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Because kneeling at the national anthem peacefully when most people in the stadium are on their phones and chatting to each other is a massive crime. But no he's disrespecting the troops and hates America... Ffs. Edited by JamboWayOh at 18:22:30 04-09-2018 |
The "well, that's a bit wrong now, when you really think about it" film thread • Page 13
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JamboWayOh 25,238 posts
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Tonka 31,980 posts
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Registered 18 years agomacmurphy wrote:
So not exactly where he wants then? But you are missing the point. He's protesting. Not trying to maintain the status quo.
He can protest where he wants, maybe just not at work though, eh?
I personally find it weird that kneeling is disrespectful btw. But that is also besides the point -
macmurphy 4,448 posts
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Registered 14 years agoJamboWayOh wrote:
Here's what I think. First up I think Colin Kaepernick is a very brave and principled man. He's basically given up an easy life for something he believes in.
Because kneeling at the national anthem peacefully when most people in the stadium are on their phones and chatting to each other is a massive crime. But no disrespecting the troops and hates America... Ffs.
But here's what else I think. I'm not convinced that a means of protest that alienates and angers other people is necessarily the best way to protest. this is America. The land of flags on porches, the pledge of allegiance and a huge passion for all things military. And you can make jokes about people talking and chatting but there are also people in the audience that are going to have lost love ones and have been handed flags at funerals. They equate the flag with the anthem, they take comfort in the fact their relative died for an ideal and people not standing will always hurt them because it feels like an attack on that ideal. I'm not saying they're right, but I'm saying that's how some people view the anthem.
You can still think black lives matter and not think that taking a knee is the right thing. People always seem to set the two in opposition.
I'd also say it's a football game. FIFA does similar and tries to ban protests and political messages. They maybe realise that people have come for a day out. They've paid money and they might not want to be exposed to a political bunfight.
And this is what it comes down to. I'm a pragmatist. He's at work. If the NFL thinks it's bad for business they can just not extend contracts. I absolutely think Kaepernick has a right to protest, but I don't think he gets to do it on company time. -
macmurphy 4,448 posts
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Registered 14 years agoLike I said people seem to think if you don't support him you don't support black people.
I think of it as I don't support his right to piss off a load of paying customers at his place of work. -
fontgeeksogood 12,913 posts
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Registered 3 years agoSo, others like you made it so he couldn't do that at a place of work.
We can argue about this all we want but ultimately this peaceful protest got people talking about things. And now Nike will lose their white pensioner demographics -
macmurphy wrote:
So people should act against their principles if they're paid?
He can protest where he wants, maybe just not at work though, eh? -
macmurphy 4,448 posts
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Registered 14 years ago@fontgeeksogood
Others like me? Try not to make it personal.
But also 52% of Americans think it's wrong. What about them? Do they not get a say? Or they just have to take it?
I think 20% of black people think take a knee is wrong. What about them? I don't understand where you blindly support a guy whose actions make other people unhappy.
Can you not understand people that think he's doing the right thing but going the wrong way about it? -
Tonka 31,980 posts
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Registered 18 years agowhy is this man disrespecting a woman on the beach?
Just to illustrate how the entire narrative had been hijacked and distorted. -
macmurphy 4,448 posts
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Registered 14 years ago@DrStrangelove
Seriously? -
You-can-call-me-kal 23,013 posts
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Registered 15 years agoI do love the idea that protests shouldn't be intrusive or disruptive. It's such a ridiculous lens to put on some of the most important protests of the past.
Ghandi should have done the salt march on his own bloody time!
The Suffragettes were just rude muscling in on the Presidential inauguration and should have waited until it was over!
That Buddhist monk that burned himself to death in the street should have waited until after rush hour - just inconsiderate!
That guy in Tiananmen Square should have realised that tank had places to be. What a bastard!
I dunno, it's almost as if the public platform is somehow crucial to getting the message out there, and the civil rights issue being addressed is more important than the thing being disrupted. -
JamboWayOh 25,238 posts
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Registered 8 years agomacmurphy wrote:
Concerning families with loved ones in the armed forces he and others explained what his protest was about and that it was not an attack on the flag or the troops. That message has been twisted and regurgitated en massed and you're now repeating it. Also the fact that race is a massive thing in America just talking about it alienates and angers people.
JamboWayOh wrote:
Here's what I think. First up I think Colin Kaepernick is a very brave and principled man. He's basically given up an easy life for something he believes in.
