The worldwide Nazi/White Supremacist problem Page 3

  • challenge_hanukkah 13 Nov 2017 08:35:23 9,973 posts
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    I've reflexively started goose stepping down the street now thanks to this thread.
  • PazJohnMitch 13 Nov 2017 10:03:01 14,253 posts
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    mecha-DR wrote:
    PazJohnMitch wrote:
    Not sure if MrTom set this thread up for discussion or as a trap for would be Nazis.
    TBF, if you become a Nazi then there is no problem. You probably shouldn't become a Nazi.
    I have no intention of becoming a Nazi.

    Edited by PazJohnMitch at 10:03:16 13-11-2017
  • Load_2.0 13 Nov 2017 10:04:21 28,783 posts
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    MrTomFTW wrote:
    Just to be clear though, I'm not saying everyone should go out and beat up anyone who seems to align with Nazi ideology. I'm saying that when an actual, literal Nazi like Richard Spencer gets a chinning we could do less of the hand-wringing and "ooooh this is playing right into their hands" nonsense because hey, look what's happening as you do that.
    So if you disagree with someone's views it's OK they get attacked?
  • Load_2.0 13 Nov 2017 10:06:05 28,783 posts
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    Tonka wrote:

    Load_2.0 wrote:
    Everything is extreme. Everyone is labelled and no one dares to entertai the other sides point of view. The issues are not addressed, it becomes a slanging match with each side scratching their head as to why the other is so stupid.
    This is a bullshit response wheeled out by the side that is losing the argument. I've seen ti used by both sides and it's just as lame in both cases.
    I don't understand the point you're trying to make here.
  • Malek86 13 Nov 2017 10:15:39 8,254 posts
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    MrTomFTW wrote:
    Just to be clear though, I'm not saying everyone should go out and beat up anyone who seems to align with Nazi ideology. I'm saying that when an actual, literal Nazi like Richard Spencer gets a chinning we could do less of the hand-wringing and "ooooh this is playing right into their hands" nonsense because hey, look what's happening as you do that.
    But if nazis are getting punched across the board and then their support seems to be actually increasing, isn't that a bad thing? Or is it unrelated?

    I'm going to go with the coincidence bit, as I really don't think that's what they want and I doubt that people would actually feel more sympathy when a nazi gets punched. However I must also admit that it doesn't seem like it is helping all that much either.

    I suppose it makes one feel good, but as far as solutions go, I question its effectiveness.

    Edited by Malek86 at 10:18:01 13-11-2017
  • MrTomFTW Best Moderator, 2016 13 Nov 2017 10:21:02 47,495 posts
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    Load_2.0 wrote:
    MrTomFTW wrote:
    Just to be clear though, I'm not saying everyone should go out and beat up anyone who seems to align with Nazi ideology. I'm saying that when an actual, literal Nazi like Richard Spencer gets a chinning we could do less of the hand-wringing and "ooooh this is playing right into their hands" nonsense because hey, look what's happening as you do that.
    So if you disagree with someone's views it's OK they get attacked?
    Heh, I like the way you make it sound like their views are benign or something. Rather than them having violent plans to genocide minorities and the disabled, and have the western world run as a fascist white ethno-state, and they've already assaulted people and murdered in their pursuit of it.

    Edited by MrTomFTW at 10:22:43 13-11-2017
  • Load_2.0 13 Nov 2017 10:30:04 28,783 posts
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    Did Richard Spencer reconsider his stance? Did being punched cause him to have an epiphany?

    Surely a violent response simply results in an escalation in violence?

    Attack the ideas, undermine the argument and illustrate the flaws of white supremacist thinking.
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 13 Nov 2017 10:31:33 18,495 posts
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    Unless we just kill them all.
  • LittleSparra 13 Nov 2017 10:32:26 7,926 posts
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    Talk to them! But no effect!
    Punch them! But no effect!

    I think this discussion sits on wobbly ground.
  • thelzdking 13 Nov 2017 10:33:24 9,048 posts
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    Perhaps we can train them to punch themselves.
  • Load_2.0 13 Nov 2017 10:33:58 28,783 posts
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    LittleSparra wrote:
    Talk to them! But no effect!
    Punch them! But no effect!

    I think this discussion sits on wobbly ground.
    That's because no one is using +1 weapons.
  • Malek86 13 Nov 2017 10:35:53 8,254 posts
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    LittleSparra wrote:
    Talk to them! But no effect!
    Punch them! But no effect!

