spamdangled wrote:Nominations already announced. Not on this years but it could well be in 2019. |
Black Panther • Page 8
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beastmaster 22,373 posts
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Skirlasvoud 4,039 posts
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Registered 11 years agoControlledChaos wrote:
It's not about kill count. It's about motivation and character. The majority of the people you just mentioned have a "take over the world!" scheme. Killmonger reflects on socio-economic inequalities and is a far more morally grey, interesting villain.
Killmonger is the best MCU villian ever:
No, just seriously he's barely on screen, his plan fails any logical reasoning test, he plays second fiddle to Claw(who was great) for half the film, he doesn't kill anyone of importance, his plan fails. Compare that to Loki, Hela, Zemo, Obidiah Stane, Vulture, even Malekith killed off Freda
ControlledChaos wrote:
It's not a celebration of Africa.
Wakanda and Black Panther is a celebration of Africa:
I don't get it, this is the most American movie in the MCU it feels American to its core, and this is the MCU with a trilogy called Captain America. Some films feel British (Bond, anything with Hugh Grant) this had an American feel to it so strong it reminded me of "Team America" which in a film I was led to believe was about Africa surprised me.
It's an African-American superhero movie. And since most African-Americans live in America, no wonder why you feel it's an American movie. It's how an American idealizes an African country. It still touches base with an important cultural segment within America though. That's why it's significant.
Edited by Skirlasvoud at 13:38:30 27-02-2018 -
The-Bodybuilder 17,871 posts
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Registered 17 years agospamdangled wrote:
Wakanda, Warrior Falls, Phambii, A kIng's Sunset and A New Day are personal faves of mine also.
@The-Bodybuilder I've been listening to it on Spotify since seeing the film. It's the first Score in a very long time that I've really foubd myself able to enjoy in isolation from the film.
Warrior Falls is a great track. -
The-Bodybuilder 17,871 posts
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The-Bodybuilder 17,871 posts
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Registered 17 years ago@ControlledChaos If you're basing why people appreciate Killmonger isn't because of his inherent "evilness" and how many people he kills/how successful his plans are, then you've missed the point as to why people appreciate him.
Because unlike all the classic MCU badguys, he's a bit more nuanced and developed than "herp derp, I'm evil" for his motivations. -
The-Bodybuilder 17,871 posts
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Registered 17 years agoAlso, it's saying something that even T'Chala disagreed with the choices of his father in regards to Erik. His "creation" as a bad guy was due to a wrong choice by the previous king and elders. In the end, Killmonger's desire was something right in that Wakanda should be out there helping the world, but he obviously took it to the worst extremes. -
I shed a manly tear during Killmonger's dream sequence. -
spamdangled 31,803 posts
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Registered 13 years ago@ControlledChaos
No, his plan was to give africans the power to take back control of their destiny and was disgusted that Wakanda had effectively selfishly hoarded their wealth, technology and knowledge for themselves while turning a blind eye to the suffering other africans and people of african heritage still experienced. And his view was a direct result of having been a victim of that himself.
He is, by far, the most nuanced and relatable villain so far in that his motives were well-intentioned - even noble, albeit extreme. It's also a clever little allusion to the Black Panther movement. Killmonger is the political black panther; T'challa is the superhero one.
His outlook is also what finally convinces T'challa that enough is enough and to start doing more to help others.
Edited by spamdangled at 17:28:23 27-02-2018 -
Ryze 3,767 posts
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Registered 15 years agospamdangled wrote:
Fantastic.
Killmonger is the political black panther; T'challa is the superhero one. -
spamdangled 31,803 posts
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Registered 13 years ago@Ryze The Atlantic have a great article examining Killmonger, the Black Panther party, the Void etc.
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/02/black-panther-erik-killmonger/553805/ -
Skirlasvoud 4,039 posts
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Registered 11 years ago@spamdangled
Marvelous read. Thanks for linking that. -
Skirlasvoud 4,039 posts
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Registered 11 years agoThere's two ways of looking at this:
If you're a comic book buff and focus ENTIRELY on the marvel universe and everything within as a bubble... then yeah, there's characters out there who are better at being comic book villains.
If you focus on Killmonger as a movie adaption and how he relates to the world we're living in and the message he has - especially relative to the other movie adaptations - then he's brilliant.
I've googled Zemo real quick and I do not see him ever becoming a relatable movie villain - especially since he comes across to me as an unrepentant nazi - whereas Killmonger has understandable motives.
That's just straight up one-dimensional evil.
It's not about the kill count. If so, Galactus and Phoenix Force have everyone beat. Villains need to be interesting and a reflection on human nature or our condition.
