How is this NOT sexual harrassment? Page 3

  • IMO 5 Jul 2018 13:07:06 7,020 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    Because if a woman comes up and randomly kisses you, it's gross and annoying.

    If a man randomly kisses a girl, the girl gets worried that it's going to lead to a sexual assault.

    I know that's incredibly reductive but men generally don't live with the constant fear that they are going to be raped by a stranger.
    Ultimately, should the main issue not be the assault itself? Whilst I agree that the harm done differs and can do so significantly, I find the notion that it somehow should affect how seriously the incident is regarded a bit problematic.
  • nickthegun 5 Jul 2018 13:10:52 78,493 posts
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    Obviously, but point is that an equivalence was being drawn not that we shouldn't take it seriously.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 5 Jul 2018 13:36:56 16,703 posts
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    ozthegweat wrote:
    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    ozthegweat wrote:
    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    But the 'harm' done is debatably very different, if not on an individual level, then a societal one.
    Why?
    Because of existing societal inequalities.
    Could you elaborate? Do you mean that kissing a woman is continuing and normalizing the way society has been treating women, while kissing a man is something unusual that doesn't lead to or is part of systematic sexism against men?
    I mean that objectification and sexual assault of women is a far bigger and more deeply ingrained issue than that of men.

    An off the top analogy, it's like hitting someone on the head with a hammer who hasn't been hit before, versus someone who's been hit several times. The person who's been hit several times is more likely to end up dead.
  • ZuluHero 5 Jul 2018 13:39:17 7,528 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    Because if a woman comes up and randomly kisses you, it's gross and annoying.

    If a man randomly kisses a girl, the girl gets worried that it's going to lead to a sexual assault.

    I know that's incredibly reductive but men generally don't live with the constant fear that they are going to be raped by a stranger.
  • nudistpete 5 Jul 2018 13:43:48 860 posts
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    I hate it when people do all kinds of ker-ay-zee mental gymnastics over stuff like this. It's quite easy to define whether something like this is assault:

    If the person feels like it was an assault, then it is one. If they didn't feel like it was an assault, then it's not.

    Case closed, problem solved.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 5 Jul 2018 13:55:14 16,703 posts
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    nudistpete wrote:
    I hate it when people do all kinds of ker-ay-zee mental gymnastics over stuff like this. It's quite easy to define whether something like this is assault:

    If the person feels like it was an assault, then it is one. If they didn't feel like it was an assault, then it's not.

    Case closed, problem solved.
    So fucking people who are passed out and will never know is good then.

    You can reduce this to a simple condition, but that condition is consent before the act, not approval afterwards.

    Edited by You-can-call-me-kal at 13:55:31 05-07-2018
  • Carlo 5 Jul 2018 14:00:57 20,586 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    nudistpete wrote:
    I hate it when people do all kinds of ker-ay-zee mental gymnastics over stuff like this. It's quite easy to define whether something like this is assault:

    If the person feels like it was an assault, then it is one. If they didn't feel like it was an assault, then it's not.

    Case closed, problem solved.
    So fucking people who are passed out and will never know is good then.

    You can reduce this to a simple condition, but that condition is consent before the act, not approval afterwards.
    So do I need to ask permission before I shake someone's hand, pat them on the back for doing well, hugging them when they're sad, kissing someone in a moment of excitement, breaking into someone's house to give them a foot-rub.

    I feel a line does need to be drawn, no doubt, but that line is the same regardless of your gender, and their gender.
  • nudistpete 5 Jul 2018 14:05:26 860 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    So fucking people who are passed out and will never know is good then.
    Yeah, that's exactly what I wrote... :rolleyes:

    Edited by nudistpete at 14:10:53 05-07-2018
  • DJCopa 5 Jul 2018 14:11:18 2,006 posts
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    nudistpete wrote:
    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    So fucking people who are passed out and will never know is good then.
    Yeah, that's exactly what I wrote... What a douche.
    No, but "If the person feels like it was an assault, then it is one. If they didn't feel like it was an assault, then it's not." puts the onus on someone being assaulted and waiting to hear if they were OK with it.

    If they were, cool, I can then do the same act on someone else.
  • quadfather 5 Jul 2018 14:11:23 34,880 posts
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    I might become a reporter. Sounds fucking ace.
  • Deleted user 5 July 2018 14:14:07
    I'm sure Kal is a MrTom sock.
  • Load_2.0 5 Jul 2018 14:18:06 29,744 posts
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    Oops wrong thread.

    Edited by Load_2.0 at 14:22:54 05-07-2018
  • nudistpete 5 Jul 2018 14:18:20 860 posts
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    DJCopa wrote:
    No, but "If the person feels like it was an assault, then it is one. If they didn't feel like it was an assault, then it's not." puts the onus on someone being assaulted and waiting to hear if they were OK with it.
    It clearly doesn't, people should always ask for consent. However you can't say that everything done without consent is automatically assault, either.
  • Mola_Ram 5 Jul 2018 14:20:02 21,192 posts
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    It is sexual harassment, and is not cool. But not all sexual harassment is equal, and this looks pretty minor compared to the shit that women have to put up with. The end.

    EDIT: Right, so that's what a bunch of other people have already said. Carry on then!

