The Woke AF Thread Page 53

  • Technoishmatt 1 Sep 2019 14:22:02 3,512 posts
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    There isnt one type of case here. You've definitely got grade A misogynists like Trump and Weinstein who use their position to take advantage.

    But reading the EG article, it also sounds like Holowka had been abused himself and knew he had issues. It is very sad that he never got out of the cycle of abuse, and ultimately couldn't handle it.
  • el_pollo_diablo 1 Sep 2019 15:04:48 2,968 posts
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    Didnít Jon Robsonís write a book all about this kind of trial by court of public opinion? Has anyone read it?
  • its-H1ggyLTD 1 Sep 2019 15:14:54 93 posts
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    Yeah it's good.
  • its-H1ggyLTD 1 Sep 2019 15:15:54 93 posts
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    Would recommend any of his audio books as his reading of them is brilliant.
  • JamboWayOh 1 Sep 2019 15:40:52 14,721 posts
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    el_pollo_diablo wrote:
    Didnít Jon Robsonís write a book all about this kind of trial by court of public opinion? Has anyone read it?
    Yeah it's good, 'So You've Been Publicly Shamed' is the title I believe.
  • ZuluHero 1 Sep 2019 15:46:02 7,533 posts
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    Really tragic end to everyone involved. I don't know what Zoe was hoping for, but this isn't going to end well for her either.

    Always strikes me as odd when I see these allegations coming out decades after the events, where memories have faded or altered over time and evidence is completely lost, but can see the argument that people can be afraid to say anything.

    People can change too, there have been a few things I've done in my past that I'm ashamed of that I wouldn't dream of doing now, and I'm sure the same can be said of many people.

    Not sure the media have helped in this situation either, being quite incindairy with some of their their reporting. Probably for the best EG closed their comments section.

    Terrible news and a terrible turn of events.
  • mothercruncher 1 Sep 2019 18:41:37 16,474 posts
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    We all pre-ordered Aliens: Colonial Marines too Zulu.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 1 Sep 2019 18:45:34 10,911 posts
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    el_pollo_diablo wrote:
    Didnít Jon Robsonís write a book all about this kind of trial by court of public opinion? Has anyone read it?
    Everyone on social media should read So You've Been Publicly Shamed or at least listen to the BBC Sounds version
  • Mola_Ram 2 Sep 2019 07:46:02 21,246 posts
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    The problem with Jon Ronson's book is that, if I remember correctly - and I might not, because I read it like 4 years ago - it mostly focuses on "shaming" episodes where the person being shamed hasn't directly hurt anyone else. I remember it spending a bit of time on that PR woman who lost her job for making an AIDS joke on Twitter, and it's fairly easy to make a case that the massive pile-on was disproportionate (though what exactly you do about that is an open question).

    But it's a bit different imo when it comes to abuse. I don't think anyone, for example, would argue that dogpiling Harvey Weinstein was uncalled for, but plenty of that happened even before his case went to court. Which is not to say that this is on the same level, just that it's a bit more complicated than saying "witch hunts are bad, mmmkay".
  • Mola_Ram 2 Sep 2019 07:47:20 21,246 posts
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    The Ronson book is still great, btw. It's a valuable point of view, I don't think its lessons are universally applicable.
  • nickthegun 2 Sep 2019 08:16:06 78,544 posts
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    It is quite interesting. The AIDS woman is now something like head of PR for match.com and Tinder and Ive seen a few people react to that like one stupid joke should have prevented her from ever working again.
  • Mola_Ram 2 Sep 2019 08:17:59 21,246 posts
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    I remember some TV show tracking where her plane was and counting down the minutes until it landed. It was unreal.

    Also, the other thing the book mentions is the whole "right to be forgotten" business. I am 100% in favour of that, at least for the "make tasteless joke" level of offence.

    Edited by Mola_Ram at 08:20:43 02-09-2019
  • fontgeeksogood 2 Sep 2019 08:21:03 6,762 posts
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    Justine Sacco. Match.com is part of the same group she was fired from.

    It already feels like a long time ago in social networking. I doubt her joke would even raise eyebrows nowadays
  • el_pollo_diablo 2 Sep 2019 11:15:57 2,968 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    el_pollo_diablo wrote:
    Didnít Jon Robsonís write a book all about this kind of trial by court of public opinion? Has anyone read it?
    Everyone on social media should read So You've Been Publicly Shamed or at least listen to the BBC Sounds version
    Listened to the first three episodes this morning. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction!
  • HairyArse 2 Sep 2019 11:48:15 1,283 posts
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    I spent most of this thread wondering what the fuck red pliers were.
  • Graxlar_v3 2 Sep 2019 11:50:03 7,716 posts
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    @HairyArse The are white pillars that were painted red,
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 2 Sep 2019 13:38:24 10,911 posts
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    The radio version addresses some of the issues and updates on the original hardback that I read.
  • hedben2013 3 Sep 2019 15:38:41 1,185 posts
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    Incredible, fascinating, disturbing read from Scott Benson (of Night In The Woods) about Alec Holowka

