| I think with a short story you’ve absolutely got to keep detail and exposition to a bare minimum in order to keep it brisk and punchy - I’d argue you got that balance pretty well spot on. |
The Writing Thread (Novels, scripts, screenplays etc.) • Page 4
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BearFishPie 837 posts
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sunjumper 3,548 posts
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Registered 20 years agoI agree that a short story is there for one very specific reason and it has to serve that reason first and foremost.
With Heaven's Bridge I wanted to write a little mood piece about an old king driven mad by grief. A madman bringing back the dead is pretty cliché. What I was wondering about when thinking about it was who that madman was and what would drive him towards it.
Tiny bits of exposition are important to set the scene, but the magic, technology or historical facts are pretty much irrelevant to tell this story, so I tried to stay on track and just follow the character. I think this was a good exercise, as my worldbuilding tends to get out of hand and my character work tends to be my weak spot. -
jrmat 283 posts
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Registered 4 years agoWell I'm up to 20k words into my novel. Am enjoying it but finding it scary. With it being my first draft and first novel I've no idea if I'm including too much or not enough.
I had an opening scenario, a rough idea of characters and setting. They're all introduced now and I'm getting into the middle bit. The middle marathon as I've heard it called.
I've got a sketch of a few lines of how I think it's going to go. Does everyone else plan it out. I'm more going from idea to idea rather than any hardcore planning over several pages. I like exploring and getting to know it as I do it. -
sunjumper 3,548 posts
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Registered 20 years ago@jrmat
You can always show your work in progress here to get some feedback. There are a quite a few fellow EGers who will give solid helpful feedback that will help you not losing your path during first draft.
There are many ways to write a story ranging from just starting to write and see where it gets you to meticulously planning every bit of the novel beforehand until you end up with the skelleton of the story where you just need to fill out the blanks.
You need to find a way that works for you (this doesn't mean the most fun though).
Oh and congratualtions for reaching 20k that is an impressive word count. Good work! -
jrmat 283 posts
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Registered 4 years agoThanks. I would like to try the meticulous planning approach at some point but not right now. I'm trying to write 500 words a day but I'm doing more like half that. But it is moving forwards.
Here's the link to view if anyone wants to have a look and provide feedback. On the last page I've written the outline.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1McGVdC_dV0lkTrDjrMdmluM-J6CyZzB7-zp53x8E3OE/edit?usp=drivesdk -
wobbly_Bob 5,162 posts
Seen 7 months ago
Registered 15 years agojrmat wrote:
Thanks. I would like to try the meticulous planning approach at some point but not right now. I'm trying to write 500 words a day but I'm doing more like half that. But it is moving forwards.
Here's the link to view if anyone wants to have a look and provide feedback. On the last page I've written the outline.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1McGVdC_dV0lkTrDjrMdmluM-J6CyZzB7-zp53x8E3OE/edit?usp=drivesdk
I'll give you my opinion for what it's worth. Disclaimer: I'm no expert nor a published writer or editor. This is just a take from somebody that enjoys writing and reading.
To me there's far too much tell and not show.
I try to write something every day to keep my writing creative juices flowing. Sometimes it's an entire story (rare) but mostly it's just doodling or micro stories. I'll use what I wrote yesterday as way of illustration.
"DAY ONE
It was day one. It was raining. Dully dull eyed she observed as tears of rain threw itself with wet fury against the window pane. Outside the dark trees thrashed in the gusty gale. Every so often there was a bass tone rumble rumble rumble thunder falling like a brutal growl from a dangerous animal. Seconds later. Lighting ripped the air. Crackling light white heat. White hot. Shadows thrown. The room illuminated. Crack. White hot light. Once she would have jumped. Once she would have startled. Once she would have hated the lighting. Once she would have sought eagerly other arms and entwined as branches must about another. Not now. Not today. Not day one.
The coffee was cold. It was more than cold. Frigid. She hadn't made it. They had made it for her on day zero. They came on day zero in blurs as they came and they went with far away voices and touches on shoulders and hands that wanted to hold. And she had thought hold what? What when so hollow can you hold? How do you hold a hollow? One day one they wanted to come again, the blurs, but she didn't want them. No. The rain fell. The thunder thundered wet fury. How is it, she thought, that the world would want to mirror me? No sunny skies for day one? No bright birds calling on day one? Somewhere like a crying child the mournful sound of the telephone pleaded to be picked up and cradled.
