The CSGO gambling story Page 2

  • breakablepants 5 Jul 2016 10:06:20 1,099 posts
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    I"d actually blame YouTube for this more than Valve. All the CS Tubers implicated in this have significant channel subscribers which would put them into a category of YouTuber that works more closely with the channels. We PR games and it's pretty much universal now that any YouTiber expects money in return for reviewing anything, the problem is that few of them disclose sponsored posts and it's totally disorganised (unless they are 'famous' enough to have a manager). YouTube indirectly encourages people to drive views up however they can.

    YouTube could insta-ban any of these CS guys, but so far nothing - why not?

    As for Valve, what the fuck did they think would happen by introducing a slot machine mechanism?? Ignorance is not a defence. They too could lock accounts that are linked to real money gambling sites.
  • the_milkybar_kid 5 Jul 2016 10:14:30 8,389 posts
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    Edited by the_milkybar_kid at 10:15:27 05-07-2016
  • Rivuzu 5 Jul 2016 10:32:44 18,417 posts
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    I'm pretty sure Syndicate was at the last EGX held in London. Like, huge queues to meet him and everything, like he was an attraction. Always thought he was a smarmy cunt then.
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 5 Jul 2016 10:46:11 47,499 posts
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    He was definitely at one of them, because I remember being sat down and seeing him walk past, swamped by kids trying to talk to him. I asked his handler who he was and at the time was still none the wiser :D
  • Mekanik 5 Jul 2016 10:55:36 4,726 posts
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    These guys are not the first to come under the microscope with gambling in CS:GO skins. It just so happens that these are the single most shady morons that have been caught, so far.

    There are a few other big name streamers etc who have been caught out promoting gambling and big wins when they were basically given the skins to gamble by the sites or guaranteed some big wins to help promote the sites. This all in the last 6 months or so. Even some pro players and teams have been caught up in this (look at the iBP scandal over a year ago for the start).

    These 2 numbnuts stopped swearing in their video's and cleaned up, years ago, because they knew their audience were young kinds. So they are fully aware of who they are promoting gambling at with all their video's now.

    These guys are most likely going to end up in jail.

    Valve should come out with a statement or something to remove themselves from the gambling websites but then all the trade sites etc would be effected too.

    The problem is, these skins are one of the reasons that Valve is able to fund the majors that take place and a lot of the pro players and big organisations rely on the skins/sticker money to keep going. Although I suppose sponsorships should start to provide more of that money with the growth pro competition has taken in the last year or so.
  • senso-ji 5 Jul 2016 11:09:57 10,127 posts
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    The lack of action from Valve and Youtube is depressing. Valve removing the block to the website pretty much sums it up; the skins are obviously making a lot of cash and the external sites are driving the sales up.

    Valve will do nothing and if anything, this revelation will just encourage others to create more sites like this now that they know how much money they make.
  • Rivuzu 5 Jul 2016 11:13:56 18,417 posts
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    There are already more sites like this than they know what to do with. This isn't something new. In fact, it's been a thing since trading cosmetics was available in both CS:GO and Dota 2.

    It won't encourage people to create more sites. There are already too many sites. Plus, at most, the money they're earning can only be driven by ad revenue. You're holding fake goods as part of a fake economy that you use as a fake currency to drive fake gambling. There's not much in the way of big cash ins.
  • Not-a-reviewer 5 Jul 2016 11:25:07 6,919 posts
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    grassyknoll wrote:
    Valve's questionable business practices (facilitating underage gambling & accusations of child labour) have stopped me buying games from them altogether now. They really are quite poisonous and think they're probably the worst company in gaming right now.

    * Obviously we're talking about the Youtubers, but Valve's business model makes their shenanigans possible.
    Nothing like hysteria combined with made up stories is there.
  • Not-a-reviewer 5 Jul 2016 11:27:13 6,919 posts
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    breakablepants wrote:
    I"d actually blame YouTube for this more than Valve. All the CS Tubers implicated in this have significant channel subscribers which would put them into a category of YouTuber that works more closely with the channels. We PR games and it's pretty much universal now that any YouTiber expects money in return for reviewing anything, the problem is that few of them disclose sponsored posts and it's totally disorganised (unless they are 'famous' enough to have a manager). YouTube indirectly encourages people to drive views up however they can.

