bad09 wrote:If she did something hurtful, which I'm not condoning, then the correct procedure is to take it up directly with her or ignore it. It is not, and never will be, to spread it further via the internet. If escalation is the only way you can deal with anything upsetting you, you have a problem. I also find it odd that your response to any one that tells you that they wouldn't do it, because it's fucked up beyond belief, is essentially 'well I would so you probably would too'. Love does make people do stupid shit, I agree with that. That isn't any kind of excuse though. That'd be the best fucking excuse for people that sexually or physically abuse their partners. |
Leaked sex tape causes suicide. Who is to blame? • Page 3
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Derblington 35,161 posts
Seen 19 hours ago
Registered 17 years ago -
monkman76 18,987 posts
Seen 4 days ago
Registered 13 years agoDerblington wrote:
Of course I understand the difference, I just don't see the relevance of your point considering what actually happened in this case. If the uploader had stolen her phone and uploaded the video then it would apply.
monkman76 wrote:
Please don't tell me you don't understand the difference? It doesn't change my point, which isn't exclusive to this case, in any way.
Derblington wrote:
While I also absolutely would not upload it, in fact she is the one who originally broke the circle, not the uploader.
Also, the idea that 'if you don't want anyone to see it you shouldn't do it in the first place' is complete bullshit. Sex videos are made privately by and for two consenting adults. As soon as that circle is broken without consent by both of those parties, the person that broke the circle is a cunt and should be 100% held accountable for it. -
grassyknoll 754 posts
Seen 10 minutes ago
Registered 10 years ago@Tonka I'm not victim blaming at all, honestly think this is a horrible situation for everyone involved and one where blame is difficult to ascribe. I just unsure if this can be classed as "revenge porn" as the intention was to have this seen by a number of people (5), I personally think that "privacy" as a concept is very difficult to define here and edges more into public (very different to a couple making a video, then one of them leaking it, the boundaries are easily definable here).
Edited by grassyknoll at 11:37:19 16-09-2016 -
Kay 21,321 posts
Seen 18 hours ago
Registered 17 years agobad09 wrote:
"Rode out the fame"? You make it sound so simple.
@Salaman
The world would have moved on. She did something quite horrid and vindictive that got made public and paid the price for it. She really should have accepted she did this to herself and rode out the fame. It would have gone away eventually, it always does.
Yes, the internet may well have forgotten about it in a year or two, but does that mean she would have too? That she would have gone back to being the person she was before it all happened?
What she did was incredibly stupid and mean, yes, but come on - let's put things into perspective here. -
Derblington 35,161 posts
Seen 19 hours ago
Registered 17 years agomonkman76 wrote:
I've not commented on whether the uploader should be in some way held accountable for a part in her suicide.
Derblington wrote:
Of course I understand the difference, I just don't see the relevance of your point considering what actually happened in this case. If the uploader had stolen her phone and uploaded the video then it would apply.
monkman76 wrote:
Please don't tell me you don't understand the difference? It doesn't change my point, which isn't exclusive to this case, in any way.
Derblington wrote:
While I also absolutely would not upload it, in fact she is the one who originally broke the circle, not the uploader.
Also, the idea that 'if you don't want anyone to see it you shouldn't do it in the first place' is complete bullshit. Sex videos are made privately by and for two consenting adults. As soon as that circle is broken without consent by both of those parties, the person that broke the circle is a cunt and should be 100% held accountable for it.
I was responding to the idea that it's ok to upload someone's private shit just because it's been sent to you first, and there for it's not their private property anymore. -
Tonka 31,979 posts
Seen 6 hours ago
Registered 18 years agoCappy wrote:
Eh? Had she uploaded it to YouTube or made a public post on her Facebook page then sure. That is not what happened. Entirely her own fault... ffs.
It's entirely her own fault.
Cappy wrote:
Being an idiot does not give other people permission to act like asshats.
You can't just send videos to people then expect to have control over what they do with it afterwards.
Cappy wrote:
Yes. That still doesn't mean it's OK to repost the video.
Furthermore, let's try switching the genders. Imagine a man sending women a video of him having sex, something that's definitely frowned upon. So she could easily be classified as a sexual harasser if any recipient of the clip didn't want to see that sort of material.
Cappy wrote:
That is horrible. Truly horrible. So at least we are in agreement that people shouldn't act like fuckwits towards others.
There was a recent UK story in which a girl falsely accused a seventeen year old boy of rape destroying his life and making it a living Hell, he commits suicide. The accuser is directly responsible but she has never been charged. A year later the boy's grief stricken Mother commits suicide herself. The BBC doesn't consider it news worthy. -
Duffking 16,964 posts
Seen 9 hours ago
Registered 15 years ago@monkman76
Let's imagine for a moment that jaywalking was illegal in the UK.
