Following Annihilation Page 4

  • Dizzy 14 Mar 2018 10:02:57 3,647 posts
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    I really enjoyed it. Well made.
  • Frogofdoom 14 Mar 2018 10:05:43 8,578 posts
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    Not sure it bombed, Its grossed 26 million of the 40 million it cost to make from a US cinema release only. Bearing in mind high quality pirated ones are available almost immediately due to the Netflix release that's not that bad. It will depend on what Netflix paid for the rights to have it for the rest of the world.
  • Bambot 14 Mar 2018 10:08:20 1,181 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    I think the clones leaving Area X has the effect of spreading the infection/cancer/whatever you want to call it, faster than it would spread otherwise.

    And it's not going to get a sequel. The film bombed. If you want more of a resolution to (some) things, then read the books. Though as mentioned they are rather different.
    Hard to say it bombed when Paramount chose not to release it in cinemas over here, or spend much on the US marketing (for the same reasons they chose to sell it to Netflix, fear of failure after BR2049 genuinely bombed).

    I'd also say the ending is designed specifically for a self-contained movie. It doesn't need a sequel, so when it doesn't get one I think the reason is more that it was never going to get one...
  • Mola_Ram 14 Mar 2018 10:15:40 17,972 posts
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    Well yeah, bit of self-fulfilling prophecy there. They released it in the wilds of February, spent very little promoting it, and dumped it to Netflix internationally. And at least partly because they had no confidence in it, it was not a resounding success.

    But regardless of what your definition of "bombed" is, it's not going to get a sequel. A sequel was never planned, and it hasn't been successful enough for a sequel to make sense financially.
  • Scimarad 14 Mar 2018 10:49:09 9,434 posts
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    Sorry, I didn't mean odd as such, just a nice moment that she still said it.
  • shamblemonkee 14 Mar 2018 11:22:36 17,916 posts
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    Weird, i was expecting to come in here and see a lot of hate. I found it pretty ropey and dull! :-o
  • Scimarad 14 Mar 2018 12:07:13 9,434 posts
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    Probably the first time on Grumpygamer that this hasn't happened isn't it? Give it a few days :)
  • Bambot 14 Mar 2018 17:51:57 1,181 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    Well yeah, bit of self-fulfilling prophecy there. They released it in the wilds of February, spent very little promoting it, and dumped it to Netflix internationally. And at least partly because they had no confidence in it, it was not a resounding success.

    But regardless of what your definition of "bombed" is, it's not going to get a sequel. A sequel was never planned, and it hasn't been successful enough for a sequel to make sense financially.
    Yes, like I said, it's not designed for a sequel. You said it wasn't going to get one because it bombed. I don't think it would have got one even if it didn't bomb, which technically it hasn't because a) it's made a lot of its money back in the US and b) it wasn't even released theatrically anywhere else.

    But yes, if you want to slap BOMB on this, feel free. You're exaggerating, but feel free.
  • Bambot 14 Mar 2018 17:53:04 1,181 posts
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    Scimarad wrote:
    Probably the first time on Grumpygamer that this hasn't happened isn't it? Give it a few days :)
    Yeah the only real argument over this is whether it's bombed (it hasn't). Nice to see a bit of positivity for something that deserves it!

    (yes yes mr "It was boring" above... it wasn't, but different strokes for different folks!)
  • askew 14 Mar 2018 18:13:50 16,790 posts
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    Bambot wrote:
    I think the sound was AMAZING. The screams of the bear, and then the music during the face-off with the clone were both spine-tingling.
    And this is where Id love to see it in a cinema. :(
  • monkehhh 14 Mar 2018 18:30:57 4,866 posts
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    Not sure we'll see much more in the way of Annihilation, but hopefully the next person who gets to decide whether to bury a film like this or not sees the positive reaction and takes a chance.
  • Mola_Ram 14 Mar 2018 21:33:19 17,972 posts
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    Bambot wrote:
    Mola_Ram wrote:
    Well yeah, bit of self-fulfilling prophecy there. They released it in the wilds of February, spent very little promoting it, and dumped it to Netflix internationally. And at least partly because they had no confidence in it, it was not a resounding success.

