to his second phase. I should have just kept dodging behind him when he lunged at me, remembering only to dodge the thrown cannon-balls and stay out of the Yokai mist. Once I realised this and fully adopted those tactics, I succeeded, and that was the attempt shown in the video. Afterwards, I felt a bit stupid for not having seen it earlier.

    I managed the entirety of the Bloodborne base game without summoning, which I was quite pleased about since it was my first 'Souls' style experience. I did co-operate for most of the Chalice Dungeon stuff and had summoned help for all but one of the bosses in the Old Hunters expansion.

    I'm planning to play the rest of the 'Souls' games next year. If I'd already played them, then maybe I'd be better at Nioh.

    I did mostly enjoy my time with the demo and I want to buy the full game of Nioh (if only to see what the 'Mark of the Conqueror' reward turns out to be), but I'm not sure I'll be able to cope with it, really. The readon the game caught my eye to begin with was that I liked the atmospheric look and supernatural flavour of the game.

    Edited by Bulbatron at 19:22:57 03-09-2016
  • grassyknoll 3 Sep 2016 19:20:41 703 posts
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    Good stuff! I think a big part of why you're struggling is you're feeling the pressure to finish because the beta is over. If you like the game (& maybe have to coop parts of it), I'd buy it. It's a great game (even if I dislike some changes) and we don't get many of those. I might even order a collector's edition.
  • Bulbatron 3 Sep 2016 19:35:21 946 posts
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    @grassyknoll Yeah, having to beat him before the demo was removed was definitely not helping! I always prefer to take my time, which is not something you can really do with a demo like this.
  • grassyknoll 3 Sep 2016 19:55:49 703 posts
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    @Bulbatron If you've stuck around this much you must love the game, which makes me think you should buy it (I want everyone too!).
  • grassyknoll 6 Sep 2016 22:44:03 703 posts
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    So I've had a go on the demo again (been busy & away for the last week), anyone playing it & finding it more difficult than before? Not sure if it's just me or the game itself?
  • Bulbatron 7 Sep 2016 01:17:42 946 posts
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    From what I've played, it seems about the same difficulty as before, to me. The demo will be unavailable soon, if it hasn't gone already.
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