She watched the rain falling and from so far away. Dimly aware of her own tears falling down her face and onto her lips. Before day one you would have joked it's only the Gods big feet in the sky. Now you're gone. Gone on day zero with the flashing blue lights and waling sirens. You never came home. Never came back. Day one and it's raining. Day 2 seems a forever away.
"
Writing the way you do it would have gone something like:
"It was raining outside. Sarah sat by the window crying. She felt the passing of David. It was only yesterday that he had died. All she felt was pain at his passing. She felt empty and sick. The ambulance had come yesterday and taken him away. She expected him back but her never returned. Neighbours and friends had offered comfort to her yesterday but it was all just a blur. The phone rang but she didn't feel like answering it because all she was feeling inside was all consuming grief."
You see? Too much tell. Not enough show. There's no emotion or flow or poetry in prose. Writer rule number one! Don't tell. Show.
Remember you can play around with punctuation as I have. The rules can be broken sometimes. you can dictate the pace through longer or shorter sentences and what words you use. Vary the pace. Take your reader on a journey.
There also seems to be a lot of fat that needs cutting out because unless it's moving the plot forward or important to establish character then it shouldn't be there. The thing feels clunky. I would go back and trim it and ask yourself what really has to be there.
Additionally you could work on the protagonist's voice. What makes him who he is? He seems to be quite proud but world weary from what you wrote? Try to bring that out in his speech. It often helps to work up a backstory for each character so you can write in their voices. A reader should know the character speaking just by the way they talk and the words they use.
Well, that's my 2 pence. I hope it's helpful. Keep at it. Try and write every day.
Edited by wobbly_Bob at 13:10:00 11-05-2019 -
jrmat 283 posts
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Registered 4 years ago@wobbly_Bob Thanks for reading and for feeding back. Yes, I appreciate no one's a professional, but I'm happy to take onboard as much as I can. This is very much a first draft, so there will be some superfluous stuff in there and it will be clunky in places. At the moment I'm ok with that, later on I won't be.
Regarding the show vs. tell, yeah, that's something I'm working on and am trying to find the right balance and I think as the story goes along, hopefully it improves, at least in places.
To sum up my characters. The book is written in 3rd person from Davy's perspective only, so we only get to know others from his pov. His Dad has been successful, not massively, but enough to make them comfy middle class. His older sister has done well and is the uptight, driven type. Davy is more laid back and not one for the city life, but is bright, people oriented and has under achieved, not sure of what he wants to do so for now is enjoying what he does and where he is. There's some tension between him and his sister, enough of an age gap to mean they aren't that close but there are reasons for that, they'll come out later. Davy looks up to his Dad, who is closer to his sister in terms of personality, but has mellowed over the years due to his wife, who is more like Davy.
So the book is Davy coming to terms with his mother's death and discovers some sinister undertones which has contributed to his Mum's death. I haven't started on that bit really, just the odd hint so far.
Can I ask a favour wobbly_Bob. Regarding the show vs tell, I would love to get some more specific pointers on this. I've granted comment access, would you mind pointing out a couple of places where I've gone overboard on tell and perhaps give a brief outline of what more show might look like, without taking too much of your time. Apologies if I'm asking too much, but I'd love to develop in this area as I'm finding it tough to get the right balance. -
jrmat 283 posts
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Registered 4 years agoActually, if you'd prefer, feel free to copy and paste into a post, might be easier. I know the work well enough to know where it comes from. -
jrmat 283 posts
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Registered 4 years agoActually, scrap that, I think I know what you mean. -
jrmat 283 posts
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Registered 4 years agoI've made some adjustments to the first couple of pages to make it a bit more showy rather than telly. If you get a chance and wouldn't mind seeing if I'm on the right track that would be great. -
jrmat 283 posts
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Registered 4 years agoI've got an idea that we could try to re-write a first page of a known book. One we can read the first page on Amazon. The point is to choose an 'average' book, i.e. not a classic or super popular book, and then we all have a go at redoing the first page in an effort to make it a bit better or put our stamp on it and then compare what we've all done and share a critique. Any takers?
