Total War: Warhammer 2 Page 2

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  • ResidentKnievel 27 Oct 2017 09:16:17 7,421 posts
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    Some settlements produce the food resource for Skaven, you might want to make them a priority once you go full expansionist mode.

    I didn't realise until late on and had the the same problem as you.
  • Dgzter 27 Oct 2017 09:19:16 3,226 posts
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    @Rogueywon I'll wait for your thoughts on Mortal Empires then, Roguey :) I'm still getting a lot of mileage out of the original, so my plan was to hold off on the new one until the grand campaign stuff came in.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 27 Oct 2017 09:42:11 9,030 posts
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    @ResidentKnievel Yeah, I've been prioritising those buildings for a long time now. Skaven were pretty damned strong through the mid-game. They've got quick recruitment and cheap-but-strong units. Once you get a few decent armies working together, you can take apart your rivals pretty damned quickly (I basically wiped out Lizardmen entirely by around turn 130).

    The problem is in the late-game, when you need a lot of armies to help counter the Chaos/Skaven incursions that trigger during the final ritual. At this point, no number of food buildings, or even of provinces using the +food commandment will match your upkeep. The only way to stay off rock-bottom is to maintain a constant state of psychotic aggression against your neighbours and even then, you're going to run out of quick targets to hit fairly soon.

    I'm nearly there now, though. The final ritual is nearly complete and Queek's army is easily strong enough for the final battle, assuming it's broadly similar to the High Elf version. I lost a load of towns to the final ritual incursion, but have dealt with all the hostile armies now and am busy recolonizing them.

    With Mortal Empires just released, I doubt I'll play on as Skaven beyond the Vortex victory condition. If I did, I think I'd need to drop my number of armies dramatically to get food back under control and then flip most of my provinces over to food production, taking the income hit as I do so.

    Wondering which faction to play Mortal Empires as first. Will likely be a solo-game. Our co-op game is going well, but is slower paced; we're only just now closing in as the third ritual. Combination of co-op being slower in general and of Dark Elves being a fairly slow-expansion faction (my god, those recruitment limits). I'd really like to do another game as Empire; I haven't played Empire since my first weeks with the original game and I'd love to revisit them now I'm much better at this stuff. But my co-op companion hasn't played High Elves yet and we were thinking High Elves/Empire as an option for our first Mortal Empires co-op campaign. In which case, I might take Lizardmen or maybe Vampires for my solo game.
  • ResidentKnievel 27 Oct 2017 10:22:22 7,421 posts
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    Rogueywon wrote:
    But my co-op companion hasn't played High Elves yet and we were thinking High Elves/Empire as an option for our first Mortal Empires co-op campaign.
    Those poor Bretonnians!
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 27 Oct 2017 10:33:11 9,030 posts
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    ResidentKnievel wrote:
    Rogueywon wrote:
    But my co-op companion hasn't played High Elves yet and we were thinking High Elves/Empire as an option for our first Mortal Empires co-op campaign.
    Those poor Bretonnians!
    You read my mind!

    The most obvious first major expansion step for Empire in that campaign setup is to pounce on Bretonnia and devour it. I'm not sure how the Chaos invasion works in Mortal Empires. If it's less of a threat than it was in TW:W1, then the pressure for Empire to expand east is going to be much reduced. You could go for all-out war with Bretonnia while using diplomacy to confederate the other Empire factions in slower time.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 27 Oct 2017 21:03:52 9,030 posts
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    Skaven campaign completed. Final battle was a bit touch-and-go towards the end. Think my army composition could have been better. If I continued the game, it would be a massive war against Lothern, who had almost entirely eliminated the Dark Elves. But no... next up is Mortal Empires.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 28 Oct 2017 14:54:59 9,030 posts
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    Started a Mortal Empires campaign as Vampire Counts, taking Mannfred von Carstein (edge-lord drama-fest in a perpetual grump over his failure to land a starring role in the Twilight franchise) as my legendary lord. Done 22 turns so far, so thought I'd post a few early thoughts.

    It's basically what it says on the tin. It's the worlds of both games linked together. When you click "end turn", the number of factions that flashes past at the top of the screen is terrifying. I'm still only in Sylvania and its immediate surroundings, but the sheer size of the world map is a bit intimidating.

