The worldwide Nazi/White Supremacist problem Page 2

  • H1ggyLTD 12 Nov 2017 22:00:57 11,916 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    And I think it's also a consequence of automation. Technology has made a lot of traditional trades for these dumbasses redundant and they need someone to blame.
    Take it out on the robots then.
  • nickthegun 12 Nov 2017 22:07:39 76,794 posts
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    There's usually fewer robots coming to your country to claim asylum.
  • H1ggyLTD 12 Nov 2017 22:08:01 11,916 posts
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    Give them time.

    Swines.
  • nickthegun 12 Nov 2017 22:10:03 76,794 posts
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    Now I'm thinking of that story in the Animatrix with the robot city.

    So that's the way the world ends.
  • beep 12 Nov 2017 22:30:30 514 posts
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    I still think Agent Smith's 'humans are a virus...' monologue in The Matrix holds true...
  • jiveguy 12 Nov 2017 22:54:38 917 posts
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    I work with a guy who calls himself a liberal (the European kind, not the American kind). He thinks that one of the reasons for the rise in this populist nationalism is that there is a lack of engagement in debate by both the left and the right. He thinks that a lot of the followers of these groups could be persuaded to develop a more centrist view. He actually blames the left for not engaging. I'm not convinced. I think the left and those with a more liberal or centrist bent HAVE tried (over many years) to engage but we still see these groups gaining popularity and becoming more extreme in their views.

    So what's to be done then? Do you keep trying to engage while extremism rises and a more general acceptance of ethno-nationalist views enter the population? Do you fight it and not give it a platform? Or is there something else that can be done? It's frustrating :(
  • Deleted user 12 November 2017 22:59:13
    Cue Higgy who'll probably come in now and rant about how he hates centrist rationality because, apparently, irrationality is the new black and political extremism is the new moderate.

    Edited by FilthyAnimal at 22:59:40 12-11-2017
  • challenge_hanukkah 12 Nov 2017 23:02:58 9,974 posts
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    Not an intransigent Corbynista momentum member?

    Get in the sea you satanic Nazi!
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 12 Nov 2017 23:03:35 9,474 posts
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    FilthyAnimal wrote:
    Cue Higgy who'll probably come in now and rant about how he hates centrist rationality because, apparently, irrationality is the new black and political extremism is the new moderate.
    Gulag for anyone who has shopped in Sainsbury's
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 12 Nov 2017 23:05:14 5,231 posts
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    @simpleexplodingmaybe Let's be fair here. I'd happily drop a nuke on every branch of Sainsbury's in the UK and fuck the collateral damage.

    But that's because they are Jamie Oliver enablers.

    When it comes to Jamie Oliver, you've got to take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
  • H1ggyLTD 12 Nov 2017 23:12:37 11,916 posts
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    Did somebody mention being rational?
  • Skirlasvoud 12 Nov 2017 23:33:59 4,039 posts
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    MrTomFTW wrote:
    So are we past the "ignore them and they'll go away" and "violence will only embolden them" stage yet?
    Yes, let's move onto the "let's buy a machete/cudgel/gun and fight them in the streets / burn down the Reichstag" stage. That worked so well in Spain and Germany and totally took care of Franco/Hitler before anything bad happened.

    Not ignore, but I'm at a loss what to do otherwise. I'm at the point where I've given up on humanity and just accepted that these things pop up as part of human nature.


    As someone who devours documentaries on this shit, I always ask myself the question: "What would Roosevelt do?"

    ... still coming up with an answer...

    Edited by Skirlasvoud at 23:37:47 12-11-2017
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 12 Nov 2017 23:37:07 9,474 posts
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    It's a shame more weren't discouraged when Nick Griffin managed to go from insurgent, thorn in the side of the liberal establishment to national laughing stock who even his own disgusting party disowned in the space of one episode of QuestionTime
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 12 Nov 2017 23:38:24 9,474 posts
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    Although speaking of Question Time maybe we wouldn't be in this mess if they hadn't had Farage on every fortnight for about three years running
  • Skirlasvoud 12 Nov 2017 23:43:18 4,039 posts
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    Mfolf wrote:
    Iím starting to think all this mess is because Skirlasvoud keeps posting absolute bollocks all the time.
    You're right! Denigrating and suppressing dissenting opinions that do not coincide with majority concensus is totally what we need to do to fight Totalitarianism and safeguard democracy!
  • Dirtbox 12 Nov 2017 23:54:34 91,020 posts
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    I just remembered something, this was ISIS's goal. Kindle xenophobia and force all muslims into a position where they have to fight all non-muslims. Just another example of how terrorism eventually wins.
  • Skirlasvoud 13 Nov 2017 00:11:10 4,039 posts
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    It's no use I think, trying to convince or persuade the alt-right to have other ideas. They're subject to their circumstances and either do not possess, or want to see things any other way. It's narcissism. They've wed their identity to their misgivings and don't want to be proven wrong. They're victims to their own tribalism and they're being very poor at rational human beings.

    To fight the alt-right, I fear we need to change the circumstances we are dealing with, which requires a power that is beyond individual control. Fascism is a nasty snag in the currents of the human condition. It's always been there, but modern media and popular mobilization from the 20th century onwards has allowed it to swell over in dangerous degrees.