Because kneeling at the national anthem peacefully when most people in the stadium are on their phones and chatting to each other is a massive crime. But no disrespecting the troops and hates America... Ffs.
But here's what else I think. I'm not convinced that a means of protest that alienates and angers other people is necessarily the best way to protest. this is America. The land of flags on porches, the pledge of allegiance and a huge passion for all things military. And you can make jokes about people talking and chatting but there are also people in the audience that are going to have lost love ones and have been handed flags at funerals. They equate the flag with the anthem, they take comfort in the fact their relative died for an ideal and people not standing will always hurt them because it feels like an attack on that ideal. I'm not saying they're right, but I'm saying that's how some people view the anthem.
You can still think black lives matter and not think that taking a knee is the right thing. People always seem to set the two in opposition.
I'd also say it's a football game. FIFA does similar and tries to ban protests and political messages. They maybe realise that people have come for a day out. They've paid money and they might not want to be exposed to a political bunfight.
And this is what it comes down to. I'm a pragmatist. He's at work. If the NFL thinks it's bad for business they can just not extend contracts. I absolutely think Kaepernick has a right to protest, but I don't think he gets to do it on company time.
Edited by JamboWayOh at 18:28:49 04-09-2018 -
macmurphy 4,448 posts
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Registered 14 years ago@JamboWayOh
So you're basically saying people have to see his message only through the prism of his own explanation and they can't see it any other way? Really? -
Tonka 31,980 posts
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Registered 18 years agoLook at this motherfucker disrespecting a queen. No wonder she had her sword out
https://i.imgur.com/ELAUJvl.jpg -
macmurphy 4,448 posts
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Registered 14 years ago@You-can-call-me-kal
Good effort. Turn up on queue and be a stroker.
Absolutely false equivalencies.
He gets that platform because he's a paid entertainer - in essence. He's kept on a platform by paying customers. If they don't want him on that platform, is it not their right to not have him on there? Or he just keeps getting paid and cracking on regardless even though he's upsetting the majority of the client base? -
JamboWayOh 25,238 posts
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Registered 8 years ago@macmurphy
Not sure where I said they can't see any other way but it would be weird if he just knelt and didn't say why he was doing it. Besides it not as if he was actually burning or pissing on the flag. -
macmurphy wrote:
I understand your point, and those people may be hurt, but they don't have the authority on what flag and anthem mean and in what way they should be respected. If someone's lost a relative in the Falklands War and finds comfort and meaning in upholding the Union Flag, that's all well but that doesn't mean the Jack has always to be revered by everyone only so nobody gets hurt.
But here's what else I think. I'm not convinced that a means of protest that alienates and angers other people is necessarily the best way to protest. this is America. The land of flags on porches, the pledge of allegiance and a huge passion for all things military. And you can make jokes about people talking and chatting but there are also people in the audience that are going to have lost love ones and have been handed flags at funerals. They equate the flag with the anthem, they take comfort in the fact their relative died for an ideal and people not standing will always hurt them because it feels like an attack on that ideal. I'm not saying they're right, but I'm saying that's how some people view the anthem. -
macmurphy wrote:
?
@DrStrangelove
Seriously? -
JamboWayOh 25,238 posts
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Registered 8 years agomacmurphy wrote:
It's no coincidence that a majority of that base only care because an orange cunt rallied his troops about it.
@You-can-call-me-kal
Good effort. Turn up on queue and be a stroker.
Absolutely false equivalencies.
He gets that platform because he's a paid entertainer - in essence. He's kept on a platform by paying customers. If they don't want him on that platform, is it not their right to not have him on there? Or he just keeps getting paid and cracking on regardless even though he's upsetting the majority of the client base? -
challenge_hanukkah 14,403 posts
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Registered 8 years agomacmurphy wrote:
This is Randolph, yeah?
@JamboWayOh
So you're basically saying people have to see his message only through the prism of his own explanation and they can't see it any other way? Really? -
macmurphy 4,448 posts
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Registered 14 years agoI give up lads. I can never win against you guys. I'd rather just keep it to films and games.
It always scares me slightly that you seem to see no validity in any argument that doesn't support your carefully nurtured worldview.
Like I said, the majority of the American public are against take a knee, including 20 percent of black people. But you basically don't give two fucks and you don't even want to address why they might think that way.
