Slay The Spire Page 17

  • Graxlar_v3 22 Oct 2020 19:53:01 10,806 posts
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    4th I mean
  • Graxlar_v3 22 Oct 2020 19:53:02 10,806 posts
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    4th I mean
  • Rogueywon 22 Oct 2020 20:40:27 10,695 posts
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    4th is certainly on iOS.
  • oldskooldeano 22 Oct 2020 23:29:42 3,285 posts
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    The next Watcher is on consoles yes.

    And Roguey, I have a huge amount of respect and admiration for you knowing you have done Ascension 20 on all four characters. It’s truly impressive to me!
  • Rogueywon 22 Oct 2020 23:33:34 10,695 posts
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    @oldskooldeano I'm now working on an Ascension 20 Heart run. No luck so far, but I think I can see a Defect build that might be able to do it.
  • Rogueywon 23 Oct 2020 23:53:36 10,695 posts
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    And fucking DONE!

    Did it with the Silent in the end. Basically went for a pretty hardcore version of the poison/leg sweep deck, with three upgraded catalysts, an upgraded burst, a noxious fumes and a corpse explosion (plus a few poison cards). Starting gift was "remove two cards, lose all gold". By the end of the run, my only attack was neutralise, as I'd removed all the others.

    Act 1 boss was the Slime. I already had a bunch of poison cards and an upgraded catalyst by that point, so he never landed a hit on me.

    Act 2 boss was the Collector. Got a bit hairy, but used a catalyst and a corpse explosion to deal with the adds both times they spawned.

    Act 3, the first boss was Donu/Deka, who are easy, then Time Eater, who goes down easy to a poison/leg sweep build provided you get the timing of the catalysts right (and avoid his heal/status cure).

    Burned through the Spire Shield/Spear combo in two turns with a couple of poisons, a catalyst and a corpse explosion (plus noxious fumes to strip their artifact).

    The Heart is fucking evil on A20, not least because you take 2 damage, not 1, for each card played. I've had about a dozen runs end at that point, which gets insanely frustrating. This time, RNJesus smiled on me. I had the Torii and Tungsten Rod relics, which are pretty much essential, and the cards came out in exactly the right order. Managed to get his poison to around 400 with the aid of a duplication potion for an upgraded catalyst, then just spammed Leg Sweep (I had 2 upgraded and 1 normal) until it died.

    Used a lizard tail on the Act 2 boss, which does kinda put an asterisk next to the accomplishment, but whatevs. Done with this now.

    You get absolutely nothing special for an A20 heart run. No achievement, no art, nothing.
  • Tetsuo_Shima 24 Oct 2020 10:43:03 185 posts
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    You get my congratulations! That's a smashing achievement, squire! Can you take a pic of your run summary for us to digest?
  • Rogueywon 24 Oct 2020 12:52:25 10,695 posts
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    Sure:

    The amount of RNG involved in that was epic. As you can see, I took a pretty aggressive path through Act 1, but it didn't throw any of the nasty regular fights at me (not a single slime/slaver combo, as those are near guaranteed heavy health-loss). Similarly in Act 3, I didn't get a Reptomancer. Nor did I get any of the bad events that dump a curse in your deck (like that fucking wheel of fortune).

    Tempted to try it with the Defect, but... no. This is enough.

    Edit: Also, guess it was a fairy bottle, not a lizard tail, I used on the Act 2 boss.

    Edited by Rogueywon at 12:54:13 24-10-2020
  • tadejpogacar 11 Dec 2020 10:50:46 407 posts
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    I am truly pish at this.
  • askew 11 Dec 2020 10:54:47 22,605 posts
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    Yeah… I've had a run with each character, but really haven't spent any time considering my deck :D
  • tadejpogacar 11 Dec 2020 22:14:16 407 posts
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    Another 15-20 runs today... Still no completions. FML.
  • Mola_Ram 11 Dec 2020 23:22:58 25,155 posts
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    If you post screenshots of your run results, people here might be able to offer advice.
  • Rogueywon 12 Dec 2020 09:36:08 10,695 posts
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    Also, I'd been pining for something similar, having pretty much exhausted StS... but Monster Train seems to be doing pretty damned well as a substitute. Mixes in a bit of tower defence in the mechanics, but there's still that StS gameplay loop at the heart of it.
  • Murbs 12 Dec 2020 10:12:57 24,964 posts
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    I'll have a look back at some of my early wins and post the seeds here. Might help?

