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I think a big part of the problem here is that these are people who are convinced of their own innate virtue. You look at Weinstein's statement on the allegations and it basically boils down to "I don't like Trump, I don't like the NRA, so I must be a good person. Here's some waffle about my personal journey - aren't I fascinating - now shut up and leave me alone". Stone, likewise, is somebody who is deeply, deeply in love with himself and considers himself a high moral figure. Reminds me, in many ways, of the sex scandals/child abuse in the Catholic Church and quite a few of the Southern Baptist churches (and no doubt in many other religious institutions). The people responsible both regarded themselves as high moral authorities and were seen that way by others. Their consciences get switched off because they're convinced that, as "good people", nothing they do can be really bad. This is Hollywood, so of course traditional religion isn't a factor. But certain political/social views have a similar role there and similarly allow people to make a grab for high moral status while masking their own appalling behaviour. A few years ago, I had to do a number of fairly lengthy business trips to the US bible belt (Oklahoma). Most of the people there are actually lovely. But there was a rule of thumb, shared with me by somebody who was himself pretty bloody religious, that if you found yourself talking to somebody who starts their sentences with "As a Christian, I..." you'd found an asshole. Proved a very reliable rule of thumb. You don't have to try too hard to imagine what the Hollywood equivalents might be. Edited by Rogueywon at 12:21:34 15-10-2017 |
Weinstein sexual harassment accusations • Page 5
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Rogueywon 12,387 posts
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Registered 16 years ago -
In fact, just 4 days ago there was a good article published by German newspaper ZEIT on the topic of sexual abuse in the former GDR. The state was in control of children's homes, youth centres etc. as well as of police, judiciary, media etc. Rape and abuse were obviously things that didn't happen in the communist system, least of all in state institutions, so any incidence was principally concealed and only the victims were punished (for telling lies).
That of course allowed the abuse to thrive, pretty similar to what happened/happens in the church, Hollywood... or the BBC. Or in West German children's homes/youth psychiatry etc. for that matter.
Far too many women (and some men, for that matter) I've known could tell their stories of abuse, rape, harrassment, violence. It is depressingly, shockingly omnipresent in all of human society, but probably more prevalent under certain circumstances than others. I guess the less it's talked about, the more it happens--that's why I think publicity and awareness are so incredibly important. -
chopsen 21,958 posts
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Registered 16 years agoSpaceMonkey77 wrote:
You big tease, you
But again I will speak less on this. I've said enough already. -
Decks 31,013 posts
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Registered 6 years agoYou're really bad at not speaking about something. -
Youthist 14,723 posts
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Registered 16 years agoI see the arse hat has posted almost 10000 times on the comments pages. Sums it up really. -
JamboWayOh 25,236 posts
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Registered 8 years agoHi guys just thought I'd pop in and write some nonsensical musings. I won't be back after this post.
P.S. See you in five to ten minutes. -
Mola_Ram 26,187 posts
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Registered 9 years agoFFS, just use the ignore button or something. -
Mola_Ram 26,187 posts
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Registered 9 years ago@Rogueywon the problem that you describe, I think, is that people associate all sorts of negative things and beliefs with being a "bad person".
It's an issue that I think media and popular culture has exacerbated. In that if you ever see someone with (for example) racist beliefs in a movie, they are more often than not an absolute monster. When in reality, all kinds of people have prejudices, and having them does not mean that they're irredeemable inhumans. It's just easier to paint them as "bad people", because it makes us feel better about the human race in general if they're not counted as part of it. -
ghearoid 3,758 posts
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Registered 19 years agoMola_Ram wrote:
Ah, I forgot there even was an ignore button. I haven't had to use that since the days of BillGatesIsEvil. Whatever happened to that one?
FFS, just use the ignore button or something. -
Mola_Ram 26,187 posts
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Registered 9 years agoghearoid wrote:
He got banned. I'm not sure what the catalyst was, it was ever so long ago.
Mola_Ram wrote:
Ah, I forgot there even was an ignore button. I haven't had to use that since the days of BillGatesIsEvil. Whatever happened to that one?
