Spiderman PS4 (2017) Page 40

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  • Phattso 3 Aug 2020 10:54:56 26,179 posts
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    A week or so on from finishing this, and I didn't go back to mop anything at all up. Was chatting shit about it in the Control thread, so thought I'd bring it back here with a quote from the Edge review:

    It is at its core a forgettably designed, cookie-cutter open-world game, that is elevated by its traversal, its combat and stealth, by the eventually irresistible pull of its story. It may not have legs, but while it lasts it is delightful. The Amazing Spider-Man? Not quite. But it is frequently spectacular, and given Parker's rather chequered videogame past, that feels like some achievement.

    They gave it an 8/10. I didn't like the combat as much as they did, so it's probably a 7 for me on reflection (although I'm sure I gave it an 8 in the completed games thread).

    I know a lot of work goes into these, I know it's not an easy task (as per Derbs' responses to my chatting shit in the Control thread) but at the end of the day that's not enough. Spider-Man didn't have the magic dust to elevate it for me, and moving on to Control after this I found something that feels much more unique, more finely crafted - although technically speaking a bit of a shit show - and it made me look back on Spider-Man less favourably. I know they're not really comparable games, it's just how I've found them.

    Instead of Spider-Man I could just as easily have spent the money on, for example, Ass Creed Odyssey and I'd probably have had a better time. That too is another cookie-cutter open world, elevated by its main character, and dragged along by its storyline... but at least the combat wouldn't get on my nerves and I know that the RPG-lite lure of this latest take on the series is good for 50hrs+ whereas Spidey petered out (PUN INTENDED) at about 25hrs. :)

    I'm really looking forward to seeing what side of this argument Tsushima falls when I eventually catch up to this year's exclusives. Those hats had better be fucking game changing.

    Edited by Phattso at 10:55:14 03-08-2020
  • nickthegun 3 Aug 2020 11:03:42 83,632 posts
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    I think I achieved pretty much the same completion percent as you. After the main story was done, I was done too. I know its supposed to be an easy platinum but I had completely had enough of the busy work.

    That said, and I havent played an AC game since AC3, but I *loved* the story (stealth missions aside) in this and thats the thing that really elevated it over even the Ezio saga.

    I mean, shit, if you want an example of what not to do in this kind of game, look at days gone. I picked that up after control (im playing it at the moment) and that is as boring as fuck. Empty map, boring objectives, boring story and tedious characters.
  • JamboWayOh 3 Aug 2020 11:03:50 21,498 posts
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    Again to go back to Derbs response I'm not sure how you can directly compare this and Control, they're very different games with very different structures, which in turn l affords Control the enviable luxury of being able to have an uniqueness to it and I think that's a bit unfair to hit Spider-Man with based on its source material which demands a city scape environment for the character to exist and play in.
  • JamboWayOh 3 Aug 2020 11:07:14 21,498 posts
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    @nickthegun

    I'm totally with you on Days Gone, if you want to talk about cookie cutter open world design, Days Gone is your man. I found it to be so generic on every level, gruff leading man with hidden pain because a of a dead woman, missions ripped straight out of the old AC games where you have to hide and listen on a conversation. I know it got a different reaction on the forum but my god they really saddled an interesting premise with such a leaden boring world and structure.
  • nickthegun 3 Aug 2020 11:13:59 83,632 posts
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    The definition of that game is that it gives you infinite petrol and an indestructible bike when it wants an exciting, dynamic sequence and the rest of the time youre hobbled with fucking around on something made out of paper that leaves you with the equivalent of electric car charge anxiety.

    If you know being able to tool around on the bike is fun, why hobble it for 99% of the game? It would be like having spiderman swing three blocks and have to leg it around the ground, searching for web cartridges in the bin*


    *yes, I know why. Its a survival game. Its still boring and artificially restrictive. Even a chimps mini bike doesnt go through a tank in 2 kilometres.

    Edited by nickthegun at 11:15:07 03-08-2020
  • SolidSCB 3 Aug 2020 11:20:13 13,777 posts
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    I haven't finished yet but I'd very much have it at around a 7/10 so far. The story has been surprisingly really good so far, but I can see why once that is over fatigue will creep in with the rest of the tat scattered around the map.

    Again though if I were a huge, huge fan of all things Marvel I think it would easily be an 8 or even a 9. It's an amazing toybox of suits and power ups, and while I find most of it pretty redundant for getting through the game, I can see why others are geeking out at it.