Situation A
I walk out to cross the road somewhere there isn't a crossing. Elsewhere, a car runs a red light. I get hit by the car. I'm committing a crime crossing the road, the car's committing a crime running the red light. I'm to blame for my crime of crossing the road, but I'm not to blame for the car hitting me, since the car made the decision to run the red light, regardless of the fact that I put myself in a situation where the car can hit me.
Situation B
I walk out where there isn't a crossing and get hit by a car that didn't run a red light. I committed a crime and then the driver of the car had no control over the fact that they hit me. It's my fault I committed the crime and it's my fault I got hit by a car.
In situation A, both people make a decision to commit a crime and the blame for that can be put solely at their own feet. This is regardless of the fact that the second crime wouldn't have happened if the first hadn't either.
In situation B, one person commits a crime and the blame for it is solely their fault, and it's also their fault that they then got hit by a car.
This is situation A: woman commits crime 1 that allows crime 2 to to happen. Both made a decision to commit a crime, both are to blame for their own crimes, but the woman isn't to blame for person 2 making their own decision to commit a crime.
Edited by Duffking at 11:36:58 16-09-2016 -
monkman76 18,987 posts
Seen 4 days ago
Registered 13 years agoDerblington wrote:
Yeah, sorry, I figured out you were making a general point rather than commenting on this specific case shortly after posting. Yes, I agree.
monkman76 wrote:
I've not commented on whether the uploader should be in some way held accountable for a part in her suicide.
Derblington wrote:
Of course I understand the difference, I just don't see the relevance of your point considering what actually happened in this case. If the uploader had stolen her phone and uploaded the video then it would apply.
monkman76 wrote:
Please don't tell me you don't understand the difference? It doesn't change my point, which isn't exclusive to this case, in any way.
Derblington wrote:
While I also absolutely would not upload it, in fact she is the one who originally broke the circle, not the uploader.
Also, the idea that 'if you don't want anyone to see it you shouldn't do it in the first place' is complete bullshit. Sex videos are made privately by and for two consenting adults. As soon as that circle is broken without consent by both of those parties, the person that broke the circle is a cunt and should be 100% held accountable for it.
I was responding to the idea that it's ok to upload someone's private shit just because it's been sent to you first, and there for it's not their private property anymore. -
monkman76 18,987 posts
Seen 4 days ago
Registered 13 years ago@Duffking Not sure what you're responding to, but yes, absolutely. I don't disagree with any of that.
I thought Derbs was referring to this specific case when in fact he was making a (valid) general point. -
grassyknoll 754 posts
Seen 10 minutes ago
Registered 10 years ago@bad09 Totally agree, both sound very emotional vulnerable and destructive to each other and themselves. Ascribe blaming readily just seems wrong in this case, it seems an issue that's morally wrong than legally.
* Although I don't think she's awful, just daft or emotionally damaged, he comes out looking worst morally.
Edited by grassyknoll at 11:43:53 16-09-2016 -
Derblington 35,161 posts
Seen 19 hours ago
Registered 17 years ago@bad09
I'm not tying this to physical or sexual abuse. I'm using your shitty excuse to do it.
I don't care how nasty she was trying to be - it doesn't excuse the actions of the uploader. Two wrongs don't make a right. There's no reason to "hit back" in the first place. If you really feel the need to, go to her and have it out with her. Make the other partner aware that she'd sent the video (though it sounds like he may have been aware already?).
You don't seem to be able to grasp that the act of her act of being hurtful doesn't require some form of revenge, and that any kind of revenge is in some way justifiable. It's not. I understand that we think certain people deserve certain behavior in return, for karma, but it's not actually called for. -
CosmicFuzz 32,632 posts
Seen 2 hours ago
Registered 15 years agoLegally, you've got to look at whether or not it was reasonable to foresee that the person would commit suicide if the video was uploaded. It's much like the case with the Australian radio show prank call to the nurse who killed herself. In that case, the radio show hosts were (rightly) ruled not to have been the cause of her death, because it wasn't reasonably forseeable that their actions would lead to her death.
Obviously uploading a sex tape to the internet if different. And given the content of it etc, I personally don't think it's unreasonable to think that it could have lead to suicide. Especially if the ex-boyfriend knew the woman and was aware if this was a reaction she was capable of. -
grassyknoll 754 posts
Seen 10 minutes ago
Registered 10 years ago@Derblington I think he means they're irrational people in an irrational situation. I don't think he's justifying the actions, but they are ones with really consequences and the video was an intention to escalate. For me, the difference between when & how he did it matters. Was it in the moment straight afterwards or done to gain maximum viewers a week later. -
Kay 21,321 posts
Seen 18 hours ago
Registered 17 years agobad09 wrote:
Again, you're being extremely reductive about this.