    Edit @tadejpogacar

    Edited by Murbs at 10:13:51 12-12-2020
  • Rogueywon 12 Dec 2020 10:52:04 10,695 posts
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    tadejpogacar wrote:
    Another 15-20 runs today... Still no completions. FML.
    Some basic tips for beginners:

    - Don't let your deck get too big. This is the number 1 mistake that most new players make - adding too many cards. As a general rule, once a deck gets above 20, it is definitely too big and most of my winning decks at high ascension ranks have been a good bit smaller than that. Removing cards at merchants is a good use of cash (your starter strike/defends in particular), as is taking the "remove card" option at events.

    - Some cards are great on their own, while some require synergies. So for instance on the Ironclad, Flame Barrier tends to stack up pretty well on its own (though there are cards and relics that will make it better). But if you want to get the best out of Body Slam - a card that some top-end decks are built around - you will absolutely need the right cards and relics to support it (e.g. Barricade and Entrench). There are wikis with builds that show some of the best synergies.

    - Try to fight lots of enemies and elites in Chapter 1. Elites in particular are a good way of snagging lots of relics in the early game. Fights against elites can go wrong very quickly in acts 2 and 3.

    - Think about damage in terms of both what you can do upfront and how you can scale it. Some cards give you good damage in a single turn, but there isn't much you can do to boost them. Cleave, for instance, is a good solid AoE hit, but it's not going to scale into anything special. Heavy Strike, on the other hand, can become lethal if you get a lot of strength scaling - it's not hard to do over 500 damage in a single hit with it.

    - The act bosses essentially serve as "gear checks". To get past the act 1 bosses, you're generally fine with a deck based around upfront damage. For the act 2 bosses, you will need some degree of damage scaling. For the act 3 bosses, you will need exponential damage scaling.

    - To illustrate what that means, sticking to the Ironclad for a moment and looking at a strength build (one of the simplest scaling builds), a deck which was just normal attack-type and defend-type cards is probably ok for the act 1 boss. For the act 2 boss, you'd want something that gives you strength scaling - Demon Form, for instance, or a couple of Spot Weaknesses. For the act 3 boss, you'd probably want an upgraded Limit Break or two, which allows you to double your strength, rather than just adding a fixed amount to it.
  • tadejpogacar 12 Dec 2020 16:29:18 407 posts
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    Thanks - oddly, I have been trying to do most of that. Thinning out Strikes; not taking cards in every battle; trying to run builds with some combinations of strength scaling via Demon Form, Flex, Spot Weakness (not shown below); focussing on Ironclad runs. I'll keep at it. Just annoying that I feel like I have a grasp on a lot of the main synergies, types of Ironclad build, optimal pathing etc but I still haven't managed to get past Act 3. I'll see if I can post up some screengrabs of some runs.

    edit: just looking at some runs and it looks like my hand is regularly over 20+. I'll focus on trying to keep the deck lean, and only pick up something if it synergises with the theme of my build.





    Edited by tadejpogacar at 16:36:18 12-12-2020
  • Rogueywon 12 Dec 2020 16:51:50 10,695 posts
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    @tadejpogacar Yeah, looking at those, deck size is definitely your problem. You've got quite a lot of "utility" cards that aren't adding much. Cards like Offering, Fiend Fire, Body Slam, Master of Strategy, Second Wind... those have niches in specific builds, but they're massively situational.

    As a general rule, it's better to take no card at all after a fight than to take a bad card.

    Edit: Also, 4x Flex and a Flex+? Christ...

    Flex can be an ok card if you've got a couple of Limit Breaks, but it really has no place in your deck just for its 1-turn boost. Unless you have a multiplier card you can play (and remember, if you play a flex for +2 strength then Limit Break to double that, you'll only lose 2 at the end of the turn, leaving you up 2 overall) don't take it.

    Edited by Rogueywon at 16:54:43 12-12-2020
  • tadejpogacar 12 Dec 2020 18:20:23 407 posts
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    Thanks. I'll report back 😬
  • Murbs 12 Dec 2020 19:12:18 24,964 posts
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    Fire Breathing can be a really useful card for the ironclad
  • tadejpogacar 12 Dec 2020 19:50:28 407 posts
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    @Murbs Yeah - I picked that up in my last run, because I had the Act 1 boss that puts Burns in your deck. I didn't draw any strength cards in my run through though so wasn't generating enough DPS and... died. (Again.)
  • Rogueywon 12 Dec 2020 20:11:32 10,695 posts
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    I had a Fire Breathing deck that I cleared something like A3 or A4 with in the iOS version. It was pretty hilarious - take as many curse cards and cards that give you curses as possible and stack a few upgraded Fire Breathings. Wouldn't fancy it on the higher ascension ranks, but it destroyed Deka and Donu at low levels.
  • damagedinc 13 Jan 2021 10:39:46 3,006 posts
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    Might sound like a silly question.