    Edited by SolidSCB at 11:20:43 03-08-2020
  • Phattso 3 Aug 2020 11:20:35 26,179 posts
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    JamboWayOh wrote:
    Again to go back to Derbs response I'm not sure how you can directly compare this and Control, they're very different games with very different structures, which in turn l affords Control the enviable luxury of being able to have an uniqueness to it and I think that's a bit unfair to hit Spider-Man with based on its source material which demands a city scape environment for the character to exist and play in.
    Sure. But what I wrote above was an attempt to explain that I'm *not* comparing them game-to-game, but I'm just saying that Control has in spades what Spider-Man was lacking. Craft. Uniqueness. It's not bland despite being set in a brutalist office block from the 50s, so not sure why you think NYC comes off worse in that comparison. ;)

    Nothing to do with game structure or genre or setting. That's not what I'm comparing. Control might also have been designed in a more overtly beige fashion, but even those shitty elements lifted from other games to allow Control to reuse areas over and over are done in a smarter way.

    It made me less forgiving of the rote design in Spidey's side content (do this five times... now do that five times...) where they manage to make the potentially awesome unequivocally mundane. They could've taken a leaf from different open worlders, and introduced some genuine dynamism like Shadows of Mordor, for example. Perfect match for Spidey's world. And, again, arguably the Batman series did *all* of that substantially better up to a decade ago. For all the shit it took, I think Arkham Knight even takes a giant shit on Spider-Man. But that just, like, my opinion, man. :)


    I agree with Nick, though - and can't say it enough - the story and characters in Spidey were really really well done. Tthat was what dragged me over the finishing line. It was a great one-and-done experience, but it won't linger in my heart for long I think in the way that God of War did. I would absolutely play the shit out of Miles Morales and/or a sequel... but only to mainline the story and then bin it. Perfect rental fodder, perhaps.
  • JamboWayOh 3 Aug 2020 11:29:02 21,498 posts
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    I don't know about that concerning Arkham Knight, it still had some terrible padding to extend it's playtime which I think a lot of open world games suffer from, and the dynamism of Shadow of Mordor only really came into effect on harder difficulties and when you moved onto the second half of the game it felt like you were repeating yourself. I do disagree that Spider-Man doesn't have craft, and the uniqueness charge again doesn't seem like a fair criticism to a game set in NYC. I'm not sure how they could have made NYC unique for their first stab at the game.
  • nickthegun 3 Aug 2020 11:29:44 83,632 posts
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    I vaguely remember reading a review at the time mentioning that its unfortunate it was in development for so long as by the time it came out, the open world stuff in the game which used to be fairly contemporary had been refined and moved on quite substantially by the quick turn arounds of AC games, so it felt quite old hat even at release.
  • JamboWayOh 3 Aug 2020 11:31:20 21,498 posts
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    @nickthegun

    Days Gone or Spider-Man?
  • nickthegun 3 Aug 2020 11:33:48 83,632 posts
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    Spider Man but, yeah, applicable to both. At least theres no radio towers in days gone, just the fog of war.

    For an area he has been living in for at least two years and repeatedly professes to know like the back of his hand.
  • Phattso 3 Aug 2020 11:35:41 26,179 posts
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    JamboWayOh wrote:
    I do disagree that Spider-Man doesn't have craft, and the uniqueness charge again doesn't seem like a fair criticism to a game set in NYC. I'm not sure how they could have made NYC unique for their first stab at the game.
    I'm not talking about the setting. At all. At any point. Uniqueness in experience is what I'm talking about. It has borrowed 95% of its experience from others, and most of those others did it better. That's all I'm saying.

    And yes Mordor got repetitive - which is why I'm saying Spidey taking *that* as a basis and building it around the fully compatible Spider-Man mythos (of basically beating the same pantheon of bad guys over and over and over and over) could've made something really special, and more unique feeling.

    I'd have enjoyed the so-so Spidey combat a lot more if it fed into something more interesting than making X/5 become X+1/5, y'know?

    And yes, Arkham Knight had awful padding. It was far from perfect. But every element that was in there was superior to Spidey, and the combat is still the absolute best in the biz for me. As good as the swinging in Spidey is (and it's really really good) I enjoyed getting around in the Arkham games more. Which really shouldn't be the case, I think.

