Waffleaber wrote:Indeed, the UK being able to obtain a favourable trade deal with protectionist Trump-US a prime example. Also, people like FFR need to get off that idea that the majority of people on the continent are against the EU. It's actually quite the opposite. And no, it's not just all about trade. Read a history book for starters. |
Dutch Elections 2017 • Page 2
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Waffleaber 826 posts
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Registered 17 years agoFourfoldroot wrote:
Absolutely, I'd call those people selfish and short-sighted overall, not necessarily agreeing with extremist right views.
Waffleaber wrote:
At least there is acknowkedgment in there somewhere that not everyone who believes a national government (of any nation) should work for their people above others are far right. I thought the whole "borders are man's worst invention" EU had worked very effectively to conflate the two.
SYS64738 wrote:
Nationalists always support other nationalists no matter how far right they go. Confusingly they think that negotiations with governments with the express mandate of putting their own country above all others, no matter the cost, will give a better deal.
Fourfoldroot wrote:
You want fascists to win? Seriously?
Dirtbox wrote:
It will also be bad for Britain's negotiations with the EU unfortunately. Personally I'm hoping sentiment in France echos that in the U.K., but I doubt it.
challenge_hanukkah wrote:
This, really.
Don't let us down now France.
I'm extremely happy the Dutch aren't going the way of the nazi, but if France manage to show some sense too it'll be some nice proof that the whole extremist right bullshit is on the down swing.
And I would think it obvious that a country who wants to leave the EU wouldn't want excessively damaging terms set for countries looking to leave the EU...
What's the end game for those supporting nationalism in Europe anyway? The break up of the EU and the return to isolationist nation states united only by military alliances? History should tell you that's a bad idea. To think it would end any other way with nationalist governments happily cooperating and making concessions for the greater good seems a bit pie in the sky and counter to their existence. -
chopsen 21,958 posts
Seen 13 hours ago
Registered 16 years agoWilders was never really going to win power from what I understood. The Dutch inevitably have a coalition government and none of the other party's wanted to touch him with bargepole as he's apparently notoriously difficult to work with and get along with. (A man with a 24 hr armed guard is difficult to get along with? No way!). So unless he was going to get an outright majority, it wasn't going to matter.
As with UKIP in the UK though, it's a factor as it adds....legitimacy (?) to have that kind of discourse. It shifts normal to the right. There was a Radio 4 Analysis podcast that looked at this: even centrist opinion would seem right wing from a UK perspective. The narrative that Netherlands are a liberal tolerant society and Islamification would endanger that. The criticism of the the socially liberal parts of the UK is that they totally fail to even acknowledge the factor that those of an Islamic background seem to be a problem. The example of the Rotheram child abuse scandal was mentioned in this.
Le Pen getting in to power would actually be good for the UK, even if it is bad for other reasons. Having an actively Eurosceptic government in one the biggest EU countries as we're trying to negotiate to leave would undoubtedly help. But, every nation has veto and nothing is going to happen without consensus. Also the threat she would pose the the EU even if she got in to power is overblown. Membership of the EU is written in to the French constitution. She can't do a May and just invoke A50 because she thinks she cn. She'd wouldn't have the ability the change the constitution on her own.
Edited by chopsen at 09:34:13 16-03-2017 -
chopsen 21,958 posts
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Registered 16 years agoFourfoldroot wrote:
Well you've got that arse backwards
History shows that concentrating great power into the hands of a few fanatics is a massively bad idea - hence why the European Empire is a bad idea. -
You (and your Brexit friends) really have no idea whatsoever how the EU works. Amazing. And keep calling it 'empire' doesn't make it true either. Crazy fool. -
Crazy fool. -
challenge_hanukkah 14,394 posts
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Registered 8 years agochopsen wrote:
*winces*
Le Pen getting in to power would actually be good for the UK, even if it is bad for other reasons. Having an actively Eurosceptic government in one the biggest EU countries as we're trying to negotiate to leave would undoubtedly help.
Urgh, that's completely true sadly. -
Didn't Le Pen recently backpeddle on Frexit because it doesn't have sufficient public support in France? Could be wrong there, mind.
Edit seems she's still up for it. Never mind.
Edited by SYS64738 at 09:43:27 16-03-2017 -
Dougs 100,414 posts
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chopsen 21,958 posts
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Registered 16 years ago@SYS64738
I think that was about leaving the Euro, where she's kind of given ground as public opinion is generally in favour of having a common currency. -
Jono62 27,356 posts
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Registered 13 years agoUrgh, 3 cunts in a room. -
Dougs 100,414 posts
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Registered 18 years agoCan a Member State be a member of the Eurozone but not the EU - constitutionally, I mean? Surely not? -
chopsen 21,958 posts
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Registered 16 years agoI think she's thinking of going back to a pre-euro type system.
http://www.politico.eu/article/marine-le-pen-calls-for-return-to-ecu-style-currency-after-frexit/ -
@chopsen
You're right, I wasn't sure whether it was one or the other. To be honest a country leaving the Euro wouldn't bother me as much, I can see how the single currency doesn't work for all member states equally.
