Skirlasvoud wrote:Substantively not, though. A Nazi has a far greater claim to the moral nadir trophy than an Antifa protestor. |
The worldwide Nazi/White Supremacist problem • Page 4
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LittleSparra 7,926 posts
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Skirlasvoud 4,039 posts
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Registered 11 years agoLittleSparra wrote:
True, and I'm not saying that Antifa is worse than the Nazi and that I don't morally agree with Antifa.
Substantively not, though. A Nazi has a far greater claim to the moral nadir trophy than an Antifa protestor.
But let's not mince words here and call something for what it is. If we were to get rid of the Nazis the moment Antifa lobbed a brick at some shop-owners window, Antifa would ironically be the next best thing the moment that brick hit.
Edited by Skirlasvoud at 11:28:40 13-11-2017 -
When comparing Nazis to antifa I like to think "what are their win conditions?" -
Great people on many sides -
Violence is such a broad term. What sort of violence are we talking? What sort of violence is each side known for? -
Decks 31,013 posts
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Registered 6 years agoThey extremely don't like fascism and nazis. -
Tonka 31,979 posts
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Registered 18 years agoMrTomFTW wrote:
Won't even have to go as far as Nazis. If the Swedish nationalistic party get what they want I will have to leave the country (since I'm a race traitor).
When comparing Nazis to antifa I like to think "what are their win conditions?"
If antifa get what they want then banks will have to stop their profiteering, Apple, MS, Google etc will pay tax and I have to continue to not buy my burgers from McD's
Alas, we've seen what a bored grassroots movement will do once their main motivator is taken care of and it's not a pretty sight. *cough*culture revolution*cough* -
Skirlasvoud 4,039 posts
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Registered 11 years agoI get your point MrTom, I really do. I am willing to admit I'm a hand-wringer with no real solutions.
But I'll be damned if I stop discussing the direction taken by our society, EVERY step of the way. I'd be accused of moralistic preaching by the alt-right too, with my outdated and false notions of an equatable society.
I'm just not willing to have the means justify the end, no matter how clear and present the goal.
I'll shush now though. It's clear you've started this thread for no other reason than wanting people to agree with your sentiment. You may well be right and maybe my concerns should be muted for that sentiment to spill over into something positive and world-changing. I just hope discussion will still be possible after that. -
Malek86 12,331 posts
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Registered 14 years agoIt's like playing Destiny and walking on a public event where two enemy factions are killing each other.
And then you start shooting rockets in all directions.
Edited by Malek86 at 11:38:51 13-11-2017 -
JamboWayOh 25,236 posts
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Registered 8 years agoSkirlasvoud wrote:
This is bordering on a Spacemonkey level of writing. Needs more ampersands and a good luck.
I get your point MrTom, I really do. I am willing to admit I'm a hand-wringer with no real solutions.
But I'll be damned if I stop discussing the direction taken by our society, EVERY step of the way. I'd be accused of moralistic preaching by the alt-right too, with my outdated and false notions of an equatable society.
I'm just not willing to have the means justify the end, no matter how clear and present the goal.
I'll shush now though. It's clear you've started this thread for no other reason than wanting people to agree with your sentiment. You may well be right and maybe my concerns should be muted for that sentiment to spill over into something positive and world-changing. I just hope discussion will still be possible after that. -
Mola_Ram 26,187 posts
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Registered 9 years agoIf people want to abandon the norms that have made our societies so free and open, for the sake of fighting a handful of people who want to hurt us (people use the same arguments for fighting terrorists too, btw), then they are free to do so. But I won't be joining them, or supporting them. -
JamboWayOh 25,236 posts
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Registered 8 years agoFor the sake of balance shall we just not kill, every terrorist, nazi and antifa member? -
SiroccoJetProp 430 posts
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Registered 5 years agoThe Allied Forces.
The original antifa. -
Skirlasvoud 4,039 posts
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Registered 11 years agoDecks wrote:
After that they also extremely don't like the imperial capitalist super-state responsible for grinding up the proletariat, which is pretty much the world we're living in right now.
They extremely don't like fascism and nazis.
If not, they're just rebels, god bless, but there's a darker side to that too.
I mean, good for them that they're venting their frustrations against a deserved target right now, but I have little hope they'll put down the bricks and sticks afterwards.
Fascism in 1936 Spain started as a rightist counter-revolution to an alt-left (antifa) uprising.
Luckily the alt-left in the form of Antifa isn't as dangerous in the here and now, but I fear the two things feed into each other.
God dammit I did it again! This isn't a thread where you can argue. MrTom, do you have it in your power to single-thread ban dissenters?
/Tries hard to stay away -
Tonka 31,979 posts
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Registered 18 years agoRandolphCarter wrote:
If Antifa wins they'll go back to smashing windows. If EDL win there will be death camps
But Antifa isn't an army. They are the English Defence League of the Far Left. -
SiroccoJetProp 430 posts
Seen 14 hours ago
Registered 5 years agoRandolphCarter wrote:
To compare antifa to the EDL of the far left, is quite frankly, ludicrous.
Mfolf wrote:
But Antifa isn't an army. They are the English Defence League of the Far Left.
RandolphCarter wrote:
No this doesn’t hold up. See every use of force by an army. Violence to achieve aims is not extremist.
MrTomFTW wrote:
You cpuld just as well ask: how do they seek to achieve those aims? Through violence.
When comparing Nazis to antifa I like to think "what are their win conditions?" -
JamboWayOh 25,236 posts
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Registered 8 years agoTonka wrote:
Not sure about that, if EDL wins there will be a rise in the stock price of Stone Island, at the very least.
RandolphCarter wrote:
If Antifa wins they'll go back to smashing windows. If EDL win there will be death camps
But Antifa isn't an army. They are the English Defence League of the Far Left. -
SiroccoJetProp wrote:
The Allied Forces.
The original antifa.
Antifa thugs showing off items stolen from government building in violent uprising, circa 1945.
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Mola_Ram 26,187 posts
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Registered 9 years agoHe's talking about methods, not ideology. I still don't agree that they're comparable, but to point out that one is racist and one isn't is to watch the point go flying right over your head. -
Aren't you all arguing about different things?
Comparing physical action and moral positions?
Like violence can be good or bad but in the abstract it's still violence. Whereas extreme political positions polarise far more.
It feels like this thread is everyone talking beside each other not with each other
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