    But regardless of what your definition of "bombed" is, it's not going to get a sequel. A sequel was never planned, and it hasn't been successful enough for a sequel to make sense financially.
    Yes, like I said, it's not designed for a sequel. You said it wasn't going to get one because it bombed. I don't think it would have got one even if it didn't bomb, which technically it hasn't because a) it's made a lot of its money back in the US and b) it wasn't even released theatrically anywhere else.

    But yes, if you want to slap BOMB on this, feel free. You're exaggerating, but feel free.
    I don't know what the passive-aggressiveness is about, or why you even really care enough about the question to argue semantics with me. It's not like I'm saying it's a bad movie!

    Moving on now... people have apparently been comparing this to Under the Skin. I can sort of see the similarities (eg. some of the sound effects), but unlike that movie this didn't bore me to tears.

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 21:49:03 14-03-2018
  • sport 15 Mar 2018 10:22:19 14,324 posts
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    Saw it last night and loved it. Definitely need more "scifi" films of this calibre coming through the studios.

    That end sequence sound though - spine-chilling, exhilarating.
  • Frogofdoom 15 Mar 2018 10:24:45 8,578 posts
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    It is a perfect piece of music for its use, someone linked the name of it earlier in the thread.
  • The-Bodybuilder 15 Mar 2018 16:12:47 17,226 posts
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    Watched it. Kinda liked it up until it's final quarter....I think.

    I got the Scolaris vibes off of it, which I loved (both the original and the remake that many don't like), but as someone who didn't read the book and reading the explanations on here, I'm not sure if the explanations here have actually worsened the ending for me.

    Like...if the primary purpose was to create a pair of clones to infiltrate our society, seems like a bloody convoluted way of doing it. Why? The shimmer was already expanding and could've easily engulfed the earth to recreate everything. If it wanted to do it in a more stealthy manner, then there was no need for the shimmer, it's clearly shown it's capacity to change/clone and then send someone out of the shimmer almost undetected. With it's level of technology, it easily could've done what it needed to do without the drama.
    Also, if that was the intention, why those 2? It literally chewed through tens of people over the 3 years, it had an abundance of people to use.


    But lastly, what was the need of the scenes with her cheating? Felt like scenes that were cut from the final edit, as that whole reveal and scene served no purpose whatsoever
  • Phattso 15 Mar 2018 16:25:00 23,314 posts
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    @The-Bodybuilder

    Well, on the first point you're rather assuming that the shimmer actually COULD expand to engulf the world. Sure, a character in the film said it was, but what makes her the expert on what a Shimmer can do?

    On the final point, I think that the affair was very much a motivator for the character. She repeatedly says 'I owe him' which definitely reeked of guilt to me.
  • GarlVinland 15 Mar 2018 16:31:57 3,193 posts
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    Blame mother! for this not appearing in cinemas;

    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/annihilation-ending-meaning-alex-garland-natalie-portman-a8256666.html

    Gonna watch it this weekend, but challenging 5 star sci-fi is made for the big screen.
  • Blurp 15 Mar 2018 16:32:06 1,379 posts
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    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    Watched it. Kinda liked it up until it's final quarter....I think.

    I got the Scolaris vibes off of it, which I loved (both the original and the remake that many don't like), but as someone who didn't read the book and reading the explanations on here, I'm not sure if the explanations here have actually worsened the ending for me.

