Checking to see if anyone has advice on Computer Freezing • Non-Gaming • PC Hardware • Eurogamer.net

Skirlasvoud 21 Apr 2018 12:02:12 4,039 posts
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Hello everyone,

Hard to pinpoint the problem and my desktop is probably just due an upgrade, but I have a problem and I'm hoping anyone here has any advice.

Especially when I'm browsing the web, my computer has a small chance of just completely freezing. Happens maybe once a day, so it's extremely sporadic and not worth taking to a workshop for. The sound stops, the screen freezes and the PC no longer reacts. Occasionally the computer lagged too, with nothing reacting but with the mouse working, but it would snap out of it after a minute and return. These freezes however, can only be cured by a hard reset.
I've never or rarely had this happen when I'm doing something intensive, like playing a game.
It also sometimes happens when I plug in my USB drive, but I don't know if its related.

My OS is windows 10.
I've already bought a brand new Hard Drive and reinstalled Windows 10, but much to my dismay, the system still occasionally freezes on a fresh install and another Hard Drive. I think the lag is gone now, but it's too hard to tell. Again, the freezes aren't gone.

I've had problems with the Hard Drive wiring before, but I've recently replaced them and in my experience, the symptoms of that would've been different (like BSOD or problems loading)

I've replaced my power supply unit not a year ago with one more powerful than is recommended by the most demanding component: the GPU.

The GTX 970 is about 2 years old.

The rest of my desktop is far older. An Asrock 990FX Extreme3 motherboard, AMD FX-8350 CPU, 2x8 gigs of RAM in an old case. These are maybe 5 years old.

I think I'm about to take out the RAM one by one to see if it fixes it.

Then I'll replace the case.

If that doesn't work, I'll take the step towards replacing the Motherboard and the CPU.

Anyone here have any better advice? I'd love to hear it.

Edited by Skirlasvoud at 12:14:00 21-04-2018

Deleted user 21 April 2018 12:26:12

Unplug any HDD's other than the one the OS is on and any USB devices other than those you absolutely need and see if that makes any difference.

Also download the latest drivers for the motherboard from the manufacturers website for chipset, lan, USB,etc. If you already have the latest try an older one. Same for the other components.

Edit: I'm assuming not since you would have mentioned it but if you have any overclocks in place remove those too. Also after it happens again check the windows event viewer for errors, it may have something to help narrow it down.

Edited by Spectral at 12:38:57 21-04-2018

simpleexplodingmaybe 21 Apr 2018 12:34:46 19,992 posts
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My laptop got a DPC watchdog violation following a regulation windows update. I know I need to restore back to before the update took place but the error triggers on the post-update start up screen where its got the percentage ticking up between boot and login screens and attempting to boot in safe mode didn't help

so many point and click adventure games left unfinished following my mini-obsession a couple of months ago

Deleted user 21 April 2018 12:42:11

simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
My laptop got a DPC watchdog violation following a regulation windows update. I know I need to restore back to before the update took place but the error triggers on the post-update start up screen where its got the percentage ticking up between boot and login screens and attempting to boot in safe mode didn't help

so many point and click adventure games left unfinished following my mini-obsession a couple of months ago

You could boot using a windows dvd/bootable USB and selecting the repair option. Or a lot of times after a number of windows crashes/failed boots windows brings up a repair option on its own.

It's reasons like this I do a full disk image backup at least once a week.

Edited by Spectral at 12:47:18 21-04-2018

Skirlasvoud 21 Apr 2018 13:35:13 4,039 posts
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Spectral wrote:
Unplug any HDD's other than the one the OS is on and any USB devices other than those you absolutely need and see if that makes any difference.

Also download the latest drivers for the motherboard from the manufacturers website for chipset, lan, USB,etc. If you already have the latest try an older one. Same for the other components.

Edit: I'm assuming not since you would have mentioned it but if you have any overclocks in place remove those too. Also after it happens again check the windows event viewer for errors, it may have something to help narrow it down.

Cheers!

I've updated my BIOS a while back and they stopped handing out updates for this old bird. Just checked and it's still up-to-date. Version 1.9

I've unplugged all superfluous USB devices to wait and see. Now it's just a waiting game.

Sadly, I have no idea how to handle the drivers for the motherboard or chipset. It's as if Asrock doesn't hand them out anymore. The package that I have access to is just a bunch of superfluous bullocks that's at least 2 years old.