    I think this discussion sits on wobbly ground.
    I would say "ignore them", but it seems we are already past that stage as well.

    I honestly can't see a solution. And after all, when you get 60 thousands marching, there just isn't that much you can do, either with words or violence (maybe state-sanctioned violence, but that won't happen).

    Edited by Malek86 at 10:36:26 13-11-2017
  • MrTomFTW Best Moderator, 2016 13 Nov 2017 10:57:15 47,495 posts
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    You can't debate with Nazis like Spencer. People like him don't care for what we see as rationality and logic, for them our views are a result of a degenerate world poisoned by Islam, controlled by Jews and infested with people of colour. He will never have an epiphany from being confronted over his views either.

    Gary Yonge interviewing Spencer recently helps to let your every day person see his "views" in a clearer light, less controlled by Spencer himself. But for those who are fully indoctrinated, they won't care. They'll just see Spencer standing up to a n****r, who they no doubt think should be put down.

    So yeah a punch won't give Spencer an epiphany, it's not meant to - but what it DOES do is show him and his followers and like-minded white supremacists/nationalists that we know they don't care about debate and that there will be resistance.

    Debate is good for the moderates, keep doing that. But spare us from the moralising over a Nazi getting punched.
  • cowell 13 Nov 2017 10:59:40 1,780 posts
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    Not saying there isn't a white supremacist problem in Poland, but from the sounds of it a regular march in Warsaw has been joined by a proportion of neo-nazis. I suspect that labelling all 60,000 folk on that march as neo-nazis is entirely unhelpful, but makes great headlines, right?!

    EDIT: Okay reading more, it doesn't look great does it. Seems like that regular march has been hijacked. Was interesting enough for Tommy Robinson to show up. Ugh...

    Edited by cowell at 11:04:03 13-11-2017
  • Rodney 13 Nov 2017 11:01:51 3,766 posts
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    MrTomFTW wrote:
    Load_2.0 wrote:
    MrTomFTW wrote:
    Just to be clear though, I'm not saying everyone should go out and beat up anyone who seems to align with Nazi ideology. I'm saying that when an actual, literal Nazi like Richard Spencer gets a chinning we could do less of the hand-wringing and "ooooh this is playing right into their hands" nonsense because hey, look what's happening as you do that.
    So if you disagree with someone's views it's OK they get attacked?
    Heh, I like the way you make it sound like their views are benign or something. Rather than them having violent plans to genocide minorities and the disabled, and have the western world run as a fascist white ethno-state, and they've already assaulted people and murdered in their pursuit of it.
    Then they should prosecuted for those crimes. We dont endorse vigilante violence against other criminals and hate groups

    Should we start punching comnunists and Islamists as well?
  • thelzdking 13 Nov 2017 11:04:09 9,048 posts
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    We should ban fists.
  • Load_2.0 13 Nov 2017 11:06:40 28,783 posts
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    MrTomFTW wrote:
    Debate is good for the moderates, keep doing that. But spare us from the moralising over a Nazi getting punched.
    At this point you are leftist version of a Daily Mail commentary.
  • MrTomFTW Best Moderator, 2016 13 Nov 2017 11:07:50 47,495 posts
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    RandolphCarter wrote:
    Was just reading through the New York Times story and it appears that my interpretation is correct: it IS an annual march celebrating independence, and it has been latched onto by extremists.
    The march was organised by a group called National Radical Camp, which claims to be a direct descendant of the Nazi group of the same name from the 30s and 40s.

    When a march is organised by Nazis, attended by Nazis, promotes the values of Nazis and has people bearing banners with Nazi slogans (openly calling for holocaust no less), at what point do we stop and go "hey maybe all these people were at a Nazi march"?
  • Skirlasvoud 13 Nov 2017 11:16:04 4,039 posts
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    @Mfolf

    Wait, now you agree that punching is what they want? Which is something I've been pointing out from the start and you calling that bullocks? What's your angle here?
  • Skirlasvoud 13 Nov 2017 11:18:22 4,039 posts
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    Mfolf wrote:
    Antifa isnít an extremist group
    Oh yes they are!

    Extremist:
    A person who holds extreme political or religious views, especially one who advocates illegal, violent, or other extreme action.
    I'd say that breaking the law to commit violence or other extreme actions to stop the alt-right is just as extreme as the alt-right itself is.
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