    Like...if the primary purpose was to create a pair of clones to infiltrate our society, seems like a bloody convoluted way of doing it. Why?
    But does it want to infiltrate? Maybe it doesn't want anything and the rebuilding of DNA that's being done all leads to it replicating other stuff. Maybe it's just its nature.
  • Frogofdoom 15 Mar 2018 16:37:36 8,578 posts
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    The affair also covers his reasons for going in because he knew about it. There were a few chats about why people would go on what was labelled a suicide mission essentially.
  • Phattso 15 Mar 2018 16:45:32 23,314 posts
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    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    Also, if that was the intention, why those 2? It literally chewed through tens of people over the 3 years, it had an abundance of people to use.
    And on this one... perhaps it took that long to figure out how to do it. When it was figured out (with the dude) the plan was formed to get the dudette.

    Basically: it can all make sense if you think about it. :)
  • sport 15 Mar 2018 16:49:30 14,324 posts
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    Blurp wrote:
    But does it want to infiltrate? Maybe it doesn't want anything and the rebuilding of DNA that's being done all leads to it replicating other stuff. Maybe it's just its nature.
    This is part of what I took away from it. The various connections made to cancer seem to suggest that maybe it isn't a "conscious" entity. It just spreads and duplicates because that's what it does. Even the final stand-off with Portman - it just copies her movements which Portman uses to her advantage. I personally think the alien dies at the end, but NP's DNA is now tainted from being in the shimmer, as is her husband.
  • Waffleaber 15 Mar 2018 17:04:46 697 posts
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    I don't subscribe to the shimmer having a plan, or even a consciousness. It wasn't malicious, it just was. With the cancer theme running through the shimmer is just like a cancerous growth. Cancer isn't malicious, it's just cells doing what they're doing, growing and multiplying, same as the shimmer.

    Of course that means I can't really explain the ending. They mentioned the bear might have had the woman it killed's mind partially imprinted on it through fragmentation, that and the closer they got to the lighthouse the stronger the fragmentation got. Maybe inside the lighthouse Portman and Isaacs got completely fragmented into two like the cells, imprinting on the shimmer a duplicate.

    Then a grenade burnt it all because the phosphorous fragmented throughout the shimmer from the source and that's why Isaacs stabilized?


    I dunno, good film, worth a re-watch.
  • TPReview 15 Mar 2018 17:15:19 1,279 posts
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    I'm definitely of the opinion that the shimmer didn't want anything.
    They say it twice in the film, it's just there, it doesn't have a hive mind or anything like that, it's just a thing. The scientist interviewing her couldn't understand that and that's why she couldn't really answer his questions. He saw it as an enemy, but it wasn't, it was just different.
    I saw the fire destroying it as a part of the refraction. The creature was clearly spreading the fire purposefully, in a similar way to how it might have absorbed dna, it absorbs more than just dna, it was even absorbing the fire and the refraction spread it to everything, burning it all down.
  • JamesUK 15 Mar 2018 17:19:05 696 posts
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    yeah that was my take on the "alien". I didn't think it was an alien being with shimmer technology. I thought it was purely organic, my interpretation was that the "alien" kind of starts out as a single cell and then divides, expands and consumes/absorbs everything it comes into contact with.
    Lena's cheating ties into a common theme of self destruction, it lead to the Kane volunteering for the mission and ultimately the destruction of their marriage.
    At the end Kane and Lena have the opportunity for a fresh start. She could abandon this new version of Kane or attempt to rebuild their relationship.


    One thing I'm not too clear on is the passage of time is different in the shimmer. Kane has been gone for a year and I think Benedict Wong's character says that Lena has been gone for 4 months but she only had supplies for 3 weeks. Shortly after entering the shimmer the group wake up and they've lost a few days. Could they already be clones at that point?, is time refracted?, why the memory loss?.

    Edited by JamesUK at 17:31:46 15-03-2018
  • QotSAfan 15 Mar 2018 17:41:16 2,318 posts
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    Personally, I think that like others have said, the shimmer just is. It is not a sentient agent as such, so I don't believe it planned to send out clones. Besides, both Kane and Lena will be locked up by the military for the rest of their lives. Not much use in that. I do believe that the shimmer has certain properties that explains some things. It is both a prism that refracts everything within it, and a mirror which reflects the innermost desires of characters. It would explain some of the dramatic irony in how the various characters meet their fate.