The idea is to improve our writing skills in a way that's not too demanding of our time in a safe environment. -
BearFishPie 837 posts
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Registered 10 years ago@jrmat What a great idea! Count me in -
sunjumper 3,548 posts
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Registered 20 years ago@jrmat
I agree with BearFishPie, that's agreat idea and we should give it a go. -
TechnoHippy 19,245 posts
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Registered 18 years agoIt would be nice to get back to writing, so that could be a fun exercise. -
macmurphy 4,447 posts
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Registered 14 years ago@jrmat
In -
macmurphy 4,447 posts
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Registered 14 years ago@LynnLittle
Out. -
sunjumper 3,548 posts
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Registered 20 years agoOh and if I may make a suggestion. The book we choose should be by a medicore to horrible writer. I think it is more encouraging to rewrite a page improving it instead of taking a well crafted, edited and polished one and take it to the butcher. -
jrmat 283 posts
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Registered 4 years agoGreat, thanks for the support.
The plan is to choose a book, then give everyone a week(?), then post our efforts, then critique and feedback. People can choose a significant rewrite or a few minor tweaks to whatever you want. As there's a handful of us perhaps we can take it in turns and each week someone different choose another book.
I'll choose a book on the next couple of days. The first one will be a tester to see if this has got legs and after the exercise I'd welcome any ideas to make it better. Also might be worth starting a separate rewrite thread if becomes a regular thing.
See you in a couple of days. -
jrmat 283 posts
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Registered 4 years agosunjumper wrote:
Yep, defo. We want to experiment with ways to make it better and improve our writing rather than making a good book worse.
Oh and if I may make a suggestion. The book we choose should be by a medicore to horrible writer. I think it is more encouraging to rewrite a page improving it instead of taking a well crafted, edited and polished one and take it to the butcher. -
sunjumper 3,548 posts
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Registered 20 years agoI think a one week deadline is pretty good. And more than enough to rewrite one page. And then have one week for feedback. After that we can chose a new page and keep going.
I'm looking forward to doing this. -
jrmat 283 posts
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Registered 4 years agoDetails of the challenge are below. Kindly read the entire post before clicking on the link and making a start. There are a few 'rules' about timing which I think will make a positive difference.
Book
Ok, first challenge. I'm going to choose a Star Trek book, Destiny, by David Mack. For Star Trek fans it's a good book. As far as classic literature is concerned, like many science fiction and franchise tie-in books, it's rather average.
Ignore the prologue, start at the main story, from the heading 2381.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Star-Trek-Destiny-Night-Seekers-ebook/dp/B003YCP9LQ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=gods+of+night&qid=1564256921&s=gateway&sr=8-1
You can get a free sample of the book on Kindle, a free app.
Starting words are "Captain Ezri Dax..." and the end point is "... get out of the wreck's stygian corridors as quickly as possible." About 2 pages on a mobile, just over a page in print.
Timings
The challenge starts now, let's have an ending point for next Saturday, 3rd August. If possible let's try and post the rewrites on the Friday and Saturday to keep all the posts together and then from Sunday start posting feedback and commentary about the choices you made in your rewrite. Then after we're all done with feedback and commentary we can start to think about what to do next.
Other than the start and end point and timings of the post, let's start with as few rules as possible, have fun, look for the positive as well as potential improvements in everyone else's work. -
jrmat 283 posts
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Registered 4 years agohttps://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Star_Trek_Destiny_1_Gods_of_Night.html?id=CpsXaMHtOxYC&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
This might be an easier link to see it if you don't have kindle. -
BearFishPie 837 posts
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Registered 10 years agoI suspect I may have to sit this one out - I’d hoped to get the time but Things are getting in the way unfortunately. -
jrmat 283 posts
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Registered 4 years agoNo problem. Whilst we're reviewing everyone's output next week, if you get time feel free add yours after the deadline, not the end of the world .gif)
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jrmat 283 posts
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Registered 4 years agoWow, the time's gone fast. Here's my effort. Could be quite bit better but am ok with it for a first effort with this sort of thing.
Captain Ezri Dax stood on top of the bow of the Colombia.
I hope, she said to herself, that I'm not making the biggest mistake of my career.
Starfleet couldn't afford any mistakes right now and she knew she was taking a big gamble. If she was wrong the consequences would be catastrophic.
She bit her bottom lip, turned around and looked down at the engineers and science specialists from her crew. They swarmed over the long abandoned warp 5 vessel. It's husk was half interred by the constant shifting of the desert, just as she'd remembered it from her previous visit 7 years earlier. Dax's previous host, Jadzia, had enjoyed the dusty atmosphere, the feel of the sand beneath her feet, but not her, not Ezri. But this wasn't a recreational visit, she had a mission to accomplish.