Do I have good reason to question the drivers that Windows 10 itself installed? Also, this hardware has run fine for 8 months prior before the freezes happened. Unless you say so, I'm not sure if this is the problem...
I checked the version that Windows 10 installed in device manager and they appear the latest. Newer than whatever I can download from Asrock.

Are there even drivers for the USB system? When I try to download some, they advice me not to unless I'm a developer.

Yes! I never overclock my system. I prefer durability over performance.

Wasn't even aware of the Event Viewer! Interesting... Clearly you know you're stuff!

It doesn't appear that the system was aware of what happened though. It was already down on its ass before it could register anything. The system error messages simply state that there was an unexpected shutdown and that it was upset about it when I booted up again.

There are other regular errors, but I'm not sure if they're related.

I'll see what unplugging the USB devices did. I've also tried different ports.

Thanks for the input! If nothing else, I'm now more tech savvy. I'll keep a close eye on the event viewer.

Edited by Skirlasvoud at 13:36:36 21-04-2018

Skirlasvoud 21 Apr 2018 13:48:37 4,039 posts
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Just managed to stumble into drivers for my old motherboard... but if I install them, they don't play nice with Windows 10.

Driver management has been a mess ever since Windows 10. I hope I can simply trust this OS to install the right drivers. When I do it, there's conflicts, so I won't bother with USB/chipset/ethernet.

I really should replace this motherboard. If Asrock can't bother supporting it, then neither should I. At least the BIOS is up-to-date.

Edited by Skirlasvoud at 13:49:51 21-04-2018

Deleted user 21 April 2018 13:48:44

Windows isn't always great at correctly identifying what exactly the hardware is. Also its possible the proper drivers have things changed in them for the specific board.

One thing with windows you could try with regard to drivers. Open device manager and for all the items under usb controllers, system devices and storage controllers, right click each entry and select update driver and then check online for drivers. It sometimes doesn't properly detect the exact one for the hardware until you force it too look and instead uses a more generic one.

Also even if the Asrock drivers are old if there are some for the version of windows you are using they could still be worth trying. Older doesn't always mean bad. You can always get rid of them if they cause a problem.

Edited by Spectral at 13:50:59 21-04-2018

Skirlasvoud 21 Apr 2018 13:51:08 4,039 posts
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Will do Spectral!

Regardless of Success, thanks for all the help and knowledge!

Deleted user 21 April 2018 13:57:38

I just looked on the site and there is a driver download available for win 10 64-bit for that motherboard.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/990FX%20Extreme3/#Download

Assuming you have win 10 64-bit The top one is a package with all the AMD chipset drivers and the second one is the drivers for the onboard audio. You can ignore the rest.

It's entirely possible the problem isn't driver related at all. However since it persisted from one install of windows to another its likely drivers or a hardware fault somewhere, which is where having as little connected to the PC as possible helps rule things out.

A bit of a long shot but assuming you haven't done any manual tweaking of the BIOS that you would find annoying to redo you could try going in there and selecting reset to default, just in case something has somehow screwed up with its settings.

It can be so annoying to nail down these kind of random errors. I had a similar problem once and that turned out to be a sata power extension cable. No visible damage but it was causing the SSD to randomly lose power.

Edited by Spectral at 14:08:38 21-04-2018

BigOrkWaaagh 21 Apr 2018 14:49:40 10,554 posts
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I have a laptop with a GTX 870 and it freezes unless I turn off VSync and set power management to max in the nVidia control panel. With a more recent update I got to the point where I was able to select ' let the application decide' which was nice. If I load up the control panel and leave it on the spinning eye logo it just crashes in a few seconds.

Deleted user 21 April 2018 14:55:36

memtest86+ to find bad ram

Skirlasvoud 21 Apr 2018 14:58:12 4,039 posts
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@Spectral

Again, thanks for all the aid. I've installed the package (with more than half of it failing to install) and we'll just have to hope from here. If nothing, I've gained quite a bit of knowledge. ;-)

And yeah, random errors suck. I'm a scientist myself, using scientific principle. I'd rather have a catastrophic failure that I'm able to reproduce easily, then having a small problem whose origins eludes me.

@BigOrkWaaagh

Worth experimenting with!

With all these measures, I can at least reasonably eliminate driver problems and start plucking at the hardware with a clear conscious should the problem persist.

Skirlasvoud 21 Apr 2018 15:00:03 4,039 posts
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null wrote:
memtest86+ to find bad ram

Yup! Good idea. I already ran a CPU + RAM torture test a month ago in the form of Prime95 software. It's worth adding memtest for good measure.

