UK General Election 2017: Scumbags vs. Clowns Page 300

  • simpleexplodingmaybe 29 Jun 2017 22:42:15 9,474 posts
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    This has been Corbyn's position since before I was born. People love to project onto him (good and bad) but this really is him and always has been,
  • Dougs 29 Jun 2017 22:48:53 88,283 posts
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    FWB wrote:
    But I also think Brexit took a backseat to people wanting to bloody the Tories.
    This is true. Plus, domestically, the manifesto offered real choice for the first time in yonks, which lots responded to.
  • chopsen 29 Jun 2017 22:52:42 20,457 posts
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    DocDawg wrote:
    How in gods name can Corbyn not see brexit is a massive fucking mistake? His chief strategist, Seamnus Milne, is quite a left wing anti EU fanatic. I just didn't think he was this narrow minded.
    And who appointed Milne?

    Fucksakes people. Vote for left wing national protectionism, get left wing national protectionism. How bloody difficult is that to understand.
  • chopsen 29 Jun 2017 22:58:10 20,457 posts
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    Dougs wrote:
    FWB wrote:
    But I also think Brexit took a backseat to people wanting to bloody the Tories.
    This is true. Plus, domestically, the manifesto offered real choice for the first time in yonks, which lots responded to.
    Don't forget taxing the baddies too (high income, corp tax). Fuck those guys. That was a good vote winner.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 29 Jun 2017 23:14:33 9,474 posts
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    Considering how ruthlessly capitalist the way her site is run, and writers paid, Mendoza from The Canary is pulling all the Corbynite greatest hits out of the bag on Question Time tonight.
  • DocDawg 29 Jun 2017 23:17:44 162 posts
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    chopsen wrote:
    DocDawg wrote:
    How in gods name can Corbyn not see brexit is a massive fucking mistake? His chief strategist, Seamnus Milne, is quite a left wing anti EU fanatic. I just didn't think he was this narrow minded.
    And who appointed Milne?

    Fucksakes people. Vote for left wing national protectionism, get left wing national protectionism. How bloody difficult is that to understand.
    I think his official position is Chief Strategist for Labour? Something like that. He was just hired by Corbyn quite a bit ago now. He has that whole neo liberal capitalism is bad and must be brought down. So what if the EU enshrines the rights of some corporations or industries? In return our economy makes a shitload of money of return. Those are industries the UK is never going to enter anyway.

    Corbyn is the position to at least get a soft brexit, which is probably the best thing for him to do, and not an outright revoke of brexit, as politically who knows how that goes down. But there is appetite to at least stay in the single market.

    He's certainly not going to unite the lefties at all by doing this. He's going to piss off SNP, Green and Lib Dem royally. He need their support to win in the future, probably. He just doesn't care about the overall health of the economy, as long as he can increase taxes to improve it for the poorer, he seems happy.

    Labour was consistently unable to say how they would pay for all their plans, and we all hand waived it away, because we obviously trust Corbyn a lot more than the Tories.
  • FWB 29 Jun 2017 23:19:46 55,752 posts
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    We are so fucked, aren't we? I mean REALLY fucked! Two ideologically driven fuckwits fighting over the reigns of this caravan into the chasm.
  • FWB 29 Jun 2017 23:22:07 55,752 posts
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    Soft Brexit is gone. It's not happening and he's declared his position tonight on that too, joining May.

    Can these people really not see the wood for the trees? Is there not a rational bone in their bodies?
  • FWB 29 Jun 2017 23:24:47 55,752 posts
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    You know what's weird? There's only one person who is standing up for damage limitation... Philip Hammond. Christ.
  • chopsen 29 Jun 2017 23:31:17 20,457 posts
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    Got a lot of time for Hammond, have since he wanted to put up NI to pay for stuff. The guy's a pragmatist and more importantly worked out that the popular opinion was turning against austerity but didn't exploit it for personal gain, just tried to make a sensible policy decision.

    May shouted him down because it wasn't in the manifesto, of course. But fuck me look at what manifestos are worth these days.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 29 Jun 2017 23:31:22 9,474 posts
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    DocDawg wrote:

    Corbyn is the position to at least get a soft brexit, which is probably the best thing for him to do, and not an outright revoke of brexit, as politically who knows how that goes down. But there is appetite to at least stay in the single market.
    He literally fired members of the Shadow Cabinet for taking this position this evening.

    He's not being led astray by Seamus Milne anymore than Tony Blair was led astray by Alistair Campbell. Leaders don't recruit spin doctors who aren't fellow travellers along whatever ideology road they're on.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 29 Jun 2017 23:34:15 9,474 posts
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    FWB wrote:
    You know what's weird? There's only one person who is standing up for damage limitation... Philip Hammond. Christ.
    I know its mostly out the window now but Hammond is very much in the politics as national middle management tradition. He'd probably have made a good old school civil servant in a lot of ways. He's obviously looked at the spreadsheets left behind by Osborne and the projections of whats to come with Brexit and come to the quite rational conclusion that we're fucked.