She brushed her hand across her forehead. It was full of sweat. The heat from both suns in this system were more than sufficient to make the usually cold extremities of joined Trill moist.
Dax saw Lieutenant Gruhn Helkara, her senior science officer on the Starship Aventine, walk up the ramp through the rent of the hull. He had a smile on his face. Dax could count on one hand the number of times she's seen the skinny Zakdorn's droop-ridged face smile.
"Good news Captain. The converter's working. Leishman's powering up the Columbia's computer now. I thought you might want to come down and have a look."
"No thanks Gruhn, I'd prefer to stay topside."
He didn’t ask why and she didn’t say. She’d been down and taken a look 7 years earlier. The experience had made her skin crawl then and the thought of it made her skin crawl now. She’d been sure she’d seen flecks of blue light dance at the edges of her vision.
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TechnoHippy 19,245 posts
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Registered 18 years agoSorry, I seem to have completely lost the ability to write or edit outside of work, so will bow out of the challenge 
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sunjumper 3,548 posts
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Registered 20 years agoTalk about bad timing. The challenge started pretty much with my holidays. But now I'm back and I'll gladly participate from here on out. -
jrmat 283 posts
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Registered 4 years agoIn that case shall we do the same task but just put the timeframes back. So you have until this Sunday to do it.
Any other suggestions that might make it easier, please feel free to shout. -
jrmat wrote:
OK. I finally got some time to read your version and give some feedback. I have not read the original to judge what you have written with a fresh view.
Wow, the time's gone fast. Here's my effort. Could be quite bit better but am ok with it for a first effort with this sort of thing.
Captain Ezri Dax stood on top of the bow of the Colombia.
I hope, she said to herself, that I'm not making the biggest mistake of my career.
Starfleet couldn't afford any mistakes right now and she knew she was taking a big gamble. If she was wrong the consequences would be catastrophic.
She bit her bottom lip, turned around and looked down at the engineers and science specialists from her crew. They swarmed over the long abandoned warp 5 vessel. It's husk was half interred by the constant shifting of the desert, just as she'd remembered it from her previous visit 7 years earlier. Dax's previous host, Jadzia, had enjoyed the dusty atmosphere, the feel of the sand beneath her feet, but not her, not Ezri. But this wasn't a recreational visit, she had a mission to accomplish.
She brushed her hand across her forehead. It was full of sweat. The heat from both suns in this system were more than sufficient to make the usually cold extremities of joined Trill moist.
Dax saw Lieutenant Gruhn Helkara, her senior science officer on the Starship Aventine, walk up the ramp through the rent of the hull. He had a smile on his face. Dax could count on one hand the number of times she's seen the skinny Zakdorn's droop-ridged face smile.
"Good news Captain. The converter's working. Leishman's powering up the Columbia's computer now. I thought you might want to come down and have a look."
"No thanks Gruhn, I'd prefer to stay topside."
He didn’t ask why and she didn’t say. She’d been down and taken a look 7 years earlier. The experience had made her skin crawl then and the thought of it made her skin crawl now. She’d been sure she’d seen flecks of blue light dance at the edges of her vision.
The page is perfectly decent and I believe that most problems that I see arise from the source material. I guess that rewriting a page does contain some interesting challenges.
The main problem I see here is that it is mostly a lore dump pushing as much exposition out as it can get away with. Rewriting this is quite the challenge. And the focus keeps shifting from Ezri in the present to Jadzia in the past. This makes the story hard to follow and I as a reader get a lot of info with very little to care about.
The stakes and the problems should come first and from there one can start to roll out the rest of the scene. Also I would consider dumping half of the exposition to make the scene itself work better.
One quick fix I can see is changing the very opening.
"I hope this isn't the biggest mistake in my carrer..." Captain Ezri Dax thought bitting her lower lip. "...or my entire life."
That way the reader knows the stakes at hand instantly and you can start to unroll the scene around the protagonist so that we can see what this mistake might actually be.
Another random though is that one might need to read a bit further than page one to rewrite it properly, because I would put the stakes at hand front and centre here which is a bit difficult to do if the original author did not mention them for the first few pages.
Looking forward to the new challenge tomorrow.
P.S. I somehow missed your last post and the extension. I will have a closer look at this thread from today on.
Edited by sunjumper at 21:13:15 11-08-2019
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