    Anyways. A really nice script, great characters, and a wonderful story, made Spider-Man worthwhile. The rest was a bit of a damp squib for me.
  • JamboWayOh 3 Aug 2020 11:37:10 21,498 posts
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    Hmm, interesting. I definitely think we'll get a more refined package in Miles Morales. Fwiw I did like the game, but did tire of how combat was almost non stop in the last quarter of the game and obviously those insta fail stealth missions which did feel as if they were from a previous generation which kind of makes sense now.
  • JamboWayOh 3 Aug 2020 11:38:10 21,498 posts
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    @Phattso

    Surely you mean a damp...SQUID!!!
  • Phattso 3 Aug 2020 11:39:01 26,179 posts
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    No. Even I have a level of pun quality beneath which I shall not fall. ;)
  • waggy79 3 Aug 2020 11:41:10 2,329 posts
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    I'd say the traversal in Spidey is far superior to any Batman game personally and something I never tired of. From jogging everywhere in AA to a simple glide and grapple in AC to the widely despised batmobile in AK, they never nailed it.
  • nickthegun 3 Aug 2020 11:45:31 83,632 posts
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    I will, again, stick up for the combat system. I play a lot of fighty games and this is no slouch. Once you get into the flow, which the game really encourages you to do with buffs and combo meters, I really felt like I was controlling a superhero.

    It was so good, in fact, it made me mop up a lot of missions I wouldnt normally have been arsed with, just to get into a ruck. Dropping out of the sky, flawlessly mopping up a gang and swinging out of there was the real street level shit.
  • Phattso 3 Aug 2020 12:13:26 26,179 posts
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    Yeah, a few other people piped up to say Combat got better and they enjoyed it. I'm sad I never reached that stage with it. I tried, I really did. :(
  • Phattso 3 Aug 2020 12:15:58 26,179 posts
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    waggy79 wrote:
    I'd say the traversal in Spidey is far superior to any Batman game personally and something I never tired of. From jogging everywhere in AA to a simple glide and grapple in AC to the widely despised batmobile in AK, they never nailed it.
    It's great in Spidey, for sure - but it was mainly a getting from A-B thing I found. Something that happened between missions. In Batman I felt it was more integral to more of the game, and combat specifically. Most Spidey combat is quite contained. In fact, often to its detriment. Nothing fucked that Combat harder than dozens of enemies in a tight back alley. Oo-er.

    That said - and credit where it's due - some of the later boss fights relied on traversal quite heavily and it never let me down. Some encounters that could've been aggravating were actually elevated by it - easily my fondest memories of the game.
  • JamboWayOh 3 Aug 2020 12:16:24 21,498 posts
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    On its plus points I did feel Batman veered into fighting game territory with the sheer amount of moves you had to learn for combat. It got a bit ridiculous come Arkham Knight. Spiderman at the very least was more accessible especially how you could easily chain combos in the air and essentially never touch the floor.
  • Derblington 3 Aug 2020 12:35:18 34,242 posts
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    Control is great (as I said in the other thread) but it really does benefit by being literally anything Remedy wanted it to be, versus Spider-man being, well, Spider-man. There is an expectation of what this game should be and they can add some flair and some additions but you can't fuck with the core of that expectation. It's just about making that the best it can be, and I think the traversal, story, casting, combat system (which is a massive step above the usual Spidey tap, tap, tap of the square button) and general design does achieve that.

    It was never going to break the mold though. It just can't.

    That isn't saying Remedy had an easier job or anything by having "no rules", the fact that they fleshed-out their universe and made it all so consistent within it's rules is impressive. The oldest house is great (though it does get tricky to navigate later in the game due to a poor map and they introduce time-based side missions that are just the same activities repeated). I can totally see how it feels better "crafted", for lack of a more appropriate term.

    It's sort of art-house versus the blockbuster.

    Edited by Derblington at 12:36:01 03-08-2020
  • minky-kong 3 Aug 2020 13:13:02 14,648 posts
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    Each to their own, I thought Control was frustrating for the most part with a god awful map, and not fit to even lick the boots of Spider-Man. Opinions and all that.
  • SnackPlissken 1 Oct 2020 09:18:47 2,300 posts
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    Can't wait for this new game.
  • Baihu1983 3 Oct 2020 21:46:06 12,943 posts
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    Ffs...

    https://twitter.com/bryanintihar/status/1312477421862412288?s=19
  • Flying_Pig 21 Nov 2020 23:24:37 16,771 posts
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    Bump!

    I've just started playing this - really enjoying traversing the city (took me a little while for it to click, but it now just feels so natural), but finding the combat a bit of a slog. And even at this early stage, the map is already full of extra icons etc etc

    Still, with just swinging around New York being this much fun, I can see me getting quite a few hours of enjoyment out of this.
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