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 14:20:58 05-07-2018
  • DJCopa 5 Jul 2018 14:23:44 2,006 posts
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    nudistpete wrote:
    DJCopa wrote:
    No, but "If the person feels like it was an assault, then it is one. If they didn't feel like it was an assault, then it's not." puts the onus on someone being assaulted and waiting to hear if they were OK with it.
    It clearly doesn't, people should always ask for consent. However, you can't say that everything done without consent is automatically assault, either.
    Of course, but think we should all be able to say that if you go up to a stranger and kiss them, pat their bum or similar it is most likely unwarranted behaviour and can be classed as assault.

    To be clear, I'm not suggesting this isn't what you meant - It's a gam,ing forum and meanings get lost, etc.
  • Load_2.0 5 Jul 2018 14:26:11 29,744 posts
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    You can't let assault be defined by the individual. That's madness.

    You could argue that they way someone looked at you or shook your hand too long is a form of assault. Maybe it's putting a hand on your shoulder.

    It leads to a very clinical and unhealthy environment.
  • Graxlar_v3 5 Jul 2018 14:39:36 7,659 posts
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    Carlo wrote:
    So do I need to ask permission before I shake someone's hand, pat them on the back for doing well , hugging them when they're sad, kissing someone in a moment of excitement, breaking into someone's house to give them a foot-rub.
    .
    WTF... never ever ever do this, ever.

    Also,shaking someones hand needs consent in that they will be shaking your hand too. Hugging someone when they are sad, you should prob offer a hug not just assume they want one. the other two are fine.
  • Fake_Blood 5 Jul 2018 14:42:36 9,659 posts
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    In sovjet russia, woman assault you.
  • minky-kong 5 Jul 2018 14:44:35 14,354 posts
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    Graxlar_v3 wrote:
    Carlo wrote:
    So do I need to ask permission before I shake someone's hand, pat them on the back for doing well , hugging them when they're sad, kissing someone in a moment of excitement, breaking into someone's house to give them a foot-rub.
    .
    WTF... never ever ever do this, ever.

  • You-can-call-me-kal 5 Jul 2018 15:01:41 16,703 posts
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    nudistpete wrote:
    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    So fucking people who are passed out and will never know is good then.
    Yeah, that's exactly what I wrote... :rolleyes:
    It's not what you wrote, but it's a logical extension of what you wrote.

    You douche.
  • nudistpete 5 Jul 2018 15:08:27 860 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    It's not what you wrote, but it's a logical extension of what you wrote.
    Douche logic, maybe :)
  • drhickman1983 5 Jul 2018 15:22:36 6,027 posts
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    Carlo wrote:
    So do I need to ask permission before I shake someone's hand, pat them on the back for doing well, hugging them when they're sad, kissing someone in a moment of excitement, breaking into someone's house to give them a foot-rub.

    I feel a line does need to be drawn, no doubt, but that line is the same regardless of your gender, and their gender.
    A handshake is normally something offered, and you can easily refuse it. You'd come across as rude, but it's easy to dismiss an offered handshake.

    The other actions are largely dependent on a pre-existing relationship with that person. I'd feel pretty pissed off if some random tool hugged me because I looked sad. And I'd be quite pertubed if somebody kissed me in a moment of excitement.
  • Carlo 5 Jul 2018 15:28:31 20,586 posts
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    drhickman1983 wrote:
    Carlo wrote:
    So do I need to ask permission before I shake someone's hand, pat them on the back for doing well, hugging them when they're sad, kissing someone in a moment of excitement, breaking into someone's house to give them a foot-rub.

    I feel a line does need to be drawn, no doubt, but that line is the same regardless of your gender, and their gender.
    A handshake is normally something offered, and you can easily refuse it. You'd come across as rude, but it's easy to dismiss an offered handshake.

    The other actions are largely dependent on a pre-existing relationship with that person. I'd feel pretty pissed off if some random tool hugged me because I looked sad. And I'd be quite pertubed if somebody kissed me in a moment of excitement.
    It was meant to present a sort of sliding scale from "completely innocent" to "OK that's too far!", to re-enforce the later point that wherever the line is on this scale, the line needs to be the same regardless of gender.

    Edited by Carlo at 15:28:43 05-07-2018
  • fontgeeksogood 5 Jul 2018 15:30:49 6,737 posts
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    What about yawn raping? I must admit I am often a serial offender, how bad is that on the scale?
  • Deleted user 5 July 2018 15:35:48
    It's not sexual harassment when your laughing.

    I bet the korean journo took those two russian bints home and gave them a bit of his rock hard Kim Chi sausage.

    Geonbae!
  • Carlo 5 Jul 2018 16:16:52 20,586 posts
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    RandolphCarter wrote:
    Is it rape if you lie in order to obtain sex? Not paying a prostitute after the act: rape or theft?
    I don't think you can change your mind after sex, and then say it's assault. Right up to,and during sure, but not after.

    Otherwise, how can you ever be sure you have consent?
  • chopsen 5 Jul 2018 16:20:10 20,529 posts
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    RandolphCarter wrote:
    the penis accidently slipping into the anus during vaginal sex
    Stealth "my wife has a massive arsehole" post,
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