Following The Woke AF Thread Page 271

  • Your-Mother 22 Jul 2021 11:20:32 8,011 posts
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    I think it’s fair to say Liam Neeson survived his encounter with cancel culture and is now living happily off sleepwalking his way through performances in Netflix Originals
  • Mola_Ram 22 Jul 2021 11:28:22 26,050 posts
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    I remember Benedict Cumberbatch getting in trouble for using the term "coloured people" (or something like that) in an interview. And the way it went was

    Other people: Hey man, you shouldn't use that term, and here is why *gives explanation*

    Benedict: Oh shit, I didn't know that! Thanks for telling me, I'm sorry for saying that, and I'll be more careful in future about this kind of thing

    Other people: Ok cool, as you were

    I'm paraphrasing, but iirc that's basically how it went. And it was kind of nice to have something that didn't blow up into culture war.
  • drhickman1983 22 Jul 2021 11:31:37 7,762 posts
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    Your-Mother wrote:
    I think it’s fair to say Liam Neeson survived his encounter with cancel culture and is now living happily off sleepwalking his way through performances in Netflix Originals
    After seeing Ice Road or whatever it was called i think he'd have been better off being cancelled
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 22 Jul 2021 11:34:24 19,679 posts
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    Your-Mother wrote:
    I think it’s fair to say Liam Neeson survived his encounter with cancel culture and is now living happily off sleepwalking his way through performances in Netflix Originals
    I think him saying he wanted to go full Taken on literally any black person like a year ago is worse than someone (hopefully) regretting an “edgy” joke they told twenty years back.

    I suppose intent and atonement are key.

    I’m a big Henry Rollins fan but there’s no way he’d get away with a lot of the jokes in his spoken word shows and books from the 90s and early 00s but having followed him for 25 years I genuinely don’t think it’d cross his mind to make them anymore anyway. Its all about learning and growing.

    Same rewatching Anthony Bourdain’s back catalogue at the moment, its not just enforced wokeness from CNNs editors but a genuine evolution over the years.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 22 Jul 2021 11:36:11 19,679 posts
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    Mola_Ram wrote:
    I remember Benedict Cumberbatch getting in trouble for using the term "coloured people" (or something like that) in an interview. And the way it went was

    Other people: Hey man, you shouldn't use that term, and here is why *gives explanation*

    Benedict: Oh shit, I didn't know that! Thanks for telling me, I'm sorry for saying that, and I'll be more careful in future about this kind of thing

    Other people: Ok cool, as you were

    I'm paraphrasing, but iirc that's basically how it went. And it was kind of nice to have something that didn't blow up into culture war.
    Good for him.

    I really liked seeing interviews with Freeman when he made Black Panther and he was like “this must how it feels to be a black actor on the set of all other movies, I get it now”
  • drhickman1983 22 Jul 2021 11:44:09 7,762 posts
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    That Benedict Cumberbatch example is a good model of how people should be called out, not just piled into, and how individuals should take onboard what they've done wrong.

    Sometimes the calling out doesn't allow opportunity to respond, and people who double down or offer non-apologies ("I'm sorry if you were offended...") can do one
  • nickthegun 22 Jul 2021 11:46:16 87,508 posts
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    Many moons ago, our history teacher kept using the word 'coloured' and a black student asked her to stop using it. She, obviously, kept saying it so the girl stood up and shouted 'Im not fucking coloured, Im black! Youre white, im black. Im not coloured in white!' so our teacher decided to call *her* racist and booted her out of the class.

    To our schools credit, they backed the girl. I dunno whether the teacher refused to stop saying it or refused to teach that girl but she switched year groups and we never had her again.