    I don't think I'd come to the same conclusions as him as to how to fix the problem but I think we'd agree that there is one which is more than you'd get from most of the rest of the Cabinet these days.
  • chopsen 29 Jun 2017 23:36:28 20,457 posts
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    FWB wrote:
    Soft Brexit is gone.
    Has been for ever. Never was actually an option. Eventually every leave voter gets to this realisation. It's just the event that triggers it that varies. Osbroune being sacked. Lancaster Speech. McDonnell being appointed shadow exchequer. Lib dem vote collapse. And now Corbyn sacking some people who are pro EU.

    Welcome.

    It's ok.

    https://www.insights.com/resources/coaching-people-through-the-change-curve/

    Edited by chopsen at 23:38:24 29-06-2017
  • chopsen 29 Jun 2017 23:43:39 20,457 posts
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    (and by ok I mean it'll be a fucking car crash but you know. hey ho)
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 29 Jun 2017 23:44:52 9,474 posts
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    and still I see friends sharing that false statistic that claims Corbyn made more pro-Remain public appearances than any other politician during the referendum campaign.
  • thelzdking 30 Jun 2017 00:56:24 9,048 posts
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    It's clear that if we stayed in the single market many would see it as essentially staying in the EU. The media would portray it as such, as would red-blooded Brexiteers like Farage and his ilk. Most front-bench politicians(at least the ones that might like a soft Brexit) are not brave enough to fight that fight.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 30 Jun 2017 01:04:00 9,474 posts
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    Stupid facts, next you'll be saying that we always did have control of our borders because we weren't part of the Schengen arrangement
  • Deleted user 30 June 2017 04:14:50
    chopsen wrote:
    Any remainers who supported Corbyn and or labour in that hope deserve as much shit as the casual racists who voted Brexit because Muslims. Cretins the pair of them
    Fact is - us leaving the EU has nothing to do with labour or Corbyn. I'm a reluctant remainer myself, but people blaming corbyn for this shit show can fuck right off.
  • mal 30 Jun 2017 04:50:12 29,326 posts
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    thelzdking wrote:
    It's clear that if we stayed in the single market many would see it as essentially staying in the EU. The media would portray it as such, as would red-blooded Brexiteers like Farage and his ilk.
    The conditions of access to the single market, in all examples negotiated so far, have been four freedoms - movement, trade, services, and the other one. If we got that kind of deal, the only difference as far as I can tell would be that we don't get any say on the regulations that come down, and we'd not have to employ quite as many diplomats (though I guess they've got decent pensions and contract terms, so we won't actually save much by sacking them).
  • RobTheBuilder 30 Jun 2017 05:31:50 6,976 posts
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    @DocDawg A: His strength is his honesty and consistency - he has always been a euro sceptic.

    B: If he denounced brexit it would hand the tories any future election - sadly traditional Labour voters can be racist too

    C: A Corbyn brexit would still be one HELL of a lot better than a Tory brexit
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 30 Jun 2017 07:04:30 18,506 posts
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    Just in case anyone hasn't masturbated yet this morning.

  • Dougs 30 Jun 2017 07:05:04 88,283 posts
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    I've seen no evidence of C...
  • Not-a-reviewer 30 Jun 2017 07:48:43 5,566 posts
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    There's a slim chance there would be an actual plan but given the chaos his own party was in 1 year ago there's no evidence of that .

    Keir Starmer is the only one of his front bench I have any time for and he seems miles better than Davis and Fox but he still has to do what Corbyn and his left wing friends want to do.
  • Garfy 30 Jun 2017 07:57:54 1,364 posts
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    Decks wrote:
    Just in case anyone hasn't masturbated yet this morning.

    *hurk*

    Edit: Seriously I just had my breakfast and you show me that!

    Edited by Garfy at 07:58:46 30-06-2017
  • drhickman1983 30 Jun 2017 08:38:46 5,724 posts
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    I don't agree with Corbyn on the EU, but this has always been his position. Anybody surprised has been deluding themselves. During the actual brexit nonsense he came across as a bit wishy-washy as he seemed to be toeing some party line, so in a way I'm glad that he's showing a bit more commitment.

    But yeah, that's always been one of the things I've disagreed with him about, and this might well lose him some of his new supporters who were a bit naive about his views.

    I still think he's preferable to any of the Tories.
  • JamboWayOh 30 Jun 2017 09:10:33 11,831 posts
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    Where was this pic when I went to the sperm bank yesterday? Phwoar!!!!
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 30 Jun 2017 09:43:27 9,474 posts
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    Looks like the attack line from Corbynites in the press is that Chuka was guilty of a symbolic vanity rebellion and Corbyn was right to whip for a harder Brexit.

    The most rebellious Labour MP of the last 20 years having his outriders deride people as disloyal and wielding the whip against the smallest infraction there. A "principled" man having it said that when a career Europhile stands up for Europe in the face of overwhelming opposition it's only because of vanity.

    God Team Jez are hypocrites
  • FWB 30 Jun 2017 09:44:50 55,752 posts
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    "Kinder politics" at work.

    The far-sides are so ugly.

    Edited by FWB at 09:46:03 30-06-2017
  • H1ggyLTD 30 Jun 2017 09:49:13 11,916 posts
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    The centre is so smug.
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