    And it just sucks we can't control it. It's apparent we can't point back to what happened the previous century. These people will just come up with reasons why they think they're different than that and their cause is right. Non-Western cultures by now, simply see it as something exotic.



    Many of the fascist government came to power not in the very depths of an economic recession, but through the deep trauma and memory of these while coming out of them.


    We only managed to survive the last spat of fascism, not because we nipped it in the bud (because the left already tried that in Germany and Spain, the latter to a brutal civil war), but because western democracies identified it as a threat and rallied against it only after it matured.

    Like b0rk said, it's all very depressing.
  • Deleted user 13 November 2017 01:14:17
    jiveguy wrote:
    I work with a guy who calls himself a liberal (the European kind, not the American kind). He thinks that one of the reasons for the rise in this populist nationalism is that there is a lack of engagement in debate by both the left and the right. He thinks that a lot of the followers of these groups could be persuaded to develop a more centrist view. He actually blames the left for not engaging.
    it's insane to me that this point of view still exists. the western world has "enjoyed" centrist governments for decades. this emboldening of the right and left is a direct or indirect reaction to the slow realisation that centrist politics only support the status quo: moving wealth to a smaller and smaller percentage.

    centrism failed. it has no answers. no one is going to get in on a "more of the same!!!" ticket anymore.
  • Load_2.0 13 Nov 2017 01:17:30 28,783 posts
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    The problem is the left and right are so polarised it's pushing moderates to extremes. EG is a microcosm (full of left leaning hippy tardos) that reflects the wider problem.

    Dare to suggest that migration may have have had a detrimental effect in a country or that a population is struggling to integrate and that's it you're a Nazi.

    Conversely raise the many benefits of immigration or challenge the Alt Right argument and you're a bleeding heart liberal traitor who can't see the Jihadists raping children in the playgrounds.

    Everything is extreme. Everyone is labelled and no one dares to entertai the other sides point of view. The issues are not addressed, it becomes a slanging match with each side scratching their head as to why the other is so stupid.
  • reddevil93 13 Nov 2017 01:22:13 14,825 posts
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    Thatís why discussing politics anonymously on the internet is so pointless yet dangerous. Itís either echo chambers or arguments that Putin is probably driving.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 13 Nov 2017 01:23:36 9,474 posts
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    Blair-Clinton Third way approaches might be pretty discredited now but considering what followed was Cheney's culture wars, Osborne's austerity, Brexit and Trump the smug status quo of PS1 era doesn't look so bad in comparison
  • mal 13 Nov 2017 01:36:06 29,326 posts
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    Edit: Wrong thread.

    Edited by mal at 01:36:35 13-11-2017
  • H1ggyLTD 13 Nov 2017 07:17:27 11,916 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    Blair-Clinton Third way approaches might be pretty discredited now but considering what followed was Cheney's culture wars, Osborne's austerity, Brexit and Trump the smug status quo of PS1 era doesn't look so bad in comparison
    Imagine being able to completely divorce these eras in your mind.

    Must be nice.
  • Tonka 13 Nov 2017 07:32:06 29,235 posts
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    Load_2.0 wrote:
    The problem is the left and right are so polarised it's pushing moderates to extremes. EG is a microcosm (full of left leaning hippy tardos) that reflects the wider problem.
    .
    Left / Right is outdated. The sooner people embrace the gal/tan the better. As it is (in america at least) the Republicans rather endorse pedophilia than go against their party.

    What is needed is to allow people to be conservative and humane at the same time. Or progressive and defend the upholding of the law at the same time. (i.e. religious and or cultural differences are no excuse for separate bath times etc)

    The Swedish right did a nice trick with this a decade ago when they said "We're the worker party. We want people to have jobs, not benefits!"

    The left couldn't respond because they were stuck in their thinking. Then came right wing nationalistic populism and cleaned house once the well fare state had been damaged enough by tax plundering.

    Load_2.0 wrote:
    Everything is extreme. Everyone is labelled and no one dares to entertai the other sides point of view. The issues are not addressed, it becomes a slanging match with each side scratching their head as to why the other is so stupid.
    This is a bullshit response wheeled out by the side that is losing the argument. I've seen ti used by both sides and it's just as lame in both cases.
  • PazJohnMitch 13 Nov 2017 08:07:07 14,253 posts
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    Not sure if MrTom set this thread up for discussion or as a trap for would be Nazis.
  • Mola_Ram 13 Nov 2017 08:15:57 19,361 posts
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    PazJohnMitch wrote:
    Not sure if MrTom set this thread up for discussion or as a trap for would be Nazis.
    What's the point in discussion? Apparently violence is the only way forward now. I've got my bat - who's with me?

    Or, more importantly, who's *against* me?

    /glares menacingly
  • MrTomFTW Best Moderator, 2016 13 Nov 2017 08:26:18 47,495 posts
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    Just to be clear though, I'm not saying everyone should go out and beat up anyone who seems to align with Nazi ideology. I'm saying that when an actual, literal Nazi like Richard Spencer gets a chinning we could do less of the hand-wringing and "ooooh this is playing right into their hands" nonsense because hey, look what's happening as you do that.
  • Deleted user 13 November 2017 08:30:30
    PazJohnMitch wrote:
    Not sure if MrTom set this thread up for discussion or as a trap for would be Nazis.
    TBF, if you become a Nazi then there is no problem. You probably shouldn't become a Nazi.
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