Deleted user 21 April 2018 15:25:23

Skirlasvoud wrote:

null wrote:
memtest86+ to find bad ram
Yup! Good idea. I already ran a CPU + RAM torture test a month ago in the form of Prime95 software. It's worth adding memtest for good measure.

Bear in mind for memtest it needs running for a long time to rule out ram issues. Most people leave it going overnight. Thats assuming it doesn't start throwing errors up sooner.

Skirlasvoud 21 Apr 2018 16:35:36 4,039 posts
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@Spectral

Granted, I was closing the lid on my Desktop while Memtest was running, but what does it mean if MemTest itself freezes up while testing? Surely the computer should be able to handle the minimum of manipulation while running?

I'd say that hardware failure is becoming more and more likely. Surely an error during MemTest can't result in the computer freezing? IF the memory was bad, than the program would report it... not Freeze. Because it's a bootable, that'd also exclude everything wrong with Windows.

How do I interpret this?

Edited by Skirlasvoud at 16:39:46 21-04-2018

Deleted user 21 April 2018 16:59:07

Skirlasvoud wrote:
@Spectral

Granted, I was closing the lid on my Desktop while Memtest was running, but what does it mean if MemTest itself freezes up while testing? Surely the computer should be able to handle the minimum of manipulation while running?

I'd say that hardware failure is becoming more and more likely. Surely an error during MemTest can't result in the computer freezing? IF the memory was bad, than the program would report it... not Freeze. Because it's a bootable, that'd also exclude everything wrong with Windows.

How do I interpret this?

Well as well as testing the ram it also uses at least a little to keep itself just running, like any other program. Alternatively the problem isn't with the RAM but elsewhere and whatever it was crashed memtest. But considering by design the only thing under stress there is the RAM it is definitely a top contender atm. Try removing one of sticks and trying again. If it happens again take that out and put the other back in. If it happens again after that try other RAM slots in case one of the slots has failed. If you have any spare it could be worth just swapping out sata cable to the HDD with another one just in case its something as simple as a dodgy cable.

It's been quite a while since I used memtest, did it run in windows out outside it at startup?

Edited by Spectral at 17:01:13 21-04-2018

Skirlasvoud 21 Apr 2018 17:18:32 4,039 posts
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There's several options for MemTest, but I chose to create the bootable version from USB drive. This does mean windows had nothing to do with it, but I might have touched the HDD cable while closing the lid?

I'll pick up a spare SATA cable for the HDD. It's the cheapest test I can do.

I'll give Memtest a night and will report results tomorrow if there's still anyone reading. I have half a mind to simply replace the motherboard, ram and the CPU. They are 5 years old after all.

Thanks again!

BigOrkWaaagh 21 Apr 2018 17:25:23 10,554 posts
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If you booted from USB the HDD won't even come into it, you could unplug it completely if you wanted to while running memtest.

Deleted user 21 April 2018 17:32:05

BigOrkWaaagh wrote:
If you booted from USB the HDD won't even come into it, you could unplug it completely if you wanted to while running memtest.

That's a good idea. The fewer things you have connected and still have it crash the more things you rule out as the cause.

Since it was from a bootable USB you are right that you can rule out anything in windows, so its hardware related. Does the motherboard have integrated graphics? If you ran memtest with the HDD not connected and the graphics card removed it would narrow it down to motherboard, memory, CPU or power supply.

Dirtbox 21 Apr 2018 19:47:21 92,595 posts
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I'd tell you what it is, but you have me on ignore, so enjoy your computer as it slowly deteriorates.

Fake_Blood 21 Apr 2018 20:18:26 11,093 posts
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If you get no bsod, the thing just turns off it means one of your power rails is dropping. My guess is the mobo or the psu, even if it�s relatively new.

I�m mainly going on you mentioning it happens when you plug in a usb hdd. Them platters pull a lot of current spinning up.

BigOrkWaaagh 21 Apr 2018 20:57:39 10,554 posts
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Dirtbox wrote:
You stink of piss.

Decks has a message for you.

Fake_Blood 21 Apr 2018 21:09:05 11,093 posts
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also if it's freezing you should warm it up

Rogueywon 21 Apr 2018 21:44:16 12,387 posts
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@Fake_Blood A power issue was my first thought as well. Had something similar in the dying days of my previous PC. Sadly, it turned out to be mobo-side, rather than PSU side.