Following Annihilation Page 2

  • Mola_Ram 8 Mar 2018 14:36:12 17,974 posts
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    Tonka wrote:
    Had you read the second book by then? What made you think she was a good fit?
    I hadn't read it by then, no. I don't know what my impression would have been like after I'd read it. The Asian business is really just a couple of lines about the shape of her face. It's never mentioned again.

    Anyway, sometimes you just hear about some casting and go "yep, that's basically perfect". I'm not entirely sure why in this case, but I had visions of Portman's character in V for Vendetta, and it just seemed to work.

    If I were to go with someone who's racially correct... I'm not sure which modern Asian actress could have pulled it off. Maybe Michelle Yeoh, but she's a bit old for this particular part imo. The problem is that they're already under represented in Hollywood, and this creates a self-reinforcing cycle (in that you can't cast Asian actresses as big movie leads because there aren't many who are well-known, but they're not well-known because they're not ever cast as leads in movies, etc)
  • Tonka 8 Mar 2018 15:28:10 27,960 posts
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    Exactly. And it's made worse by the annihilation excuses.

    It's hardly mentioned in the books. i.e. The character isn't deemed Asian enough to warrant a non famous Asian actress. Had she been raving about her mother's dumplings and bragged about her math skills then maaaaybe.

    Of course Alex Garland read her as a white hot chick. So did I. That's why it's called a norm, and there in lies the poodles kernel. She's white until the white male director says she isn't.

    It's made *even* worse by things that would require spoiler tags for me to go into and I'm on my phone so it'll have to wait.

    Please note that I'm not directing my rant at mola_ram. I know full well that he didn't have anything to do with the casting.

    I just want to point out that the handwaving and complete surprise at the fact that the character was partly Asian is just as bad, of not worse, than the fact that they cast a famous white actress as the lead.
  • beastmaster 8 Mar 2018 16:36:39 18,291 posts
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    Cast famous white actress in the lead and the film gets made. If you don't, it's highly unlikely the film's even going to get a green light. It's that simple.
  • Mola_Ram 8 Mar 2018 21:40:34 17,974 posts
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    I'm not saying that it isn't an issue. But there are better/worse examples of the practice to tie your mast to.

    If every thing is worth equal outrage, then you're going to get tired pretty quickly.

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 22:44:44 08-03-2018
  • askew 8 Mar 2018 22:23:27 16,795 posts
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    Is this out tomorrow?
  • askew 8 Mar 2018 22:24:13 16,795 posts
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    No.
  • Tonka 9 Mar 2018 08:19:08 27,960 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    I'm not saying that it isn't an issue. But there are better/worse examples of the practice to tie your mast to.

    If every thing is worth equal outrage, then you're going to get tired pretty quickly.
    This was exactly the reaction I tried to avoid. You have no need to feel as if I'm attacking you personally, since this is the very definition of a structural problem. I'm not outraged nor am I tying any masts or going down with ships. I'll watch the film.

    I just wanted to point out that Alex Garlands defence of the cockup just highlights the problem. Non whites are invisible and can be brushed aside "because they're hardly mentioned in the book".

    WARNING the spoiler text contains a SPOILER for the Film (and possibly the book)

    Also the fact that an asian actor got to play an alien mimicking Natalie Portman makes this comically klutzy

    Edited by Tonka at 09:14:47 09-03-2018
  • StarchildHypocrethes 9 Mar 2018 09:03:41 31,639 posts
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    Highlighting that the above is a story spoiler would probably be handy.
  • Phattso 9 Mar 2018 09:22:19 23,314 posts
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    Yeah, fuckyoverymuch for having a spoiler there days before the thing even airs over here. I thought there were unspoken rules about that sort of wankery? Nice work. Iím going to objectify fifteen non-white women today as punishment.
  • Rhaegyr 9 Mar 2018 09:35:14 4,456 posts
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    Heh, I saw that too - hopefully it's not too big an impact, plus I don't think he intentionally wanted to spoil it for us :confused:
  • Tonka 9 Mar 2018 09:36:00 27,960 posts
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    If only there was a way to indicate that a text contained spoilers.... 🤔
  • StarchildHypocrethes 9 Mar 2018 09:40:21 31,639 posts
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    It's almost as if context is key.
  • Tonka 9 Mar 2018 09:42:55 27,960 posts
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    Lesson learned
  • Phattso 9 Mar 2018 10:49:20 23,314 posts
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    Yeah, don't try and handwave this one. Especially as you had been VERY SPECIFIC in previous posts that you weren't going to go into further detail because spoilers. And then you spoilered.

    I agree it's unlikely you were doing it out of spite, but at least put your hand up to it. That has for sure taken the shine off something I was really really looking forward to.
  • Bambot 9 Mar 2018 11:41:26 1,181 posts
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    Tonka wrote:
    Heavy white facing tho...
    Meh. The character she's playing isn't described as Asian until the second book. The script for the movie was written before the second book was published. By then it would have been pretty much settled in the writer/director's mind who everyone was going to be.

    This doesn't warrant even the slightest bit of outrage.
  • Bambot 9 Mar 2018 11:43:17 1,181 posts
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    Tonka wrote:
    Mola_Ram wrote:
    I'm not saying that it isn't an issue. But there are better/worse examples of the practice to tie your mast to.

    If every thing is worth equal outrage, then you're going to get tired pretty quickly.
    This was exactly the reaction I tried to avoid. You have no need to feel as if I'm attacking you personally, since this is the very definition of a structural problem. I'm not outraged nor am I tying any masts or going down with ships. I'll watch the film.