    https://medium.com/@bombsfall/alec-2618dc1e23e
  • hedben2013 3 Sep 2019 15:51:48 1,185 posts
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    Slightly off topic, but the tweet linking to that article does something I've never seen or noticed before- all of the nice, positive, "sorry this happened to you/thank you for sharing" tweets are viewable by scrolling down... then I get to a section that says "Show more replies" and must be clicked to continue... and that's where all the nasty "You're victim-blaming/Zoe is a scammer" tweets are.

    Is the Twitter algorithm actually doing something positive??
  • Mr_Sleep 3 Sep 2019 17:01:43 22,776 posts
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    hedben2013 wrote:
    Slightly off topic, but the tweet linking to that article does something I've never seen or noticed before- all of the nice, positive, "sorry this happened to you/thank you for sharing" tweets are viewable by scrolling down... then I get to a section that says "Show more replies" and must be clicked to continue... and that's where all the nasty "You're victim-blaming/Zoe is a scammer" tweets are.

    Is the Twitter algorithm actually doing something positive??
    Jack Dorsey said they were implementing something like that in his interviews, maybe it has finally happened.
  • Malek86 3 Sep 2019 17:38:12 8,755 posts
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    I haven't seen a lot of noise since the guy's death. I was expecting more people to speak up. I'm not sure if the news has effectively curbed the movement in its infancy, or if a lot of people are still unwilling to speak out in fear of career repercussions.

    There's also the fact that indie developers have nowhere near as much public presence as Hollywood personalities. So maybe it was naive to think that the movement could gain as much traction as #MeToo.

    Edited by Malek86 at 17:38:22 03-09-2019
  • Kay 4 Sep 2019 15:42:45 20,157 posts
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    hedben2013 wrote:
    Incredible, fascinating, disturbing read from Scott Benson (of Night In The Woods) about Alec Holowka

    https://medium.com/@bombsfall/alec-2618dc1e23e
    Wow. Tbh I was expecting it to be a piece that mainly sympathised with Alec, one that celebrated his life and talked about the positive relationship the writer had with him, whilst also acknowledging that he also had a lot of mental problems. But it paints a picture of someone much, much worse than even all the recent allegations had suggested.

    It also, in a way, indicates that the whole MeToo thing doesn't necessarily have to be about sexism or sexual abuse. All the idiots that have blamed his victims for his suicide (which, it seems, was exactly what he wanted) need to read this.
  • Load_2.0 4 Sep 2019 16:42:04 29,765 posts
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    The guy who wrote that sounds like an arse. In fact everyone involved seems completely unbearable.

    Every party seems to have some serious mental health problems. I'm not sure what blaming a guy who committed suicide achieves.
  • challenge_hanukkah 4 Sep 2019 16:54:17 11,135 posts
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    I couldn't get through that. A self-obsessed dickbag talking about another self-obsessed dickbag.

    Edited by challenge_hanukkah at 17:09:38 04-09-2019
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 4 Sep 2019 16:54:44 20,717 posts
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    I'm starting the "Everyone is a Cunt" movement if you're interested in joining.
  • hedben2013 4 Sep 2019 17:11:53 1,185 posts
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    Meh, I didn't read it that way at all. Sounds like he was caught up in the cycle of abuse centred around this guy and took a while to realise it, with interesting reflections on how the process of acknowledging and coming to terms with it when it's between male work colleagues is different than when it's between sexual partners. And it's totally valid that he can only tell his own story, not those of the other people who've come forward- does that make him self obsessed?
  • challenge_hanukkah 4 Sep 2019 17:14:38 11,135 posts
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    It was egregious emotional masturbation.
  • Tonka 5 Sep 2019 07:23:19 29,767 posts
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    Nicholas Negroponte is unwoke AF. Spectacular
  • Load_2.0 5 Sep 2019 07:54:32 29,765 posts
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    If that's how we proceed you could unwind every pension fund, bank account, bond and savings account that directly benefits from the production of munitions that maim and kill children, or research chemical weapons, or support deforestation or directly contribute to the pollution of the planet.

    I plan to engage in weekly flagellation to atone for the landmine that blew off Abimbola's legs so I could get my 1.25% interest.

    Was it an error to be so tone deaf? Of course. However Epstein managed billions. His money is in hundreds or thousands of institutions.

    So unless those institutions are planning to unwind decades of financing they are equally guilty.

    But that's the world we live in, where people weep and wail in the audience with grief and demand public shaming rather than face the reality of their own culpability.

    Edited by Load_2.0 at 07:58:13 05-09-2019
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