    YouTube could insta-ban any of these CS guys, but so far nothing - why not?

    As for Valve, what the fuck did they think would happen by introducing a slot machine mechanism?? Ignorance is not a defence. They too could lock accounts that are linked to real money gambling sites.
    Or we could blame the idiots that watch the videos and hand over their money (or their parents).
  • SomaticSense 5 Jul 2016 11:33:04 15,062 posts
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    @reviewer As well, yes. But let's not lose sight of how these cunts went out of their way to target said kids of neglectful parents.

    There is more that a lot of parties could have done to prevent this behaviour from being encouraged, parents, Valve, etc. But It's clear who is most to blame here.
  • SomaticSense 5 Jul 2016 11:40:07 15,062 posts
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    I just hope this ends up being the watershed moment that leads to actual regulation of these kinds of businesses. And hopefully it also leads to these big moneymaking Youtubers also being forced to adhere to a clear set of laws the same way TV networks do, because right now so many channels have been getting away with some immoral shit in the pursuit of big bucks.

    It's time the wild west was brought under control. Time that the wider world woke up to the internet.
  • brokenkey 5 Jul 2016 11:42:06 10,729 posts
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    MrTomFTW wrote:
    He was definitely at one of them, because I remember being sat down and seeing him walk past, swamped by kids trying to talk to him. I asked his handler who he was and at the time was still none the wiser :D
    Oh god, do you remember that guy who had a handler who described him as an "up and coming youtuber", went and played rockband really badly? I wonder who he was.
  • brokenkey 5 Jul 2016 11:43:47 10,729 posts
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    Concrete wrote:
    The real loser here: me :(

    I trade CS:GO items for fun, buy low, sell high, and this drama has tanked the prices.

    Gotta double down I guess!
    Presuming you do well and end up with loads of steam credit, what do you do next? Are you able to cash that money out in some way?
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 5 Jul 2016 11:45:56 47,499 posts
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    @brokenkey Yep. Looked about 15 and as non-threatening as can be :D

    I can't decide if I'm very glad or very disappointed that YouTube didn't exist when I was that age.
  • Deleted user 5 July 2016 11:52:32
    @MrTomFTW glad it didn't exist when i was a kid personally. Even with bt blocker and open dns it's all too easy to find things that kids shouldn't.

    I like YouTube for music, but it's been at the expense of my actual music collection and sales to the actual artist. I actually bought the first cds for myself in ages and listened to them rather than streaming. It was good.

    I'm on first name terms with the head of Senet, but sadly it is a work capacity and i don't think i can fit this in around the work I'm doing for her. However, if i get an opportunity I'll see what their opinion is of it. But work first as i don't want to get on the wrong side and they might think this is nothing compared to their main remit.
  • mothercruncher 5 Jul 2016 11:54:15 18,727 posts
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  • Rivuzu 5 Jul 2016 11:55:02 18,417 posts
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    @brokenkey Well he can put the credit to purchasing games on Steam, which is one thing. Get the latest triple A title on PC by playing the skins market?

    Hell, that's how I got my Steam Link. I won a shit load on Dota 2 match betting in skins (high value items too), sold them off via Steam Marketplace, used that credit to buy the Steam Link.
  • Deleted user 5 July 2016 11:55:40
    mothercruncher wrote:
    +1 really and i used to play counter strike. Had no idea this was a thing until yesterday and i figure most people are the same.

    Edited by Legate at 11:56:01 05-07-2016
  • brokenkey 5 Jul 2016 11:57:18 10,729 posts
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    Legate wrote:


    I'm on first name terms with the head of Senet, but sadly it is a work capacity and i don't think i can fit this in around the work I'm doing for her. However, if i get an opportunity I'll see what their opinion is of it. But work first as i don't want to get on the wrong side and they might think this is nothing compared to their main remit.
    Weird that on the front page is an article about Senet (the other meaning).