    I just wanted to point out that Alex Garlands defence of the cockup just highlights the problem. Non whites are invisible and can be brushed aside "because they're hardly mentioned in the book".
    And I just wanted to point out that as you well know her race is not mentioned in the book that this is a movie of AT ALL. I've not even bothered with the second or third book, I couldn't care less what race any of the characters are, it doesn't appear to be remotely relevant.

    So, yeah, y'know, who cares.

    EDIT: oh, and your "Of course everyone read her as white" thing is bullshit. No they didn't. You can't prove they did. Are you gonna say that nobody read the black actress's character as black, too? So why is she being played by a black actress? And the other actresses of ethnic minority origins, why were they cast?

    Maybe, just maybe, Garland cast the actresses he saw as best embodying those characters. Did the book give him any indications of what skin colour those actresses should have? I do not believe it did, no.

    But sure, despite the presence of a variety of skin colours in the lead roles, you go ahead and get your knickers in a twist over the fact that in a later book it's very briefly mentioned that one of the characters is Asian, and yet in this film she's white. That's DEFINITELY a worthy hill to die on.

    Edited by Bambot at 11:47:10 09-03-2018
  • Mola_Ram 9 Mar 2018 12:51:28 17,974 posts
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    It's worth noting that there's apparently all kinds of representation in the movie... racial, gender, sexual orientation (and a lot of this was in the books too, though again the books didn't make much of a deal about it, it's just... there)

    This is a good thing! Good things should be encouraged, even if they don't get EVERYTHING a hundred percent perfectly.

    Anyway, it feels weird to be talking about it this much before it's even out, so I think I'll just stay away until I've seen the thing.
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 9 Mar 2018 12:58:16 14,314 posts
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    Just point me in the direction I need to be outraged and let me at them.
  • challenge_hanukkah 9 Mar 2018 13:24:56 6,635 posts
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    Are you even registered on twitter?
  • JamboWayOh 9 Mar 2018 14:16:42 7,796 posts
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    challenge_hanukkah wrote:
    Are you even registered on twitter?
    Nah mate he's still on MySpace and Bebo.
  • Mola_Ram 12 Mar 2018 09:42:37 17,974 posts
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    It's out now. I watched it, and here are thoughts...

    -It's fucking terrifying in places. The scene with the bear alone is one of the most unnerving things I've seen (and heard) in a long time. Absolute nightmare fuel.

    -It looks absolutely stunning, particularly towards the middle and end of the movie. I hope I can see it on a big screen at some point here, maybe at one of those cinemas that shows slightly older releases.

    -The head-trip at the climax of the movie is great, though I imagine that it was probably the one thing that caused the studio executives to nervously shift in their seats during the test screenings.

    -It's not really particularly close to the source material, except thematically in some parts. The general set-up is there, but it plays out rather differently.

    All in all, it's definitely one to think on (and probably watch again). I'd have theories about what exactly was going on, but I'll wait until more people have had a watch.

    Recomeded (even though it's not very faithful as an adaptation)
  • Bambot 12 Mar 2018 10:10:23 1,181 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    It's worth noting that there's apparently all kinds of representation in the movie... racial, gender, sexual orientation (and a lot of this was in the books too, though again the books didn't make much of a deal about it, it's just... there)

    This is a good thing! Good things should be encouraged, even if they don't get EVERYTHING a hundred percent perfectly.
    Exactly.
  • Scimarad 12 Mar 2018 14:59:31 9,434 posts
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    Well....as a fan of the book I loved it most of the way through despite it being very different and I thought humanising the characters was a very good move.

    But it totally lost me at the last section and I ended up being pretty disappointed because of that. It really annoyed me that they basically ended up blowing up Area X, that vast inexplicable mystery with a fucking grenade. It's The Mist all over again with their magic flame throwers. Why the fuck are movies so adamant that you have to have a problem that you can 'fix' so everything is neatly resolved? To me it just robs the central idea of all it's power in as much as the characters can do anything about it all, least of all understand it. I know it still ended on a weird note but still.

    I find it all the more annoying when a film gets so much right only to disappoint me right at the end. I can see that this is going to be one of those things that annoys the shit out of me more and more as I think about it so I'm just going to stop.

    Edited by Scimarad at 15:01:58 12-03-2018
  • the-cozen-show 12 Mar 2018 23:20:39 251 posts
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    a LOT of tarkovsky nods in this film (can't love a simulacra of your loved one from solaris; the zone from roadside picnic/stalker; burning trees sacrifice-esque. ending reminded me of under the skin too. jettisons a lot of the book but captures its vibe
  • the-cozen-show 12 Mar 2018 23:33:31 251 posts
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    I like that he adapted it from memory. I think that's a good way to do it for a book like this, which is basically unfilmable in many ways, being so impressionistic. a lot of the character of the book comes from the odd language choices. I never really got the hype behind the book tbh. seemed very thin when I read it. enjoyed the film, though it is its own thing, and agree it has its issues
  • ChiefGB 12 Mar 2018 23:50:27 8,566 posts
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    Well I watched it, not knowing anything of the book or film. It's a thing alright, I'm just not sure what. Sometimes I watch something and just think life is short and I've just burnt some more away.
  • Mola_Ram 12 Mar 2018 23:59:39 17,974 posts
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    It didn't seem like the film was ever intended to have a follow-up. So yeah, it was probably more wrapped up than the source material, which didn't resolve nearly everything even after 3 books (which was fine, because I didn't really expect or need answers).

    I personally would have preferred a movie ending where Area X consumes the whole planet, THE END, but I guess there's a limit to how unconventional they could be with a $65m budget.
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