Following UK Politics Thread Page 440

  • You-can-call-me-kal 9 Nov 2019 10:24:10 17,917 posts
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    Surely someone with no knowledge of Merchant of Venice or European financial dynamics of the 1700s, is unlikely to throw around derogatory associations with them?

    Again, not knowing who Shylock is, is very different to correctly using it in an antisemitic context and then claiming it was an accident.
  • AaronTurner 9 Nov 2019 10:26:59 11,426 posts
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    mothercruncher wrote:
    I don’t (think, rarely discuss religion) I know any Jewish people in real life and have been an atheist since I was a kid with resultant disinterest in the various theologies. Don’t use Facebook or twitter, don’t mix in any circles where this specific prejudice occurs etc and consider I had a very average education in a fairly crap school and yet I know how offensive “Shylock” is and have a rough grasp of the Rothschild conspiracies, it’s seeped in somehow.

    Come on- you’re a bright guy Aaron, I think you’ve a general point about us being too quick to label sometimes but you’re being a little disingenuous here.
    Nope, I'm being genuine. I knew about the money tropes but I didn't know anything a Rothschild until fairly recently and Shylock until yesterday. Maybe I just haven't been exposed to it, perhaps that is rare I don't know.

    I mean I think about the things we used to call a Chinese takeaway or the local corner shop as kids without any idea we were being racist, that stuff does cross into adulthood pretty easily I'd say.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 9 Nov 2019 10:28:38 17,917 posts
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    You’re just repeating the same false equivalency as the Hansen thing.

    It is the link between a word and a behaviour that is racist.
  • JamboWayOh 9 Nov 2019 10:33:28 15,740 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    mothercruncher wrote:
    I don’t (think, rarely discuss religion) I know any Jewish people in real life and have been an atheist since I was a kid with resultant disinterest in the various theologies. Don’t use Facebook or twitter, don’t mix in any circles where this specific prejudice occurs etc and consider I had a very average education in a fairly crap school and yet I know how offensive “Shylock” is and have a rough grasp of the Rothschild conspiracies, it’s seeped in somehow.

    Come on- you’re a bright guy Aaron, I think you’ve a general point about us being too quick to label sometimes but you’re being a little disingenuous here.
    Nope, I'm being genuine. I knew about the money tropes but I didn't know anything a Rothschild until fairly recently and Shylock until yesterday. Maybe I just haven't been exposed to it, perhaps that is rare I don't know.

    I mean I think about the things we used to call a Chinese takeaway or the local corner shop as kids without any idea we were being racist, that stuff does cross into adulthood pretty easily I'd say.
    I disagree that it crosses into adulthood easily without any self reflection or knowledge of what you're saying is inherently wrong. Sure as a kid it's probably something you hear and repeat, but as an adult, that moves into area where ignorance is not a legitimate defence and you surely know the meanings of what you say.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 9 Nov 2019 10:37:44 17,917 posts
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    To be fair to the guy he’s reflected on his behaviour and recognised it. You can’t really say fairer than that. I personally strongly suspect he was instructed by the party to do so to minimise the damage, but again, I reserve the right to think the worst at this point.

    More concerning is the continuing trend of people with these views being drawn to the Labour Party, combined with the Party’s inability to recognise them in their vetting process, which again, all points to Institutional Racism.

    Edited by You-can-call-me-kal at 10:38:18 09-11-2019
  • You-can-call-me-kal 9 Nov 2019 10:42:37 17,917 posts
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    Anyway, Brexit Party candidate plays in a Nazi themed metal band.

    https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/2019/11/08/exposed-brexit-party-candidates-nazi-inspired-band/
  • You-can-call-me-kal 9 Nov 2019 10:59:15 17,917 posts
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    Nobody wondering if he accidentally fetishises Nazis? No?
  • d_h1234 9 Nov 2019 11:04:38 201 posts
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    The band’s page on Encyclopedia Metallum states “Stuka Squadron is not an “NS” [National Socialist] band and shares no affiliation or beliefs with the white supremacy movement”.
    Well that settles it.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 9 Nov 2019 11:04:52 17,917 posts
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    Shad Cab and close Corbyn ally likes to sing “Hey Jews” and call people “poofs” (probably accidentally).

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/labour-dan-carden-hey-jews-hey-jude
  • Load_2.0 9 Nov 2019 11:07:47 30,156 posts
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    I'm positive there's hundreds maybe thousands of Nazi memorabilia hoarders in the UK. A lot of them being old white blokes who like to dress up as Gestapo or Hitler and get whipped by their elderly wives in the basement.

    This country is absolutely obsessed with WW2.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 9 Nov 2019 11:25:12 11,368 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    Anyway, Brexit Party candidate plays in a Nazi themed metal band.

    https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/2019/11/08/exposed-brexit-party-candidates-nazi-inspired-band/
    He probably didn't know about the associations that imagery has.

