The worldwide Nazi/White Supremacist problem Page 6

  • MrTomFTW Best Moderator, 2016 13 Nov 2017 14:18:34 47,496 posts
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    RandolphCarter wrote:
    But their violence nourishes the Far Right, that's my point. By all means protest against something you disagree with, but resorting to violence then undermines your own credibility and allows your opponent to spin their position into one of moral superiority.
    If there's one thing the alt/far-right have proven already is that they don't need moral superiority, and they don't need violence against them. Where there is no threat, they'll make it up - see also Charlottesville rally ostensibly being about a statue that "the left" was going to pull down, and more recently the right wanking themselves silly over the idea of "antifa supersoldiers" that were going to go on a violent killing spree on Nov 4th.
  • Tonka 13 Nov 2017 14:43:57 29,543 posts
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    This is stupid.

    Anyone claiming that fighting Nazis is as bad as being a Nazi is either a paid Troll or a Nazi.

    Stop feeding their tactic
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 13 Nov 2017 14:47:49 10,273 posts
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    Maybe they're just pacifist to a fault?
  • Tonka 13 Nov 2017 14:52:06 29,543 posts
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    No.

    Anyone who thinks wether or not it's a good idea to fight Nazis is a discussion with having is a tool.
  • Rhaegyr 13 Nov 2017 14:55:56 4,735 posts
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    I think the discussion is what's the best way to fight Nazis, not whether we should fight them at all.

    The answer is: every fucking way.
  • CalamityJames 13 Nov 2017 15:04:27 231 posts
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    RandolphCarter wrote:
    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    @RandolphCarter Make Eurogamer great again
    But was it EVER great? We shouldn't be swept away by Romantic nostalgia of a past that never was....:cry:
    It was great when it was orange! Oh, wait...
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 13 Nov 2017 15:06:18 10,273 posts
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    I suppose in the grand scheme of things you can't punch the hate out of each and every one of them but it does help break up their immediate presence on the streets
  • KD 13 Nov 2017 15:19:40 2,087 posts
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    How do people get that bad?

    Better education for it I'd say and making sure people dont slip into a lonely lifestyle and end up begrudging people who are different for whatever reason and can still manage to have a social life.

    Seeing grown adults spout shit from either side is tiresome, be it a skin head nazi, ultra feminist lesbian etc, I know a few trans people who had terrible times randomly and those lot can be awfully selfsih about some things in life and I got no problem telling them.
  • disusedgenius 13 Nov 2017 15:23:39 9,793 posts
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    RandolphCarter wrote:
    Sure, if a group in particular is violent and committing acts of violence then they need to be dealt with appropriately
    Well quite.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 13 Nov 2017 15:25:47 10,273 posts
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    Education and a more responsible press would be much more effective in the longer term at killing the ideology than punching.
  • KD 13 Nov 2017 15:37:40 2,087 posts
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    Not on topic but..

    My primary school had the disabled kids mixed with everyone else's classes at a time when my friends schools sectioned them off to a couple of special classes and made them a fenced off area of the playground. My school had to pay a bit more for specialist teaching assistants to cover them mixed in with us for the needs that had but most of us ended up helping, I pushed a lad in a wheelchair every day to class and around on break, I thought it was helping my rugby tbh but that kid was cool as fuck when it came to video games and was a best friend before we all moved on from the school.

    I learnt from that alone how my attitude was different to what my friends thought about them, if I heard anything untoward I told them to not be a dick.
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 13 Nov 2017 15:48:16 19,829 posts
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  • simpleexplodingmaybe 13 Nov 2017 15:48:19 10,273 posts
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  • simpleexplodingmaybe 13 Nov 2017 15:49:40 10,273 posts
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  • LittleSparra 13 Nov 2017 16:40:51 7,926 posts
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    RandolphCarter wrote:
    Or are humans inherently fucked? Do we always draw lines and impose demarcation between 'us' and 'them'? I genuinely wonder: how easy is it to encourage violence, conquest and even genocide? Is it in our nature to WANT to have a common enemy to focus our tribe's efforts against?

    It has been suggested that we obliterated the Neanderthals (admittedly, it is one of several theories), we forced various forms of megafauna into extinction on a global scale. The only thing left to destroy is ourselves.
    There probs is something neurological that predisposes people to do this. But empathy isn't a liberal construct: it exists in people alongside fear. The eternal lie of the extremist is that there is a 'natural' (as in genetics, or race, or history, or some other immutable fact) reason we must hate.

    Politics should be about alleviating fear and inspiring (unleashing) empathy...

    Edited by LittleSparra at 16:42:54 13-11-2017
  • Rodney 13 Nov 2017 17:14:33 3,865 posts
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    Tonka wrote:
    RandolphCarter wrote:

    But Antifa isn't an army. They are the English Defence League of the Far Left.
    If Antifa wins they'll go back to smashing windows. If EDL win there will be death camps
    I would be equally scared of the consequences of either group attaining poltical power - but at this moment in history nazism is obviously the far more immediate threat.

    Antifa as a movement/group doesnt appear to have any political aims beyond protesting fascism - but I would be very worried about its members attaining political or governmental power. They support an inherently violent and authoritarian ideology that has resulted in hundreds of millions of deaths.
  • LittleSparra 13 Nov 2017 17:22:06 7,926 posts
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    I am confused about antifa=commies. No doubt many are on the left, and many probs pretty far left, but do 'they' have a position that can generally be described as 'supporting' such an ideology?
  • Rodney 13 Nov 2017 17:22:31 3,865 posts
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    I should probably add to my previous comment that I dont see Nazis and Antifa as morally equivalent. Antifa are obviously coming from a much better place and with better intentions

    But I think the consequences of their ideology could be as bad as nazism if society adopted it as an organising principle. Considering how dependent many countries are on international trade for food security, the consequences of a planned economy and collectivised farming could be terrible.
  • Rodney 13 Nov 2017 17:26:25 3,865 posts
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    LittleSparra wrote:
    I am confused about antifa=commies. No doubt many are on the left, and many probs pretty far left, but do 'they' have a position that can generally be described as 'supporting' such an ideology?
    Well Im open to being corrected on that point, but my understanding was that its membership is substantially communist - although not exclusively since the movement is organised around protesting fascism not advocating communist revolution.

    The rhetoric from its members seems to be consistent with this at least.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 13 Nov 2017 17:50:39 10,273 posts
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    I think there's a few things confused within antifa as far as I'm aware, not unconnected to those 'anarchists' who agitate for nationalisation and massive state involvement in public life. Essentially being, well, anti-fa is the one real unifying principle.

    Which isn't a bad one really.
  • MrTomFTW Best Moderator, 2016 13 Nov 2017 17:55:08 47,496 posts
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    There's communists in antifa, there's anarchists in antifa, and there's probably anarcho-communists in antifa (assuming that's a thing).

    edit: oh and socialists, and anti-capitalists.

    Edited by MrTomFTW at 17:56:22 13-11-2017
  • LittleSparra 13 Nov 2017 18:05:00 7,926 posts
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    Collectivisation is a disaster. Just not sure anyone is using antifa to advocate that.
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