    Anyway, thats probably the first time I realised it wasnt cool because that girl flipped her fucking lid over it.
  • Wayne 22 Jul 2021 12:24:40 3,942 posts
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    /bites lip
  • Decks 22 Jul 2021 12:26:40 30,846 posts
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    Just say whatever it is you want to say Wayne, I don't think anyone can think any less of you at this point.
  • Wayne 22 Jul 2021 12:30:37 3,942 posts
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    Ok, so... why is:

    Coloured people = bad
    People of colour = good

    ???

    It's giving me People's Front Of Judea / Judean People's Front vibes*

    *Monty Python reference for any kids that my not get it.
  • Nazo 22 Jul 2021 12:36:00 1,902 posts
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    I think PoC is an Americanism isn't it? Seems daft to me but they're a bit backward over there.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 22 Jul 2021 12:36:33 19,679 posts
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    @Wayne I assume there’s more to it than this but my very loose understanding is that coloured was imposed upon them by white people and became entangled with terms of racist abuse.

    But POC came from black academia and being able to self-define grants agency and personhood to an individual in a way an imposed term doesn’t.

    (I might be wrong though)
  • creepiest-lizard 22 Jul 2021 12:52:35 2,868 posts
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    Well, i would guess that Coloured implies that White is the default colour of human beings and every other colour is either a n abberration or perversion of that and therefore inferior. It implies that other races can only exist in relation to white people existing.

    Edited by creepiest-lizard at 12:53:07 22-07-2021
  • nickthegun 22 Jul 2021 12:54:25 87,508 posts
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    Wayne wrote:
    Ok, so... why is:

    Coloured people = bad
    People of colour = good

    ???

    It's giving me People's Front Of Judea / Judean People's Front vibes*

    *Monty Python reference for any kids that my not get it.
    The point, really, is that it doesnt matter, Wayne. In the example I gave a black person asked for a tiny behaviour adjustment and didnt get it. It didnt make any difference to that teacher what she called black people but she persisted.

    Kind of like deadnaming someone. If someone asks to be called one thing and not the other, it doesnt matter why they were asking. The only reason you wouldnt comply or even question that is if you are an arsehole.
  • JYM60 22 Jul 2021 12:59:24 19,036 posts
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    They've taken it for themselves. It's like two fingers up to the racists that called people coloured. A bit like how queer is now empowering. Probably.
  • harriselhoff 22 Jul 2021 13:00:36 464 posts
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    Yeah, the reason really doesn’t matter. They didn’t want to be called coloured, end of story.

    If I say I don’t want to be called Matty, no one asks me why, they just say ok.
  • Nexus_6 22 Jul 2021 13:07:36 6,140 posts
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    no they don't, MATTY
  • harriselhoff 22 Jul 2021 13:10:37 464 posts
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    Nexus_6 wrote:
    no they don't, MATTY
    Honestly, I did have one person who insisted on calling me Matty, he was obsessed with nicknames. He came up with his own nickname for himself. Juicy Joycey.
  • Wayne 22 Jul 2021 13:35:46 3,942 posts
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    @nickthegun Yeah, I fully appreciate that.

    My point about CP/PoC was more of a side note.
  • Vortex808 22 Jul 2021 13:39:15 15,495 posts
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    harriselhoff wrote:
    Nexus_6 wrote:
    no they don't, MATTY
    Honestly, I did have one person who insisted on calling me Matty, he was obsessed with nicknames. He came up with his own nickname for himself. Juicy Joycey.
    They sound like a twat.

    A sopping wet one. Why do people even try to create their own nicknames? That's not how it works.
  • Wayne 22 Jul 2021 13:41:14 3,942 posts
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    It's 2021 Vorty, if people want to adopt their own nicknames they should be empowered to do so. Don't be such a nickname fascist!
  • RGeefe 22 Jul 2021 13:51:08 2,335 posts
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    If I recall Liam Neeson was asked about revenge and his story was that he grew up in Northern Ireland during the troubles, where the idea of revenge was very specific and common. He then related a story about how a friend of his was raped somewhere in the 90s and he wanted revenge - in any form - so he asked her about them. Specifically - "what colour were they?" She said black and he just wanted a fight.