I find that genuinely confusing.
Edited by macmurphy at 18:37:47 04-09-2018 -
challenge_hanukkah 14,403 posts
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Registered 8 years agoI'll happily admit that more than 20% of the population of the UK are cunts and not only should they have their opinions disregarded, but be sterilised with a rusty teaspoon too.
Edited by challenge_hanukkah at 18:38:57 04-09-2018 -
JamboWayOh 25,238 posts
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Registered 8 years agomacmurphy wrote:
It's not about winning, I just don't subscribe to your thoughts on how to protest. We disagree with each others worldview doesn't make us any of right.
I give up lads. I can never win against you guys. I'd rather just keep it to films and games.
It always scares me slightly that you seem to see no validity in any argument that doesn't support your carefully nurtured worldview.
Like I said, the majority of the American public are against take a knee, including 20 percent of black people. But you basically don't give two fucks and you don't even want to address why they might think that way.
I find that genuinely confusing. -
Tonka 31,980 posts
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Registered 18 years agomacmurphy wrote:
Can't the NFL fire him? It's he on a tenure or something? I honestly don't know how the NFL works or who he's playing for but surely he can get the boot.
.
He gets that platform because he's a paid entertainer - in essence. He's kept on a platform by paying customers. If they don't want him on that platform, is it not their right to not have him on there? Or he just keeps getting paid and cracking on regardless even though he's upsetting the majority of the client base? -
You-can-call-me-kal 23,013 posts
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Registered 15 years agomacmurphy wrote:
But he's been taken off that platform for what he's done. And sure, you can argue the NFL has every right to do that and perhaps they do. But we should still recognise that he's used that platform while he could for an incredibly important cause, and sacrificed his career to do so.
@You-can-call-me-kal
Good effort. Turn up on queue and be a stroker.
Absolutely false equivalencies.
He gets that platform because he's a paid entertainer - in essence. He's kept on a platform by paying customers. If they don't want him on that platform, is it not their right to not have him on there? Or he just keeps getting paid and cracking on regardless even though he's upsetting the majority of the client base?
And your response to that is what? That it's disrespectful? He's made a huge sacrifice for the good of millions of people. That's why the other activists are not false equivalencies. They did the same thing, and Kaepernick will be remembered in similar terms in years to come. -
StarchildHypocrethes 33,974 posts
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Registered 17 years agoI'm genuinely staggered anyone that doesn't just have an issue with them there coloreds getting above their station has any problem with his protest at all. -
Tonka 31,980 posts
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Registered 18 years agoI'm also genuinely wondering if there's any other case where kneeling is considered disrespectful rather than respectful? -
macmurphy wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, this is not about winning or losing. I do see your points, I just disagree with them and am trying to discuss it. No matter if you think kneeling down is a good way of protest or not, if someone's got principles I expect them to uphold them.
I give up lads. I can never win against you guys. I'd rather just keep it to films and games.
It always scares me slightly that you seem to see no validity in any argument that doesn't support your carefully nurtured worldview.
Like I said, the majority of the American public are against take a knee, including 20 percent of black people. But you basically don't give two fucks and you don't even want to address why they might think that way.
I find that genuinely confusing.
If they act against their principles because it's their job, or if they act against their principles only because an (alleged) majority disapproves, they're not principles. If people truly believe in something, I expect them to act accordingly even if it pisses off other people or has consequences for their career.
edit: and I think if you want to protest but you don't because they pay you for behaving... that's pretty sad.
Edited by DrStrangelove at 18:57:29 04-09-2018 -
nickthegun 87,712 posts
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Registered 16 years agoIt would be interesting to see it go to it's extreme conclusion. You push and disrespect black athletes enough, see what your sports look like when they don't play for a few weeks.
SHUT UP AND DRIBBLE
Yeah? I can't see many more Larry Birds around here so shut your wordhole -
Frogofdoom 17,974 posts
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Registered 9 years agoYou also have to remember a lot of those 52 percent couldn't give a flying fuck about black people being shot and would be quite happy to see them back as being slaves. -
Frogofdoom wrote:
There is that. Plus I would believe that a fair few also think that black people need to be grateful for what they have so they should keep their mouths shut.
You also have to remember a lot of those 52 percent couldn't give a flying fuck about black people being shot and would be quite happy to see them back as being slaves.
Edited by JamboWayOh at 19:06:59 04-09-2018
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