FFS, just use the ignore button or something.
It's weird btw that the ignore button doesn't turn up in mobile view. You have to switch to desktop mode, press it, then switch back.
But once you do that, though, it's heaven. No people shitting up threads with stupid bullshit (aside from those who keep wasting energy responding to the bullshit, as if any insult or pithy joke is going to make any difference). -
chopsen 21,958 posts
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Registered 16 years agoMola_Ram wrote:
I'd have to switch out of mobile view for that
FFS, just use the ignore button or something. -
Harvey is reading this thread and will have his vengeance. I have said too much already. -
JamboWayOh 25,236 posts
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Registered 8 years agocraigy wrote:
Glol. Ahh I needed that. Thanks for the belly laugh Craigy.
Harvey is reading this thread and will have his vengeance. I have said too much already. -
Decks 31,013 posts
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Registered 6 years agoMaybe Weinstein was the one that done the stealing of his creative works. Maybe Shakespeare in Love was based on a short story that SpaceMonkey wrote about having sex with his neighbours guinea pig. -
Rogueywon 12,387 posts
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Registered 16 years ago@craigy I'm sure he is.
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Rogueywon 12,387 posts
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Registered 16 years ago@Decks You know what... I really, really wish that on just one of those occasions people had said to SpaceMonkey "you know, your posts could be read as implying that all your neighbours hate you because you've been convicted of some horrible sex-crime" he had said "no". We'd have no means of knowing whether or not a denial was actually true. But it would still have made me feel better. -
JamboWayOh 25,236 posts
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Registered 8 years agoWell he seems to love me anyway. I'm not a preteen, but I'm pretty sexy for a 34yr old male. Maybe he's branching out in his sexual tastes. If I'm the one for him to get over his nonce tendencies then so be it. -
Daryoon 5,912 posts
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Registered 20 years agoI'm more horrified at the idea that someone with such godawful grasp of grammar and syntax considers themselves a writer...
Horrified, but not surprised. I've hung around enough writing groups to never be surprised. -
JamboWayOh 25,236 posts
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Registered 8 years agoRight I think monkey man has shitted up the thread enough. Let's get back on topic. It is incredible at how these revelations about Weinstein have opened up the floodgates for people in other and the same industry to come forward. What I do wonder is will this ultimately lead to proper change or be a newspiece for a while then business will resume after an appropriate amount of time. -
Daryoon 5,912 posts
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Registered 20 years agoIt'll go the same way things went with Saville, I suspect: a bunch of big name celebrity downfalls taking all the heat while everything else gets brushed under the carpet. -
JamboWayOh 25,236 posts
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Registered 8 years agoDaryoon wrote:
That's what I pretty much think. Big name people fall, everyone congratulates themselves on a job well done,service resumes as normal.
It'll go the same way things went with Saville, I suspect: a bunch of big name celebrity downfalls taking all the heat while everything else gets brushed under the carpet. -
Technoishmatt 5,365 posts
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Registered 7 years agoLet's all collectively agree not to put up with any of this bullshit or any enabling behaviour in our own daily lives and call it out when we see it as unacceptable.
We have to be a part of the solution.
Edited by Technoishmatt at 17:21:27 15-10-2017 -
Youthist 14,723 posts
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Registered 16 years agoTechnoishmatt wrote:
But Mola said we should just use the ignore button on him.
Let's all collectively agree not to put up with any of this bullshit or any enabling behaviour in our own daily lives and call it out when we see it as unacceptable.
We have to be a part of the solution. -
Skirlasvoud 4,039 posts
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Registered 11 years agoJamboWayOh wrote:
Reason that people come out only now - even the women themselves have admitted - is because Weinstein's power is waning. He really did have the Hollywood influence to make or break career once. If you shoot for the king, you'd better hit. Make an accusation against Weinstein and not be able to make it stick, would amount to suicide.
It is incredible at how these revelations about Weinstein have opened up the floodgates for people in other and the same industry to come forward. What I do wonder is will this ultimately lead to proper change or be a newspiece for a while then business will resume after an appropriate amount of time.