    I'd expect they'd say that unless the Gambling commission starts to regard it as proper gambling, it's out of their remit. Which is wrong, because this has "gateway drug" written all over it.

    Edited by brokenkey at 11:59:49 05-07-2016
  • Deleted user 5 July 2016 11:57:25
    It's really important to tell people as quickly as you can how little you know of a subject
  • SomaticSense 5 Jul 2016 11:58:29 15,062 posts
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    Yeah, it was news to me too. Took me a bit of time to catch up on what CSGO skin trading even was, and I still don't fully understand how it works.

    I feel old.
  • Deleted user 5 July 2016 12:01:43
    @brokenkey no idea. I'm just helping them with something. About 6 months ago id never heard of them... And wish it had stayed that way :)

    Edited by Legate at 12:07:17 05-07-2016
  • Mekanik 5 Jul 2016 12:04:43 4,726 posts
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    To be honest I have spent money on skins (too much if Mrs Mek knew?), and upgraded them through third party trade sites so they are "worth" more than what i initially paid for them.

    Random skins drop after matches (to some players) and each time you level up in game (through xp gain) you get a guaranteed drop once a week. I was up to 15 recently and spent that to offset some game i bought the other month. Currently my steam balance is around 5. Not bad just for playing something I (normally) enjoy. :)

    Edit: If you want to see how silly expensive some are, check out https://csgostash.com/

    This has prices for pretty much every weapon skin in game. Rarity obviously makes them more expensive.

    Edited by Mekanik at 12:06:16 05-07-2016
  • brokenkey 5 Jul 2016 12:05:43 10,729 posts
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    Rivuzu wrote:
    @brokenkey Well he can put the credit to purchasing games on Steam, which is one thing. Get the latest triple A title on PC by playing the skins market?

    Hell, that's how I got my Steam Link. I won a shit load on Dota 2 match betting in skins (high value items too), sold them off via Steam Marketplace, used that credit to buy the Steam Link.
    Ah, I was wondering if you could buy physical goods with steam credit. What else can you buy?
  • Mekanik 5 Jul 2016 12:06:51 4,726 posts
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    You can cash out to paypal i think, but you lose a transaction fee to Steam/Valve.
  • senso-ji 5 Jul 2016 13:08:46 10,127 posts
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    Mekanik wrote:
    Edit: If you want to see how silly expensive some are, check out https://csgostash.com/

    This has prices for pretty much every weapon skin in game. Rarity obviously makes them more expensive.
    I don't know what's craziest; the ammount of money people are willing to pay for a skin or the fact the vast majority of them (including rare ones) look like absolute shit. Someone out there is making a lot of money while laughing at the community they sell to.
  • Decks 5 Jul 2016 13:15:44 28,427 posts
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    On a scale of 1-10 how outraged should I be about this? Just as a a yardstick I am 7 outraged about gamergate.
  • Rivuzu 5 Jul 2016 13:18:52 18,417 posts
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    Well, some things go for extraordinary prices for a good reason though. Here's one;

    In Dota 2, I had an Alpine Ursa set. Ursa, a hero in the game, is a fucking bear. Literally a bear. He rips your shit up all over the place. A bear. The Alpine cosmetic set, when it was first introduced, cost about 7 and gave him lederhosen, a funny german hat, etc - you get the idea. He looked like a yodeller, or like he belonged in The Sound of Music.

    After a week, Valve pulled the set and said it wasn't in keeping with the character, and it was no longer on sale. This turned it almost overnight into a unicorn - an item so rare, that it's value is inflated ten times over.

    I ended up selling the set quite early on, but did so for 300 via the Steam marketplace. Took the money as Steam credit, hardly paid for anything in 2014-2015 for PC gaming.

    Last I checked, there was one guy who had collected about 30 of the sets. His inventory alone, if sold off for real-money, is probably worth about 10k.
  • MrTomFTW Moderator 5 Jul 2016 13:20:10 47,499 posts
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    Not entire convinced that is "a good reason". And I say that as someone who owns an Ursa stuffed toy :D
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