Read Strangelove's article. It explains the fascination with Killmonger.
Edited by Skirlasvoud at 21:57:02 27-02-2018 -
JamboWayOh 25,236 posts
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Registered 8 years agoubergine wrote:
Ha!
Movie Zemo is just some bland guy, which is the point in his case (he's no relation to comics Zemo)
And Killmonger isn't successful? He: escapes poverty to become a successful CIA assassin guy, kills like a thousand people, gathers intelligence on a super-secret foreign country, infiltrates Kaue's gang, successfully identifies a mis-identified Wakandan vibranium weapon at a museum, robs a museum, uses Klaue to draw out Black Panther then rescues Klaue from his custody, kills Klaue and his associates then uses the corpse to gain entry into a country no outsider gets to enter, challenges that county's king to a fight, gets the fight then wins the fight, BECOMES KING OF A COUNTRY he's just entered, gets imbued with super powers, launches an invasion of the entire world
but the invasion gets thwarted and he chooses to die. What a fuckin' loser ay. -
spamdangled 31,803 posts
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Registered 13 years agoControlledChaos wrote:
He is far more fleshed out than Zemo, has more dimensions than Loki, and was dekiberately written as a modern Black Panther Party analogue. His afterlife scene alone fĺeshes him out far more than any other marvel villain. His backstory engenders empathy and makes his motives relatable. His dialogue with T'challa and the council illustrates his anger and his pain.
I've never read a comic, so I don't agree with that, personally I think the opposite is true, maybe if Killmonger was flesh out abit in Black Panther and actually did something in the movie, then I could possibly concider Killmonger more than a punch bag for the final fight but that would require futher reading of comic material
Hell, he fucking wins. T'challa's victory is pyrhhic at best. Killmobger fucking WON, in the sense that T'challa realises that his philosophhy was right, Wakanda needs to help, that Killmonger was horrendously wronged, that they had it coming to them and then some for what they did.
FFS just read the article I linked earlier.
Read some history. You might learn sumfink.
Edited by spamdangled at 00:26:41 28-02-2018
Edited by spamdangled at 00:28:20 28-02-2018
Edited by spamdangled at 00:30:05 28-02-2018 -
This guy basically nails what I've been thinking and saying about Black Panther all along:
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Derblington 35,161 posts
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Registered 17 years agoThat's a really interesting comparison to Ragnarok. I don't like that film as much as most seem to and I thought it pushed in all the wrong directions. -
Skirlasvoud 4,039 posts
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Registered 11 years agoFair enough at this point if you've been reading and are still with us.
Different strokes for different folks and maybe your tastes and interests are simply different. -
Derblington 35,161 posts
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Registered 17 years agoI know opinions and all that but that's a fucked up list.
I'm not sure Killmonger lacks screen time either. I'm not going to time it versus every other film but he gets a significant amount and it's all with purpose, nothing he does is wasted.
I can't understand why bodycount matters? Zemo kills 2 people on-screen, doesn't he? The film quite clearly establishes that Killmonger is lethal and efficient multiple times. His actual bodycount is probably one of the highest in the MCU, and all without superpowers. How many of the other heroes have been left in the state that T'Challa is left in after a fight?
I'm not sure what emotion you're after if you think Killmonger lacks it. -
QotSAfan 2,402 posts
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Registered 14 years agoGot to agree with ControlledChaos, didn't find Killmonger compelling at all. Thought he was pretty bland. His story has all the components to work but I felt the execution was poor. They probably should have cut out Serkis's character. He was a lot more fun with a lot more menance, and I think he overshadowed Killmonger for me. -
spamdangled 31,803 posts
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Registered 13 years agoOpinions, arseholes, etc. But when a superhero film prompts lengthy articles written by historians and political experts then white peoplesaying it's a shallow movie rings alarm bells (spoken as a white person). -
spamdangled wrote:
Couldn't have said it better.
@ControlledChaos
He is, by far, the most nuanced and relatable villain so far in that his motives were well-intentioned - even noble, albeit extreme. It's also a clever little allusion to the Black Panther movement. Killmonger is the political black panther; T'challa is the superhero one.
His outlook is also what finally convinces T'challa that enough is enough and to start doing more to help others.
The very fact in the end, even T'Challa, though disagreeing with the extremity of his methods, ultimately saw the logic in his motivations, and agreed with it, is something that was fundamentally different.
And lol at Vulture being a complex villain, who turns to crime to be rich. Real complex, that one. Next Control will claim Ultron as the most dynamic and complex character in all of Hollywood's history.
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