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Aw, Skirlas, you're a doll. Don't think for a moment I was intending to be rude about you or your feedback. All feedback is welcome and useful. I did find it really funny that you forced yourself through several pages of writing you didn't really like all that much, went to the effort of explaining what you thought was wrong and how to improve it, to which the author says "yeah, fair point: maybe don't read any further." And then you're like "Screw you! I'm going to eat even more of this bland word-pie just to check! And then provide more meaningful feedback! Hah!" Part of me loves the tradi-comedy of writing something for years at a time only to be told "yeah, it's a bit dull." Even if that isn't really what happened. |
NaNoWriMo 2017 aka write ten pages then give up • Page 2
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Metalfish 9,191 posts
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Skirlasvoud 4,039 posts
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Registered 11 years agoNah, I didn't force myself through more of it. .gif)
That's about the point where I got the last time I read it.
And hey, me digging up a section of your writing just like that and in a minute flat, does really prove that it stuck me by and remembered! I just CTRL+F'd fireplace and copy-pasted.
The only reason I elaborated the last time, was because I didn't want to drop it without being more constructive, which I was already writing towards. Just leaving you with the notion it was boring is awful. I didn't go "screw you". That's not what happened either.
Didn't want to bring it up again here either, but I just couldn't bear you beating yourself over your head with last year's critique for the third time! (which is exactly what I feared would happen) That was the second instance you called your work boring and referred to what I said. Just thought I'd do the same and add a little more context to it by recalling it. You seemed a bit dejected. It's not boring! It made an impact on me!
Anyway, keep it up!
Edited by Skirlasvoud at 14:59:54 23-09-2017 -
challenge_hanukkah 14,394 posts
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Registered 8 years agoWhen you say security reasons are you worried that people may plagiarise your work? -
The register he's on doesn't permit posting on forums. -
sunjumper 3,548 posts
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Registered 20 years ago@Metalfish
As a counter balance.
I think it is important to know that what was compared was a first draft which mjost authors would never show anyone ever, with a published book that has seen its share of editing.
Another point, reading the examples I could see that yes indeed Martin's prose flows better. You read it and it just works. But in my personal opinion his style is pedestrian and his characters bland. Despite the great flow there was nothing in those paragraphs quoted that went beyond generic faux medieval fantasy. Good flow but not much else.
While in 'fish's story the flow isn't as good, but pretty those few paragraphs are filled with more humanity and character than most other books. Which is why I personaly loved his story so far.
I think that editing and polish will go a long way and that commets like those from Skirlasvoud will help identfying why things aren'T working as well as they could.
And this is also a good example for the breadth of opinions you will encounter when writing.
P.S. and just to make it clear this is not ment in any way as an attack on Skirlasvoud, whose feedback was great. Well argued with examples and suggestions.
Edited by sunjumper at 15:26:15 23-09-2017 -
sunjumper 3,548 posts
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Registered 20 years agoRivuzu wrote:
Almost everyone I know and writes feels that way.
I'm really tempted by this every year, and I've got the same idea knocking in my head that's been there for close to a decade now. I know all the beats, all the characters, and every event.
Every time I sit down to try and write something? BLAH, YOU FUCKING MORON, YOU CALL THAT WRITING? YOU COULDN'T WRITE YOURSELF OUT OF A PAPER FUCKING BAG YOU CUNT. DELETE THAT SHIT NOW BEFORE SOMEONE SEES IT. GO ON. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR, YOU WEAK WILLED SHIT, DO IT.
CTRL+A, DEL, cry.
Don't worry about it just write.
This here, this thread is a safe place you are among friends and we will help you. -
Skirlasvoud 4,039 posts
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Registered 11 years agochallenge_hanukkah wrote:
I think posting it here might actually be the best security you can afford. You can now point back at your forum post and prove you made that, with more than a dozen witnesses to back you up.
When you say security reasons are you worried that people may plagiarise your work?
I might simply be woefully naive though...
sunjumper wrote:
Plus, what the heck do I know? Far as I know, it's part of a greater series I have no knowledge of. Looks like there's plenty people here who have seen other examples and love it! I could COMPLETELY miss the nail, or my likes have no bearing at all.
I think that editing and polish will go a long way and that commets like those from Skirlasvoud will help identfying why things aren'T working as well as they could.
P.S. and just to make it clear this is not ment in any way as an attack on Skirlasvoud, whose feedback was great. Well argued with examples and suggestions.
Also, my feedback CAN be a bit abrasive. In 2016, I got really hyped, outspoken and worked up when discussing writing. Sorry if I have been in any way crass or impolite.
Edited by Skirlasvoud at 15:39:30 23-09-2017 -
Skirlasvoud 4,039 posts
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Registered 11 years agosunjumper wrote:
Yup!
Rivuzu wrote:
Almost everyone I know and writes feels that way.
Every time I sit down to try and write something? BLAH, YOU FUCKING MORON, YOU CALL THAT WRITING? YOU COULDN'T WRITE YOURSELF OUT OF A PAPER FUCKING BAG YOU CUNT. DELETE THAT SHIT NOW BEFORE SOMEONE SEES IT. GO ON. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR, YOU WEAK WILLED SHIT, DO IT.
CTRL+A, DEL, cry.
I follow a few writing channels. Self-doubt and anxiety seems to be a theme:
... that said, above video is a bit on the girly side, but hey!