    With the exception of the Norsca pack, which is going to be patched in later, all of the DLC and FreeLC from the first game is present and correct. That includes Regiments of Renown and the like. In fact, if you pick an Old World faction, you are playing a very, very full-featured version of the old game. The only things missing that I've seen so far are:

    a) Norsca playable faction (coming soon via a patch).
    b) The introductory/tutorial missions that certain Legendary Lords get (though all other character-missions are present).
    c) The achievements from the original game.

    One thing I'm not clear on yet is how Chaos work in this. There is no Chaos Warriors faction scrolling past when I click "end turn", so I'm guessing it works exactly how it did in the original game. That's going to be a bit scary if you're Lizardmen, starting right down in Lustria.

    In terms of gameplay, there's a touch of homogenisation between the factions. Heroes have been put onto the standardised skill tress of the second game, which makes them feel a bit less varied, though Lords retain their old skill trees. Some of the more eccentric qualities of the Old World factions have been smoothed a bit. Vampires no longer fold up quite so quickly if you kill their Lord.

    What is nice is having the UI and quality of life tweaks from the second game available when playing with Old World factions. Though I still wish skirmish mode for ranged units would default to "off" (though this isn't really a problem for Vampires).

    All told, it's left a positive impression so far. Looking forward to playing it in co-op.

    Edit: In fact, pretty BLOODY MAJOR edit: Restrictions on capturing towns are completely gone now in Mortal Empires. So playing as Vampires, I'm happily capturing Dwarf towns. The new "habitability" rating from the Vortex campaign in the second game is used instead.

    Co-op just got more complicated.

    Edited by Rogueywon at 16:33:44 28-10-2017
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 9 Nov 2017 15:54:14 9,030 posts
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    Previously paused my Mortal Empires game due to a massively severe bug relating to how the Chaos invasion functions. That's fixed as of today (there was a beta-fix a few days ago), so resuming my game now. Looks like I stopped just before the point at which the patch wouldn't have fixed my game.
  • basmans_grob 9 Nov 2017 22:08:33 1,487 posts
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    Confused about victory in mortal empires. I've been playing as Chaos and my conditions are take out Empire, Brets, and Dwarves. Nothing about the new world nor any indication about rituals so they seem completely pointless.
  • Tabasco 10 Nov 2017 06:29:44 5,869 posts
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    Rituals are for the Vortex campaign only so don't appear in Mortal Empires.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 14 Nov 2017 15:58:17 9,030 posts
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    Some more thoughts on Mortal Empires. I'm moving into the end-game of a Vampire Counts solo campaign (Chaos dealt with, closing in on victory conditions. I'm also getting into the mid-game of an Empire/High Elves co-op campaign (I'm Empire), where we're just getting to grips with the first Chaos wave.

    It's generally very impressive. It had some serious bugs when it first went live, but those have been hotfixed now. It is, without a doubt, the largest Total War campaign ever. That's even more impressive when you consider just how many factions it contains and how asymmetrical those factions are.

    Victory conditions in solo play vary per faction. Having messed around a bit with a few factions, it seems that the general approach is to let most factions spend most of the game in either the New or the Old World, but with one particular condition that requires them to range further afield. Diplomacy/trade centred factions (e.g. High Elves, Bretonnia, Dwarves, Wood Elves) have a strong incentive to expand their contacts quickly anyway, as you can send income from trade agreements through the roof very quickly with such a large world map. More militaristic factions need to pick their fights very carefully; end up at war with the wrong faction and you can bring a terrifying number of their allies into conflict with you very quickly.

    Victory conditions in co-op are a bit dull; simple conquest, unit count and research conditions. Would be nice to see these made a bit more interesting via a future patch.

    The pace is generally quite quick compared to either the TW:W1 grand campaign or the TW:W2 Vortex campaign. Balance changes and new content since TW:W1 have made the Old World races a bit faster to expand than they were previously (Empire's economy is a lot more robust now). Not having to defend during Vortex Rituals means you don't need to be as defensive as in the main TW:W2 campaign. Following the latest hotfix, the Chaos Invasion now comes later than it did in TW:W1 and is also generally easier to deal with. This leaves you more free to play Mortal Empires as a traditional Total War Grand Campaign, though it does lose a bit of the End Times feel from the setting.

    Replacing TW:W1's settlement restrictions with the TW:W2 habitability system is a total game-changer. In some respects, it helps. Clearing out Greenskins from the mountains around your start area is much easier as Empire when you can occupy their towns. In other respects, it complicates things. An alliance between Empire and Dwarves has always been an obvious (and lore-friendly) step in a campaign as either of those two factions, but having competition for territory between them adds an edge to the relationship that wasn't there before.