@Kay
Hopefully she wouldn't have been the same person after it died down and learnt some decency. It's sad she took her life but anyone who would send a vid like that is an awful, awful person.
This was not just a "haha, lesson learnt, won't do it again" type situation. She was essentially bullied by thousands of people on a daily basis. It's not exactly something you can easily get over (and by the sounds of it she really did try), no matter how thick-skinned you are. -
Rivuzu 18,424 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 15 years agoNow, the recipients are being investigated with a view to being charged in connection with her death.
Get your shit straight. They're not being charged in connection with her death, but defamation of character - of which will likely fall through, because by her own act she made the video and sent it to people without any level of control. She believed she had the right to do that, which she didn't. It sounds like she wanted to shame him (though we don't know all the facts, admittedly).
They're guilty of poor judgement, but her suicide was her choice. Just like the video was. Nobody killed her. Nobody forced her to fuck on camera.
Also, this isn't revenge porn. Revenge porn would be something you make together and then, after you break up, you release it. She willingly sent a video - of her own volition - after having broken up from her ex, featuring her and another person. Small technicality maybe? -
Rivuzu 18,424 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 15 years agoCosmicFuzz wrote:
It doesn't work like that. Not in the UK at least. I don't know about Italian law for bobbins, but in the UK, you can't just "blame" someone for another persons suicide and give them a sentence.
Legally, you've got to look at whether or not it was reasonable to foresee that the person would commit suicide if the video was uploaded. It's much like the case with the Australian radio show prank call to the nurse who killed herself. In that case, the radio show hosts were (rightly) ruled not to have been the cause of her death, because it wasn't reasonably forseeable that their actions would lead to her death.
Obviously uploading a sex tape to the internet if different. And given the content of it etc, I personally don't think it's unreasonable to think that it could have lead to suicide. Especially if the ex-boyfriend knew the woman and was aware if this was a reaction she was capable of. -
We also don't know that one of them uploaded it. One of the guy's mates might have thought it funny or salacious and passed it on to another mate who passed it on to another who passed it on to another who eventually uploaded it to a forum. She was a bit stupid sending something like that to a group of guys if she didn't want anyone to see it. -
You-can-call-me-kal 23,013 posts
Seen 21 hours ago
Registered 15 years agoDo we know what was done to her in order to make her send them the tape? -
Rivuzu 18,424 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 15 years ago@You-can-call-me-kal
The 31-year-old, identified as Tiziana, sent the video to her ex-boyfriend and three others, who put it online.
Nothing was done to her. She chose to send the video. -
My reading of this is: she was, quite literally, the author of her own destruction.
Sending the video to her ex was a malicious act, designed to cause maximum distress, hurt, and social embarrassment. It backfired spectacularly, visiting exactly those same things on her, and she was unable to handle the consequences. It's a classic case of both "you reap what you sow" and "don't deal it if you can't take it".
There's little point arguing the rights and wrongs of the uploading of that malicious video. The instant the video was sent to 5 people it ceased to be "private" and became "public", having already been shared with multiple third-parties, and by her. -
Ziz0u 11,006 posts
Seen 1 year ago
Registered 12 years agoHe left the toilet seat up one too many times. -
You-can-call-me-kal 23,013 posts
Seen 21 hours ago
Registered 15 years agoYea it was revenge for something in the first place potentially. Do we know what?
It doesn't change the 'blame' thing either way for me, but I think those saying she was spiteful land vindictive might need that context before making that judgment. -
Rivuzu 18,424 posts
Seen 2 days ago
Registered 15 years agobut I think those saying she was spiteful land vindictive might need that context before making that judgment
So do you often send your ex's sex tapes of you with your current partner then? -
Rivuzu wrote:
Yeah and he chose to upload the video.
@You-can-call-me-kal
The 31-year-old, identified as Tiziana, sent the video to her ex-boyfriend and three others, who put it online.
Nothing was done to her. She chose to send the video.
What she did was stupid, nasty and undoubtedly something she regretted doing later, but fuck me, how can anyone say that she deserved her sex tape to be seen by millions of people and became a meme across the country, and even after moving and getting your name changed she couldn't escape it.
She does not deserve what happened, she didn't deserve to feel like taking her life was the only option
Edited by MrMattAdz at 12:12:29 16-09-2016
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