What set it off is that he no longer is the hottest thing in town. That's a breach. Then ONE brave woman took the opportunity to knock the crown off. Then all the other women came out to take further potshots at him while he's already tumbling down the steps, adding to the litany of society that looks down upon that behaviour, but conveniently only after the fact.
It's fascinating how power normalizes behaviour. The women who were his victims would rather not talk about it for fear of reprisals or give the impression they were damaged goods. For everyone else, taking Weinstein down was simply too much work. Besides, his bad behaviour didn't affect them.
It says something about human nature that the man has been dethroned, not because someone pulled him off, but because the chair began to crack.
That also allows me to answer your next question: It will be a newspiece for a while until until someone else ascends to the throne, with all the power that brings corrupting him into a new Weinstein. He'll get away with it because he's powerful and will then normalize that behaviour to be able to sleep at night. Everyone will normalize it because they don't want to deal with the ugly truth of human nature and rather only jump on the bandwagon when it passes.
Edited by Skirlasvoud at 17:55:20 15-10-2017 -
JamboWayOh 25,236 posts
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Registered 8 years agoSkirlasvoud wrote:
I see what you're saying but it's not just one man, this is systemic within the industry since it was a thing. Real change needs to be actioned but as long as there are unsure,naive, young actors just getting into the profession, those who hold the keys to their fame and success will always take advantage. As has been mentioned it's the human condition.
JamboWayOh wrote:
Reason that people come out only now - even the women themselves have admitted - is because Weinstein's power is waning. He really did have the Hollywood influence to make or break career once. If you shoot for the king, you'd better hit. Make an accusation against Weinstein and not be able to make it stick, would amount to suicide.
It is incredible at how these revelations about Weinstein have opened up the floodgates for people in other and the same industry to come forward. What I do wonder is will this ultimately lead to proper change or be a newspiece for a while then business will resume after an appropriate amount of time.
Now that someone knocked the crown off, a lot more people are taking potshots.
It's fascinating how power normalizes behaviour. The women who were his victims would rather not talk about it for fear of reprisals or give the impression they were damaged goods. For everyone else, taking Weinstein down was simply too much work.
It says something about human nature that the man has been dethroned, not because someone pulled him off, but because the chair began to crack.
That also allows me to answer your next question: It will be a newspiece for a while until until someone else ascends to the throne, with all the power that brings corrupting him into a new Weinstein. He'll get away with it because he's powerful and will then normalize that behaviour to be able to sleep at night. Everyone will normalize it because they don't want to deal with it. -
Skirlasvoud 4,039 posts
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Registered 11 years agoI know it's not just one man. Power as a corrupting influence pervades the industry, for as long as young actors are desperate to get into it.
Otherwise, yes, you are right. It's the sucky part of the human condition and I don't think we can affect change as long as the industry is such a pressure cooker of fame, desire, broken dreams and unrealistic hope. Fame and Hollywood wouldn't be the same without it though. People are scumbags who'll take advantage.
Edited by Skirlasvoud at 17:59:35 15-10-2017 -
Daryoon 5,912 posts
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Registered 20 years agoI'm reminded about the David Cameron pig-fucking incident, and how fraternities have these demeaning initiation rituals for the express purposes of blackmail, a sort of peer-enforced sword of Damocles that ensures no one steps out of line for fear of exposure.
You can guarantee it's the same with this shit. Paedophiles, too. The amount of shit people like Saville would have had on people... -
Daryoon wrote:
That case was genuinely unnerving when you factor in how he had so many connections within the upper echelons of society ;Margaret Thatcher, the royal family, the head of Stoke Mandeville hospital.
I'm reminded about the David Cameron pig-fucking incident, and how fraternities have these demeaning initiation rituals for the express purposes of blackmail, a sort of peer-enforced sword of Damocles that ensures no one steps out of line for fear of exposure.
You can guarantee it's the same with this shit. Paedophiles, too. The amount of shit people like Saville would have had on people...
Edited by JamboWayOh at 18:05:59 15-10-2017
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