Edited by Skirlasvoud at 15:54:22 23-09-2017 -
The12thMonkey 598 posts
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Registered 17 years ago@Rivuzu
If you know the story and the characters that well, then I'd say stick at it. The pleasure to be gained from actually putting it all down in real sentences is one of the things that really kept me going through my writing. And who knows? You might find that you write yourself to a point and the situation suggests something you haven't planned, and you react to it, choosing a new direction. Those are the most exciting times I've had while writing; the sensation that I'm discovering some new twist to the story in that moment, and the ramifications could be huge for the plot ahead. -
challenge_hanukkah 14,394 posts
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Registered 8 years ago@SpaceMonkey77
Has any of your stolen work been published and credited to someone else? -
Metalfish 9,191 posts
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Registered 16 years agoThe mainly way to deal with self doubt is to neck three scotches and hammer it out? -
Skirlasvoud 4,039 posts
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Registered 11 years ago@challenge_hanukkah
Do we make jokes? Like saying the Russians doctored and credited it to Hillary, which made her delete her private server?
Seems crass now that we went over the whole vulnerability thing. -
Metalfish 9,191 posts
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Registered 16 years agoMaking stuff is great. It's amazing how much of the advice from successful creative types boils down to "make stuff."
So who's going to do the weird project this year? -
I've started working on a plot outline for my entry. If I don't there's no way I'll have enough time to reach the 50000 word target in time. -
wuntyate 17,494 posts
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Registered 8 years agoStarting to formulate...something. But I'm not sure if I want to start something new or go back to some of the children I've neglected.
Trouble is, is that the two nearly-books I've done, I've written so many characters and so many plot strands and so much, well, shit, that I'm never going to tie either of them together. So I'm thinking either something new or go back to last years, keep it really bloody simple, as few characters and shit as possible and see if I can actually finish something.
Yeah, that might work. Maybe. -
neilka 24,021 posts
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Registered 16 years agoCould we read some of your works please user SpaceMonkey77? -
sunjumper 3,548 posts
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Registered 20 years agoSkirlasvoud wrote:
Feedback is very important. Especially coming from people who are enthusiastic. About what they are reading, about the craft, about the potential of a story.
Plus, what the heck do I know? Far as I know, it's part of a greater series I have no knowledge of. Looks like there's plenty people here who have seen other examples and love it! I could COMPLETELY miss the nail, or my likes have no bearing at all.
Also, my feedback CAN be a bit abrasive. In 2016, I got really hyped, outspoken and worked up when discussing writing. Sorry if I have been in any way crass or impolite.
I was criminally absent in the 2016 thread, so I can comment on your feedback style there. What I have seen so far seems pretty good. The energy is there alright and you back-up everything you say. You certainly are on the shortlist for the “Most impressive use of quotes giving feedback” award. It is easy to see what you are talking about.
Talking about feedback in general there are two things I found:
First of all feedback should help the recipient becoming better at what they are doing. There should always be an element that shows them how and where to grow.
Everything else is complaining which is both artless as well as destructive. Telling someone that their work is shit full stop, does not help them understand why it was bad or how it could be improved.
This leads to my second point, that whenever possible feedback should be anchored in something positive. Helping someone understand what works and how to reinforce that. How to recognize and avoid the things that weaken these qualities. Thus they can build on their strengths instead of being reminded of their failures.
In the end people tend to be their own worst critics, they don’t need help eviscerating their work.
It is also worth considering that the things that appear here are first drafts, the versions most authors are loath to show even to themselves. These are bound to be flawed. It is also the point where good feedback can help the most. -
HarryPalmer 6,357 posts
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Registered 15 years agoI seem to remember the last time I tried this I ended up writing about a sinister assisted suicide clinic and a main protagonist who could use cats to travel between time and space.
I usually enjoy it until I realise I have no idea where the story is going and get scared. -
sunjumper 3,548 posts
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Registered 20 years agoHarryPalmer wrote:
Just follow the crazy thoughts. I know the feeling of a story desintegrating in your hands really well, but it is a good excercise.
I seem to remember the last time I tried this I ended up writing about a sinister assisted suicide clinic and a main protagonist who could use cats to travel between time and space.
I usually enjoy it until I realise I have no idea where the story is going and get scared.
Also if you do get feedback people tend to ask questions that help you advance your plot.
In the end this isn't a competition. At least not against others, if at all you are competing against yourself. -
wuntyate 17,494 posts
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Registered 8 years agoHarryPalmer wrote:
Was that a few years back? I was enjoying that!
I seem to remember the last time I tried this I ended up writing about a sinister assisted suicide clinic and a main protagonist who could use cats to travel between time and space.
I usually enjoy it until I realise I have no idea where the story is going and get scared. -
HarryPalmer 6,357 posts
Seen 20 hours ago
Registered 15 years agoThanks, Wunty. Yeah, it was probably a couple of years ago, which is sad. The only writing I have done since is a very short story about a guy having an affair with his toaster.
I'm down to try again this year though. -
After reading a couple of novellas in the past few days I've decided to stick to fitting my story into 50k words. It's probably better to keep things tight and focus on the story than to ramble on for hundreds of pages. -
I'm doing that now. I have a title and about a dozen bullet points for different parts of the story. It's a skeleton to hang stuff off.
.gif)
That's about the point where I got the last time I read it.
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