    Bloody Thatcher
  • AaronTurner 9 Nov 2019 11:30:35 11,426 posts
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    I mean I've watched horror movies with nazi zombies and nazi orgies, there are loads of video games with nazi zombies in them. Seeing a band dressed like that, my first thought wouldn't be that they are all right wing nazi bastards.
  • ResidentKnievel 9 Nov 2019 11:32:06 7,327 posts
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    Cripes
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 9 Nov 2019 11:39:56 11,368 posts
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    Done
  • JamboWayOh 9 Nov 2019 11:41:35 15,740 posts
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    Ha. He's the equivalent of the meme dog in the burning house.
  • challenge_hanukkah 9 Nov 2019 11:50:24 11,621 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    I mean I've watched horror movies with nazi zombies and nazi orgies, there are loads of video games with nazi zombies in them. Seeing a band dressed like that, my first thought wouldn't be that they are all right wing nazi bastards.
    You..you're doing a bit here, right?
  • AaronTurner 9 Nov 2019 11:51:12 11,426 posts
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    I don't feel bad about not thinking the worst of everyone. I've mixed in the metal genre long enough to see a load of bollocks and not think anything of it.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 9 Nov 2019 11:56:26 17,917 posts
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    Do you feel bad about constantly showing more empathy with those accused of racism than those that are victims of it?
  • AaronTurner 9 Nov 2019 12:02:19 11,426 posts
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    My feeling is that there is a clique of very woke people here that can't get their head around the fact that other people might not think the same way they do. Just like with Brexit where anyone that dares post that they voted leave is roundly ridiculed rather than conversed with. The above post with the Jews Jews jews and poof thing, I mean how can you form any kind of opinion on those people without knowing the context of what was likely a private conversation?

    I don't empathise with people who are genuine racists for what they do, but so much of the stuff posted here I think is just ordinary people making mistakes. Take what you will from that.

    Edited by AaronTurner at 12:02:58 09-11-2019
  • its-H1ggyLTD 9 Nov 2019 12:07:29 546 posts
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    Do you feel bad about constantly asking people how they feel about things?

    Edited by its-H1ggyLTD at 12:07:59 09-11-2019
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 9 Nov 2019 12:07:53 11,368 posts
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    Racist statements don't just "accidentally" slip out unless there is something unsaid in the head that says them which already has a place for those attitudes and language


    If you're accused of antisemitism you don't accidentally and innocently start rewriting Beatles songs while pissed up. You're laughing in the face of victims because you either don't believe them, don't believe their victimhood counts, or something worse.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 9 Nov 2019 12:26:00 17,917 posts
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    AaronTurner wrote:
    My feeling is that there is a clique of very woke people here that can't get their head around the fact that other people might not think the same way they do. Just like with Brexit where anyone that dares post that they voted leave is roundly ridiculed rather than conversed with. The above post with the Jews Jews jews and poof thing, I mean how can you form any kind of opinion on those people without knowing the context of what was likely a private conversation?

    I don't empathise with people who are genuine racists for what they do, but so much of the stuff posted here I think is just ordinary people making mistakes. Take what you will from that.
    Again, as with every single post you make on this subject you show greater sympathy and empathy for those accused than those affected. You look for the best in those who have done racist things (always misunderstood, unfortunate, misrepresented) but when it comes to those affected they’re cynically motivated, incapable of understanding other people’s points of view, too “woke”.

    It is again a very strange mindset that always seeks to see the best in potential perpetrators of racism, and the worst in the victims of it.
  • its-H1ggyLTD 9 Nov 2019 12:55:41 546 posts
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    It looks a little odd that a poster typically so scrutinising of sources...particularly those used by other posters..would dive head first into an ex-Guido source.

    But if we're going with right-wing shit-bag sources, here's another one:


    @DPJHodges
    I'm no fan of Dan Carden. But I was told about the bus chant story soon after the incident was supposed to have happened and checked with a number of people who were on the bus. No-one corroborated it.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 9 Nov 2019 13:05:07 17,917 posts
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    That was quite artfully done. Delegitimising the source in order to some legitimise you sharing right wing tweets. The enemy of your enemy right?

    Others are saying they were on the bus and it’s true.

    https://twitter.com/gabrielmilland/status/1193131813344043016?s=21

    If it didn’t happen then obviously that’s rank (it’s a slightly odd story to make up) but if it did the source of the story is moot really.
  • Frogofdoom 9 Nov 2019 13:10:22 14,620 posts
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    Meanwhile in the conservative party

    https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1193097665283801088?s=19

    Cant we just have a revolution
  • its-H1ggyLTD 9 Nov 2019 13:12:03 546 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    If it didn’t happen then obviously that’s rank (it’s a slightly odd story to make up) but if it did the source of the story is moot really.
    Indeed.

    Why is it only coming out now?
  • TheSaint 9 Nov 2019 13:13:23 18,943 posts
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    Interesting thread:

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1193142217344475138?s=20
  • You-can-call-me-kal 9 Nov 2019 13:16:49 17,917 posts
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    its-H1ggyLTD wrote:
    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    If it didn’t happen then obviously that’s rank (it’s a slightly odd story to make up) but if it did the source of the story is moot really.
    Indeed.

    Why is it only coming out now?
    They were obviously saving it for when it has most impact. Which you can either see as the media having an agenda, or the media making sure it can’t be buried.
  • TheSaint 9 Nov 2019 13:21:53 18,943 posts
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    How long before Aaron pops up to claim that he just didn't know the actual words to Hey Jude?
  • AaronTurner 9 Nov 2019 13:33:10 11,426 posts
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    TheSaint wrote:
    How long before Aaron pops up to claim that he just didn't know the actual words to Hey Jude?
    You'll be waiting a while. I said how I feel about things, but I'm not bothered by a clique on a computer games forum. This thread is full of people reinforcing their own beliefs and slapping each other's backs, but very few are actually accepting any other views.
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