    Kane goes in to escape his his wife and her affair but loses everything but the thought of her.
    Ventress apparently seeks answers to why she sent those people in but instead gets annihilation to free her from her cancer.
    Cass who seeks a rebirth, gets born in the bear again.
    The junkie who can't trust anyone else, gets killed by her own intuition (mistakes the bear for being Cass despite being told that Cass is dead).
    The physicist who wants to feel alive gets turned into a plant, living but not really sentient.
    And Lena who seeks redemption, and a chance to apologise to her husband is left with a clone who isn't her husband. I believe that the shimmer took on her self destructive nature; it deliberately touches the wall of the lighthouse to set itself alight. She ultimately gets the change she wants but not the results to enjoy it.

    Anyway, my theory is probably full of holes but its the most enjoyable one I have for putting all the pieces together.


    Interesting movie, though I do feel it could have done with being a bit more deliberate in saying something about what it was trying to convey.
  • ChiefGB 15 Mar 2018 19:45:41 8,565 posts
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    sport wrote:
    the final stand-off with Portman - it just copies her movements which Portman uses to her advantage. I personally think the alien dies at the end, but NP's DNA is now tainted from being in the shimmer, as is her husband.
    see, at that point in the lighthouse when she couldn't escape, I just kept thinking all she needed to do was go back to back facing the door and run out and escape. Surely I wasn't the only one?
  • The-Bodybuilder 15 Mar 2018 21:39:18 17,226 posts
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    Phattso wrote:
    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    Also, if that was the intention, why those 2? It literally chewed through tens of people over the 3 years, it had an abundance of people to use.
    And on this one... perhaps it took that long to figure out how to do it. When it was figured out (with the dude) the plan was formed to get the dudette.

    Basically: it can all make sense if you think about it. :)
    Hmmm, seems all rather JJ Abramism "explain it away yourself" theory.
    So it figured it out with the dude, but yet couldn't do it with any of the other guys inbetween the dude to the dudette, even though almost certainly any/all of them had partners, and it's clearly shown it can communicate and get a partner to anywhere anytime, somehow.
  • The-Bodybuilder 15 Mar 2018 21:42:15 17,226 posts
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    Blurp wrote:
    The-Bodybuilder wrote:
    Watched it. Kinda liked it up until it's final quarter....I think.

    I got the Scolaris vibes off of it, which I loved (both the original and the remake that many don't like), but as someone who didn't read the book and reading the explanations on here, I'm not sure if the explanations here have actually worsened the ending for me.

    Like...if the primary purpose was to create a pair of clones to infiltrate our society, seems like a bloody convoluted way of doing it. Why?
    But does it want to infiltrate? Maybe it doesn't want anything and the rebuilding of DNA that's being done all leads to it replicating other stuff. Maybe it's just its nature.
    I would agree to that in the Scolaris sense of "there is no purpose, it just is", but it doesn't quite frame it in the same way Solaris does, which makes goes out of its way to make it clear it's wrestling with the question of "Does a sentient being always need a reason to do something?" This clearly tries to give an impression that it's doing something, but the scientists don't know what.
  • The-Bodybuilder 15 Mar 2018 21:44:19 17,226 posts
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    Frogofdoom wrote:
    The affair also covers his reasons for going in because he knew about it. There were a few chats about why people would go on what was labelled a suicide mission essentially.
    Can't say I buy that at all.
    Remove those scenes and the motivation (like I thought it was before the scene) is that she's his wife and is doing it for love, as a wife would. And he went in because he was a soldier and was ordered to go in, as all soldiers do.

    Imo that reveal did nothing to change the motives of either individual.
  • Mola_Ram 15 Mar 2018 21:46:12 17,972 posts
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    I thought the ending worked in a thematic sense, even if you can argue about what it means in terms of the plot. It was about how relationships break down, and how hard it is to really "know" anyone on a fundamental level.
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