    The changes to town sizes also have a significant impact. Most provincial capitals have more production slots now. That means fewer tough choices about whether to make a newly acquired province into a production or an economic territory. On the one hand, this does lend itself to a more flexible playstyle. But I do think something has been lost here; those painful strategic choices were a big part of the game previously, particularly on the higher difficulties.

    Vampire Counts have been fun to play solo, but are probably not the best way to experience Mortal Empires. They've always favoured a slow, conservative playstyle, as your expansion rate is limited by your ability to spread construction. This means they aren't a great way to see that huge world map. But I've still been able to take them into battle against Skaven and High Elves, both of which were fun.

    Empire/High Elves has been a really good co-op combination. The two factions have different habitability preferences, which reduces (without eliminating) competition for territory. Their start positions also give them both obvious expansion directions that don't conflict with each other. As Empire, I focussed on conquering Bretonnia early while uniting the other Imperial factions through confederation. This worked really well and gave us a secure sea-border between our respective territories. I've just finished off the last of the Old World Vampire factions and am routing armies North to face Chaos (aiming to draw up a defensive line around Bechafen and hold them there).

    Looking forward to the upcoming updates. We're expecting the free patch that brings the "full" Norsca faction, as well as the Lord skill changes, into TW:W2 in December, I think. There is also a large Vampire faction down in the South East of the world map that is blatantly a placeholder to be replaced with Tomb Kings, in what I'm expecting to be a paid DLC next year.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 17 Nov 2017 00:04:58 9,030 posts
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    Ok, so Mortal Empires is still a bit buggy, it seems.

    We spawned the large (Archaeon) Chaos Invasion tonight in our Empire/High Elves game. Except Chaos didn't spawn and instead we immediately got the "Age of Peace" condition. It's a little irritating, but not a huge deal. We've still got a lot of conquest to do.

    But it is a slight pity we didn't get to fight off Chaos. Had Archaeon come in with his usual armies in the usual place, he would have found 6 full-strength, top-tech Empire armies ready and waiting for him, with a couple of others a few turns away.
  • Gregolution 29 Nov 2017 20:23:55 10,060 posts
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    Having not really got into this yet..... the Dark Elves are doing it for me. Fun to play, loads of options in battle and nice unique campaign features in the slaves.

    Also fighting interesting enemies in the scaven at the start.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 29 Nov 2017 20:55:23 9,030 posts
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    Delfs are fun in the early-to-mid game. I found them a bit duller in the end-game, because their armies tend to become a bit homogenous. But they're generally a decent race to play as. Make sure to get a Black Ark as quickly as you can - they take a long, long time to tech and recruit up enough to be any practical use, but are worth it if you can get them there.

    I've finished Mortal Empires now as both Vampires (solo) and Empire (co-op with Helfs). Kind of awesome, but also still quite buggy and rough around the edges.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 19 Jan 2018 10:47:51 9,030 posts
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    They've been patching the Mortal Empires strategic AI quite a bit behind the scenes!

    In another Mortal Empires co-op game at the moment. This time, I'm Bretonnia, my partner is Clan Angrund. We did this combination before in the first game, albeit with the roles reversed. It's an interesting co-op proposition. Your adjacent start positions (I'm the Carcasonne subfaction, so I start right next to Angrund) mean you are working in close co-operation from before turn 20, but you are both playing as difficult factions and it's very much "hard mode".

    We scraped through the early-game well enough; the main difference at this point in Mortal Empires is the presence of Skavenblight; a large Skaven settlement (hence not present in the first game) pretty much adjoining your territories, which has to be taken out early by a combined assault before it becomes a real problem. I helped Angrund make their mad-dash to Karak Eight Peaks and they seized it around turn 35 or so, which basically turns them into a stronger version of the main Dwarf faction.

    But by this point, something really interesting had happened. Both Empire and the regular Dwarf faction had expanded like crazy, through a combination of confederation and really aggressive military expansion. When Chaos arrived (it's still bugged, but is now easier than intended rather than harder), it got ganked in record time. While Bretonnia and Angrund were there and fighting, the bulk of the work was done by those two big AI factions.