Personally I love it though - not having to worry about FX fluctuations (been very unlucky with them in the past), getting fleeced by your bank/credit card company via FX charges/unfavourable rates and having the right notes in your wallet is very nice indeed.
Edit.. and coins. Coins of several different denominations in your wallet are the worst.
Edited by SYS64738 at 09:56:35 16-03-2017 -
Dougs 100,414 posts
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Registered 18 years agoIf you keep coins in a wallet, you might as well call it a purse imo. .gif)
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Dougs wrote:
I would say no, because as part of the Eurozone you need to play by the EU's rules and minimum standards (let's not talk about Greece though!). My guess anyways.
Can a Member State be a member of the Eurozone but not the EU - constitutionally, I mean? Surely not?
I think Kosovo use the Euro ( but I don't think that's what you asked...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_and_the_euro
Edited by SYS64738 at 10:01:37 16-03-2017 -
chopsen 21,958 posts
Seen 13 hours ago
Registered 16 years agoYeah I think it makes perfect sense. In terms of facilitation the free movement of services and goods it would be mental not to, and for lots of people it's very convenient. I was talking to someone from the Netherlands who is a member of a gym in Germany because why not.
The problem is that it comes up against national governments role in deciding policy that affects their economy (the UK has benefited from not being in the Euro for this) or national governments having to pick up the slack when another national government which they have no control over fucks it all up (hello Greece). -
Dougs wrote:
I actually had to google the difference
If you keep coins in a wallet, you might as well call it a purse imo. Purse it is then (someone told me ages ago that a purse is a ladies' wallet is my excuse)! -
chopsen wrote:
In hindsight it would've probably better if the Euro was introduced to countries of similar economic background (Northern Europe basically) but politically would've been a minefield I assume.
Yeah I think it makes perfect sense. In terms of facilitation the free movement of services and goods it would be mental not to, and for lots of people it's very convenient. I was talking to someone from the Netherlands who is a member of a gym in Germany because why not.
The problem is that it comes up against national governments role in deciding policy that affects their economy (the UK has benefited from not being in the Euro for this) or national governments having to pick up the slack when another national government which they have no control over fucks it all up (hello Greece).
'Funny' thing with Greece is now that they don't want to leave the Euro (isn't this because their debt is in Euros, which would be even more difficult to repay with a devalued own currency). Although I'm not quite sure why the population is behind the Euro also (maybe for similar reasons). -
Dougs 100,414 posts
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Registered 18 years agoSYS64738 wrote:
It was a just a friendly jibe that all I've ever known is that Men have wallets, women have purses! . I believe there's an entire thread on it here somewhere...
Dougs wrote:
I actually had to google the difference
If you keep coins in a wallet, you might as well call it a purse imo. Purse it is then (someone told me ages ago that a purse is a ladies' wallet is my excuse)! -
Dougs wrote:
Right you got me
SYS64738 wrote:
It was a just a friendly jibe that all I've ever known is that Men have wallets, women have purses! . I believe there's an entire thread on it here somewhere...
Dougs wrote:
I actually had to google the difference
If you keep coins in a wallet, you might as well call it a purse imo. Purse it is then (someone told me ages ago that a purse is a ladies' wallet is my excuse)! Can't say I'm surprised at the existence of a thread here about it, too. -
Decks 31,013 posts
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Registered 6 years agoSaying someone "keeps his change in his wallet" is pretty much the most offensive thing you can say to a man. -
Dougs 100,414 posts
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Registered 18 years ago
But we digress.... -
In the Netherlands we say Geld moet rollen! Meaning you shouldn't pursue the purse
Bit fascist thing to say perhaps -
Armoured_Bear 31,233 posts
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Registered 10 years agoWhat a prick. -
Skirlasvoud 4,039 posts
Seen 4 months ago
Registered 11 years agoI voted "Groenlinks" (The leftist green party)
Such a relief we've stopped the madness from crossing the Atlantic on our shores. I feel a bit of sanity has returned to the world.
I was worried about the polls. Good thing they're going to be wrong again, this time for the better.
Edited by Skirlasvoud at 13:46:54 16-03-2017 -
Skirlasvoud 4,039 posts
Seen 4 months ago
Registered 11 years ago -
To put it in context.
It was as if a regular American, Pro-EU GOP candidate got the most votes instead of Trump, with the middle candidate and eco friendly Democrats also winning big.
Edited by Skirlasvoud at 22:28:49 16-03-2017
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