Following Post Poll... Britain decided to... Page 1353

  • chopsen 14 Mar 2019 22:02:38 20,457 posts
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    disusedgenius wrote:

    Basically I don't get it and don't know how to feel about it.
    Trying to reverse engineer what happened: Government said it would whip against their own motion if any of the amendments passed, but not if they were all voted down. If the motion passed then it establishes an extension, which blows the "my deal or no deal" line May's been peddling out of the water. This then allows MV3 to go ahead, which can/could/would be amended with a "and if this fails, then we must go back to people" type amendment. And the justification for "no deal" as an option is gone, due to it being repeatedly voted down before.

    That's the only logic I can make of it. However, given how fucking close some of those votes were, I'm not sure that any Machiavellian shenanigans was necessary. If labour had gone in big for a 2nd Ref and whipped it, maybe some Tory rebels would have been tempted to back it as it might have worked.

    Quite frankly, who the fuck knows. I completely agree with you. They should have just gone for it.

    Edited by chopsen at 22:03:40 14-03-2019
  • Zomoniac 14 Mar 2019 22:03:43 9,938 posts
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    monkman76 wrote:
    'Do a Brexit' is so going to be a euphemism for 'fuck yourself over' by the time our kids are grown up.
    Well, from my viewpoint it would be preferable to the current “doing a Leeds” :)
  • Armoured_Bear 14 Mar 2019 22:04:56 25,910 posts
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    I've been at a work do all night, so Labour fucked it again?
  • Psychotext 14 Mar 2019 22:30:29 64,756 posts
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    @Armoured_Bear No, this was completely the wrong time to try and get a people's vote. SNP and TIG fucked it. We may never get a vote now
  • ZuluHero 14 Mar 2019 22:37:19 7,191 posts
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    Officially Labour are still supporting a PV though.
  • Armoured_Bear 14 Mar 2019 22:43:48 25,910 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    @Armoured_Bear No, this was completely the wrong time to try and get a people's vote. SNP and TIG fucked it. We may never get a vote now
    Why was it the wrong time?
  • ZuluHero 14 Mar 2019 22:47:33 7,191 posts
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    It wouldn't have passed the vote in the commons and would make it harder to try and pass it again.
  • Rodney 14 Mar 2019 22:47:55 3,766 posts
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    It was only an amendment though right. So they coukd attach the same ammendment to a differenf vote, right?
  • Dgzter 14 Mar 2019 23:03:26 2,624 posts
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    Yes, and they will. It was just politicking, ultimately; the Lib Dems, SNP, PC, Greens and the TIG are playing to their support base. It hasn’t ‘fucked’ anything; that’s just emotional, impassioned overreaction. Let’s try to keep our heads a bit here, eh?

    The threat is May managing to squeeze her deal through at the third attempt next week, but that still seems like a fairly remote possibility at this stage.

    He says ...
  • Psychotext 14 Mar 2019 23:07:26 64,756 posts
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    Doesn't matter, the well is already poisoned.

    What they needed to do was get the delay agreed and then let the EU put some pressure on for some sort of reason to why they should allow the extension.

    It was never going to pass today, and now opponents of it can rightfully point to the fact that parliament is against it (and they'll argue so are the population).

    That might not matter to May (see incoming V3 vote), but the rest of parliament is another story.

    It's something average Joe doesn't seem to understand. Votes in parliament are about both confidence and momentum. Now the people's vote campaign has neither.

    Edited by Psychotext at 23:08:59 14-03-2019
  • disusedgenius 14 Mar 2019 23:16:40 9,597 posts
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    chopsen wrote:
    Quite frankly, who the fuck knows. I completely agree with you. They should have just gone for it.
    The one thing I do wonder which has been mentioned somewhere is everyone expected Bercow to pick the anti-referendum amendment to be voted on today (which he might well should have done, if you're being even handed). If/when that gets voted down it gives a lot of momentum for a PV in the next phase of voting.

    But then things get switched around, Labour doesn't/can't pivot their plans either due to their amendments or they just don't want to and everything collapses in on itself.

    But again, I have no idea who to be generous to in this situation. Probably no one?
  • chopsen 14 Mar 2019 23:28:05 20,457 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    .

    It's something average Joe doesn't seem to understand. Votes in parliament are about both confidence and momentum.
    So we're heading towards a vote on May's deal for the 3rd time despite it already being voted down by historically hilariously margins twice because....?
  • Armoured_Bear 14 Mar 2019 23:32:41 25,910 posts
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    chopsen wrote:
    Psychotext wrote:
    .

    It's something average Joe doesn't seem to understand. Votes in parliament are about both confidence and momentum.
    So we're heading towards a vote on May's deal for the 3rd time despite it already being voted down by historically hilariously margins twice because....?
    Because the maybot cannot be stopped.
  • Psychotext 14 Mar 2019 23:38:18 64,756 posts
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    Because she knows it's her deal vs no deal. It's not complicated. The closer it gets to the automatic no deal date, the more likely she is to get it passed (and if it's not passed the third time, she'll go for four).

    No-one who wants Brexit or is scared of the swivel eyed loons they have for constituents is going to allow us to get anywhere near a referendum.

    The only way it stands a chance of happening is if it comes down to a flat out choice of revoke vs no-deal, because no-deal is the only thing scarier to most parliamentarians than potentially losing the gammon vote.