    I don't have a link but I do think there was a massive pile on with him. I believe he was trying to make the point that revenge is quite ugly and irrational.



    On topic - I think a guy making a joke 25 years ago about Holocaust puppets doesn't warrant an immediate sacking but it's through the prism of the Olympic organisers being absolute twats, as a group. It's not showing Japan in the most progressive light.
  • JamboWayOh 22 Jul 2021 14:00:33 24,959 posts
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    Lukus wrote:
    Whilst generally I think you should try and look for context with things like this, given how different trends in humour were twenty years ago, when you're prominently involved in the biggest sporting event in the world, it's probably fair enough if the organisation that employs you makes a swift cull like that to protect their brand.
    Yeah, this. It's weird how some people are forgetting he's working for a private entity that are trying to promote the image of inclusiveness. Whatever your thoughts are on about the statute of limitations of 'cancel culture' and it being a horrendously crass joke the fact remains when you put yourself out there being in an important role of such an event this kind of shit will not fly.
  • JamboWayOh 22 Jul 2021 14:06:59 24,959 posts
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    Nazo wrote:
    I think PoC is an Americanism isn't it? Seems daft to me but they're a bit backward over there.
    For my own personal reference when someone calls me coloured or when I had the misfortune to be in a queue for airport security check and an old couple in front of me made conversation and brought up the phrase 'coloured chap' it grated because it gives you the feeling of being an 'other' and you become aware that you're different from or lesser than these other people i.e. white people. I didn't say anything to them just nodded and they kind stopped when I gave a grimace.
  • Psiloc 22 Jul 2021 14:13:37 6,345 posts
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    Wayne wrote:
    Ok, so... why is:

    Coloured people = bad
    People of colour = good

    ???
    As a non-PoC I'd argue that it may not actually be possible to understand how it feels to be a PoC and be called these things. I suppose you could spend a long time researching the history and minutiae behind the origins of the words but nobody is expecting this of you. Just be polite and use whatever phrasing makes people comfortable
  • Load_2.0 22 Jul 2021 14:26:31 33,520 posts
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    I know Black is the new Black but it's got quite a harsh vibe to it. I mean I refer to my fellow Caucasians informally as Honkies and Crackers but there's definitely a bit of hesitation it in a discussion. POC is also a bit problematic.

    Given the vast range of cultural and racial variations I can see why people might get pissed at being stuck under a catchall term.

    I know Maori and Pacific islanders would be fucked off if you referred to them as black.
  • Load_2.0 22 Jul 2021 14:30:24 33,520 posts
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    Post deleted
  • Load_2.0 22 Jul 2021 14:32:23 33,520 posts
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    Wayne wrote:

    Coloured people = bad
    People of colour = good

    ???
    Coloured has associations with slavery and apartheid in SA and pre 70's America.
  • Nazo 22 Jul 2021 14:32:26 1,902 posts
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    JamboWayOh wrote:
    Nazo wrote:
    I think PoC is an Americanism isn't it? Seems daft to me but they're a bit backward over there.
    For my own personal reference when someone calls me coloured or when I had the misfortune to be in a queue for airport security check and an old couple in front of me made conversation and brought up the phrase 'coloured chap' it grated because it gives you the feeling of being an 'other' and you become aware that you're different from or lesser than these other people i.e. white people. I didn't say anything to them just nodded and they kind stopped when I gave a grimace.
    Reminds me of this short Arthur C. Clark piece we read at school. I remember being surprised by the ending and also realizing that my surprise said a lot about my perspective.
  • Your-Mother 22 Jul 2021 14:41:08 8,011 posts
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    On the Coloured/People of Colour thing, also worth highlighting that, usually, “Coloured” = Black, “People of Colour” = multiracial. The former has its roots in historical slavery. The latter has its roots in anti-systemic racism solidarity.
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