    The post-Chaos "Age of Peace" then turned into a really, really huge two-on-two brawl between Bretonnia/Angrund on one side and Empire/Dwarves on the other. A massive, largely symmetrical war of the kind we've seen in previous Total War games, but which I've never previously seen in the end-game state of a Warhammer title, despite a couple of dozen playthroughs across the two titles.

    Certainly makes life more interesting in the turn 100+ in Mortal Empires!
  • Tabasco 23 Jan 2018 20:21:45 5,869 posts
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    WhooHoo! Time to get my Skelly on!
  • Zidargh 19 Sep 2019 12:16:12 2,048 posts
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    Anyone still playing this? I just downloaded the Hunter and the Beast DLC for more dinosaurs.

    I do however have a strange relationship with the game. I love the idea of it, read up on it constantly and get excited by the updates. But when it comes to playing it, I feel too overwhelmed by choice to truly enjoy it.

    Also, I just loaded up my first ME campaign and one turn look a ridiculous amount of time to load.
  • Gregolution 22 Dec 2019 10:57:13 10,060 posts
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    Tried starting a scaven campaign and completely overwhelmed with options. The game is vast - sometimes feels like they put mechanisms in for the sake of it rather than for clever gaming.

    Why would I keep corruption high in my own area? So I can get more menace from below triggers when defending? Can I reverse it if I'm not getting attacked as much? Wouldn't it be better to spread corruption in other peoples land so I can get menace below when expanding AND affect their public order?

    Why would I build undercities instead of capturing enemy settlements? I always find the balance of when to capture or just race really odd. I never know how many settlements I should manage. In Civ it's easier to know because you have a metric based on strategic resources - they only stretch so far. How do I judge it in TWW2?

    Are rites specific to scaven? I have one unlocked that allows me to create undercities with a hero.
  • GloatingSwine 22 Dec 2019 11:35:15 3,890 posts
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    Gregolution wrote:
    Why would I build undercities instead of capturing enemy settlements? I always find the balance of when to capture or just race really odd. I never know how many settlements I should manage. In Civ it's easier to know because you have a metric based on strategic resources - they only stretch so far. How do I judge it in TWW2?
    The strength of Undercities is that you can make them with agents, so you can establish undercities relatively cheaply in settlements without fighting for them, and use them to give you either income or food.

    How many cities you "should" have varies with different factions, but mostly it's however many you can actually live properly in given your faction's habitability (there are some weirdies like Norsca).

    With Skaven it's all about how much you can feed. You need to keep your food up, if you've got high food you can afford to expand.

    Corruption will cause you trouble because, well, Skaven are a bunch of treacherous infighting backstabbing rats, but corruption spreads by osmosis to your neighbours so it will cause them troubhle as well.
  • captbirdseye 26 Jun 2020 08:05:39 9,646 posts
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    I noticed a few of the DLC's are no sale. Any tips on which ones to get and avoid?
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 26 Jun 2020 08:16:25 9,030 posts
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    @captbirdseye The big ones are "Rise of the Tomb Kings" and "Curse of the Vampire Coast". Those add entirely new playable factions, on the same scale as the four from the base game. The others add legendary lords to the existing factions. They're not bad as such and are probably worth it at the price, but they're not as game-changing as the big two.
  • captbirdseye 26 Jun 2020 08:47:42 9,646 posts
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    Thanks Roguey :)
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 26 Jun 2020 09:51:20 9,030 posts
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    Be warned the Vampire Coast aren't an easy faction to get started as. Their economy takes a long time to get going and their low-tier units are shit. Very strong late-game, though.

    Wonder how I'd find the Warhammer games now I've got 80 hours of Three Kingdoms under my belt. My sense is that 3K is a good bit harder than the Warhammer titles.
  • captbirdseye 26 Jun 2020 10:04:01 9,646 posts
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    I've only just got back into it after completing the vanilla version ages ago. So I should have a ton of extra content with these DLC's and more on the way looking at their road map.
  • ResidentKnievel 26 Jun 2020 10:07:40 7,421 posts
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    Major SFO Grimhammer mod update is out today if anyone's looking for a major departure from vanilla gameplay.
  • ResidentKnievel 26 Jun 2020 10:10:30 7,421 posts
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    Ikit Claw and Grom the Paunch DLC's are well worth it, they're full of character and are great twists on their respective factions' gameplay.

    An ikit claw army with a dozen weapons teams, artillery and doom rockets is hilarious.
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