    Edited by Psychotext at 23:39:49 14-03-2019
  • FWB 14 Mar 2019 23:39:07 55,752 posts
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    If this entire debacle doesn't highlight how rotten to the core the British political system is in the 21st century, nothing will. And quite frankly I want nothing to do with a country that behaves like this.

    I have very little, if any, hope that after all this we will see major reform. It's clear that large parts of the population so fucking thick/ignorant of what the political elite do, and how shitty our structures are in the modern age.

    Edited by FWB at 23:41:21 14-03-2019
  • chopsen 15 Mar 2019 00:09:28 20,457 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    Because she knows it's her deal vs no deal.
    ...
    The only way it stands a chance of happening is if it comes down to a flat out choice of revoke vs no-deal, .
    What?
  • Armoured_Bear 15 Mar 2019 00:29:59 25,910 posts
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    https://twitter.com/angusrobertson/status/1106255122756182016?s=21

    UPDATE - The UK Parliament has now voted against:
    - Theresa May's deal (twice)
    - No deal
    - Customs union
    - EEA
    - Second referendum
    - Malthouse compromise
    - Parliament taking control
    - Indicative votes
  • Psychotext 15 Mar 2019 00:42:08 64,756 posts
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    chopsen wrote:

    What?
    It's not a complicated concept. The only way parliament will ever vote to allow another referendum is if it's to force the public to decide between a no deal and revoking article 50.

    They'll never take responsibility for either themselves, because they're fucking gutless wastes of oxygen.

    Edit - If you're asking about May its a different argument. She knows she'll eventually win because as things stand, on the final day of all of this it'll come down to her deal vs no deal... and anyone with even half a conscience is going to vote to stop no deal (so her deal will win easily).

    Edited by Psychotext at 00:44:57 15-03-2019
  • Rodney 15 Mar 2019 00:58:13 3,766 posts
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    Its amazing the British population have been so docile through all this. No mass protests to speak of.

    Say what you want about Brexit campaigners, they are better at mobilising their supporters.

    I suspect its because Brexit sentiment is primarily driven by emotion and identity wheras remaining is more of a pragmatic economic position so harder to get excited about
  • GoatApocalypse 15 Mar 2019 06:10:17 5,329 posts
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    Armoured_Bear wrote:
    https://twitter.com/angusrobertson/status/1106255122756182016?s=21

    UPDATE - The UK Parliament has now voted against:
    - Theresa May's deal (twice)
    - No deal
    - Customs union
    - EEA
    - Second referendum
    - Malthouse compromise
    - Parliament taking control
    - Indicative votes
    We've now reached what can only be described as a Permatantrum.

    Edited by GoatApocalypse at 06:10:32 15-03-2019
  • FWB 15 Mar 2019 06:25:57 55,752 posts
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    Rodney wrote:
    Its amazing the British population have been so docile through all this. No mass protests to speak of.

    Say what you want about Brexit campaigners, they are better at mobilising their supporters.

    I suspect its because Brexit sentiment is primarily driven by emotion and identity wheras remaining is more of a pragmatic economic position so harder to get excited about
    That, but I also think large parts have no idea/take no interest in it. They have become so spoiled with the relatively good life they've had, they don't realise what is about to happen.

    Quite a few in my circle don't and don't want to hear about it. They genuinely think nothing is going to change at the end of the month, even with a no deal. Yes. People are THAT ignorant.

    Edited by FWB at 06:27:33 15-03-2019
  • elstoof 15 Mar 2019 07:13:09 22,632 posts
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    What? There were 700,000 on a march last October. There’s another one planned next Saturday for Peoples Vote
  • Frogofdoom 15 Mar 2019 07:18:42 12,149 posts
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    https://twitter.com/TheScepticIsle/status/1106228189368631297?s=19

    A long read but well worth it.
  • FWB 15 Mar 2019 07:21:40 55,752 posts
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    elstoof wrote:
    What? There were 700,000 on a march last October. There’s another one planned next Saturday for Peoples Vote
    Out of 64mil people?

    I was on that march and you know what struck me? The limited number of young people on it.

    Edited by FWB at 07:23:14 15-03-2019
  • elstoof 15 Mar 2019 07:23:34 22,632 posts
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    Can you name a leave March that was even 1/10 of the size? 700,000 marching on parliament is a fucking huge number
  • Deleted user 15 March 2019 07:40:39
    The million gammon march to the local Wetherspoons where they complained about foreigners and sovrinty is very popular most evenings and weekends.
  • challenge_hanukkah 15 Mar 2019 08:08:38 9,974 posts
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    Frogofdoom wrote:
    https://twitter.com/TheScepticIsle/status/1106228189368631297?s=19

    A long read but well worth it.
    Thanks for posting that, it was a really good read.

    Edited by challenge_hanukkah at 08:08:51 15-03-2019
  • the-cozen-show 15 Mar 2019 08:10:47 659 posts
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    really edifying sight yesterday watching people say not enough dominos have fallen yet to push a PV, having excoriated corbyn/starmer for their methodical march towards a potential PV for two years
  • challenge_hanukkah 15 Mar 2019 08:11:49 9,974 posts
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    5D CHESS!
  • elstoof 15 Mar 2019 08:16:52 22,632 posts
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    Exact it hasn’t really been methodical, unless 2 years of self contradiction, mixed signals and confused messages counts as a method
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