    I have just started this. I have some 0 cost cards. I assume I should always play those before my "costing" cards. Seems like a free hit? But dont know if I'm missing something.
  • Duffking 13 Jan 2021 10:45:43 16,728 posts
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    It depends on the card, really. Some like Intimidate have the Exhaust keyword, so you can only play it once per fight, so you need to use it when you most need it.

    Others have drawbacks, like Bloodletting so you won't want to use it too often as you lose HP. Battle Trance stops you drawing any further cards for a turn, which if you have a draw heavy deck would not be great. Alternatively, Clash has quite a specific requirement to be able to play it.

    Others, yes, you'd want to play ASAP. Stuff like Rage, but things like anger you might want to wait until you have buffs up.

    As a rule 0 cost cards are either slighty worse than a 1 cost, can get better after a few turns, have a stringent play condition, or some kind of drawback to offset their low cost.
  • Rogueywon 13 Jan 2021 10:46:37 10,695 posts
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    @damagedinc It depends. There's no hard and fast reason why you should play 0 cost cards first. Sometimes, you might go the other way around. For instance, on the Ironclad, Bash is a 2 cost card, while Anger is a 0 cost card. If you're playing both cards in the same turn, you would pretty much always want to play Bash first. Why? Because it applies the vulnerable status, meaning that your Anger will do 50% more damage than it would if you played it first.

    By and large, when thinking about the order you play your cards in on a given turn, it's best to think about any synergies between them. In many cases, it won't matter. But in other cases, it absolutely matters. For instance, if you have a card in your hand that increases your strength by a set amount (e.g. Inflame or Spot Weakness) and a card that doubles your strength (Limit Break), you obviously want to play the former before the latter. The same applies to poison cards and Catalyst on the Silent.
  • damagedinc 13 Jan 2021 11:26:22 3,006 posts
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    Ah that makes sense thankyou.

    My 0 cards dont seem to have any negative traits at the moment but that's something I'll look out for.

    Good fun isnt it haha
  • Rogueywon 13 Jan 2021 11:32:00 10,695 posts
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    Some 0 cost cards can be great. For my sins, I'm working my way back up the ascension ranks on my iPhone, having already beaten Ascension 20 as all four characters on PC. My Ascension 16 run as the Ironclad combined the Shuriken (increases strength by 1 when you play 3 attacks in a turn). relic with a bunch of Anger cards. Add a couple of decent block cards and an upgraded Limit Break and that's a real powerhouse deck. Didn't need to take any of the boss relics that increase energy.
  • Mola_Ram 13 Jan 2021 12:28:58 25,155 posts
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    I guess the thing is to only put stuff in the deck that you really think you're going to need. If you're just taking cards because they're offered to you, then it will make it harder to draw the cards that you really need.

    So while 0 cost cards are "free" in terms of energy, they may cost you in another way. Even cards that are potentially really powerful (like Limit Break) shouldn't be taken too early, because they will just be taking up space until you maybe find a way to make them useful.

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 12:34:52 13-01-2021
  • Murbs 13 Jan 2021 13:02:06 24,964 posts
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    Go easy on the zero cost cards that add a copy into your deck (like Anger) ... Things can get out of hand (if you'll excuse the pun).
  • Rogueywon 13 Jan 2021 13:05:47 10,695 posts
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    Yep, keep your deck size under tight control. It's better to not take a card than to take a card you don't need.

    There aren't really "good" and "bad" cards. Oh, ok, there are a few bad cards, I guess, but even "good" cards only work if they fit with your deck and relics. So an upgraded Limit Break is at the heart of some of the top-end Ironclad strength-scaling builds. But if you've got nothing that gives you strength to begin with, it's as useless as Injury.

    The Anger deck absolutely can go horribly wrong - you can easily get to a point where you're drawing 5 Anger cards on a turn where you need to defend. But it can still be a viable top-end deck if you balance it to scale up rapidly to end fights in a few turns.
  • Mola_Ram 13 Jan 2021 13:14:04 25,155 posts
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    Yeah, I used to think that Anger was really bad. But just because you draw it, doesn't mean you have to play it. ANGER CAN BE CONTROLLED
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