UK Politics Thread Page 616

  • mothercruncher 14 Jan 2020 23:14:39 16,955 posts
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    I found it genuinely terrifying, it was like driving in Italy, only worse. Because I was in Swindon whilst cars appeared from every angle and not Italy.
    Iím sure itís great for the locals!
  • grey_matters 15 Jan 2020 00:02:36 4,933 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    mothercruncher wrote:
    Maybe she lost her marbles on Swindonís magic roundabout.
    Itís actually amazing how well it works

    I... never realised. Surely it could never...



    Huh.




    I...





    Huh.
  • Lukus 15 Jan 2020 00:03:18 22,545 posts
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    I like the little yellow car they've snuck in there.
  • mattproton 15 Jan 2020 00:08:50 55 posts
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    @nickthegun It's funny with social media, some peoples language is subtly implying the world is listening.. It's a pretty common delusion in schizophrenia that you're the centre of the universe and everybody is listening, so it's pretty funny that software and culture can make this illness actually happen.
  • Youthist 15 Jan 2020 12:03:25 13,994 posts
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    One for all you Tories and "bojo" fans out there to try to defend:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-51117457

    What an absolute cunt of human. Still - he has floppy hair and cracks jokes, the cheeky little scamp.

    Edited by Youthist at 12:03:42 15-01-2020
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 15 Jan 2020 12:03:49 7,407 posts
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    So the FlyBe thing did end up with some kind of rescue deal, likely to involve reductions in Air Passenger Duty. I suspect you can read quite a lot about the instincts of a Johnson government into this, not least as it's really the first big "tactical" issue they've had to respond to since the election. When push came to shove, protecting regional economies was given priority over environmental issues. That probably shouldn't be a surprise given the balance of the manifesto (and where the Conservatives won seats).

    Perhaps more interesting is the willingness to upset the free-market purists - see this piece in the Telegraph. I'm pretty sure neither the Cameron nor May administrations would have gone that way (certainly not the May administration, where Hammand as Chancellor was as hawkish as they come). Also shows a willingness to piss off Willie Walsh, but that's not surprising given he's managed to fall out with pretty much everybody in politics by now.
  • disusedgenius 15 Jan 2020 12:20:16 10,319 posts
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    Youthist wrote:
    One for all you Tories and "bojo" fans out there to try to defend:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-51117457
    Not that I'm a fan, but there's not really much he can do in this situation, no?
  • Youthist 15 Jan 2020 12:26:42 13,994 posts
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    He could of course push the US Government 100% on this topic,and use the media to increase attention to the cause, increasing the chances she comes back and faces the judicial process. But no, he would rather row in behind Trump and shut the entire thing down.

    She killed someone then immediately ran back to America. If she is innocent then fine - come back to the UK and prove it. "Bojo" clearly jut wants his belly rubbed by Trump. Of course.
  • mattproton 15 Jan 2020 12:40:20 55 posts
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    @Youthist That is exactly what you morally should do and I am monumentally fucking glad I will never be in that position.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 15 Jan 2020 12:48:07 18,711 posts
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    Good to see RLB committing to the the Muslimís councilís ten point plan for tackling Islamophobia.

    Be interesting to see if thereís similar outrage from the Corbyites as there was to the BOD recommendations.
  • disusedgenius 15 Jan 2020 12:48:53 10,319 posts
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    You could change Trump and Boris for any politician in their respective countries, there'd still be zero chance. This is state machinery we're talking about here.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 15 Jan 2020 12:52:00 7,407 posts
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    He could absolutely push the US Government 100% on the topic... but he'd probably get nowhere (the Trump administration not known for being susceptible to outside pressure) and could sour the diplomatic relationship ahead of trade talks where the national interest is at stake. The "moral" answer in this case isn't necessarily the "right" answer. International diplomacy is often about picking your fights carefully. Abuses of diplomatic immunity are unfortunately fairly common around the world and had the suspect in this case been Russian or Chinese, I suspect it would have had far less attention as we'd just have taken for granted that extradition would never happen.

    Besides, I'm not sure what Boris did this morning was more than giving his best assessment of the likelihood of success. That's probably better than giving false hope where there's no cause for it. I've a nasty suspicion that the grieving family in this case have been hijacked by an ambulance chasing lawyer looking to make a name for himself... suing the FCO is a very strange move and not one likely to result in anything other than press coverage.
  • mattproton 15 Jan 2020 13:06:14 55 posts
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    @Rogueywon Yeah absolutely. I mean the relationship between morality and the law and nature. Even within our borders when we make moral decisions we still need the police to use natural strength to interpret the morality into the natural world.. Whether we can be moral is relative to whether or not we are strong enough I guess.
  • RyanDS 15 Jan 2020 13:27:28 12,977 posts
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    disusedgenius wrote:
    Youthist wrote:
    One for all you Tories and "bojo" fans out there to try to defend:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-51117457
    Not that I'm a fan, but there's not really much he can do in this situation, no?
    Not comment? in the article it says there was an agreement not to comment while the extradition was being chased. Instead he spouts out his views on the mothers birthday.
  • askew 15 Jan 2020 14:04:18 20,531 posts
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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-51121875/matt-hancock-we-shouldn-t-be-flying-less

    Hancock. Need I say more?
  • Youthist 15 Jan 2020 15:25:42 13,994 posts
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    Rogueywon wrote:

    I've a nasty suspicion that the grieving family in this case have been hijacked by an ambulance chasing lawyer looking to make a name for himself... suing the FCO is a very strange move and not one likely to result in anything other than press coverage.
    You are dreaming up s story based on no information outside of you having a nasty suspicion. The boy died - I dont imagine the family need much encouragemnt to push for justice. Johnson would have course been able to apply pressure here, and he could have said words a little more encouragingly, but chose not to. He could have also kept his mouth shut or batted the question away, but chose not to. He could have done something except sidle alongside Trump and the Trump rhetoric, but he chose not to.

    A boy died due to this woman being directly involved in the accident, who then fled immediately afterwards rather than wait to explain to the authrorities. Hiding behind diplomatic immunity should be called out as toally unacceptable, something else he could have chosen to say, but chose not to.

    The fact / whataboutery that this is the USA and not China or Russia is of course the reason to have more expectancy over a postive outcome, and yes it has a higher profile. Or should we just accept it and move on because of "Trade Negotiations"?
  • JamboWayOh 15 Jan 2020 15:29:22 16,597 posts
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    disusedgenius wrote:
    You could change Trump and Boris for any politician in their respective countries, there'd still be zero chance. This is state machinery we're talking about here.
    Exactly, it's horrible but there's nothing that will or can be done if we remove morality from the equation.
  • mattproton 15 Jan 2020 15:33:34 55 posts
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    Fair enough.. How you say what you say and when you say things.. You focus on the practical cause and effect and there is one result but it was clumsy diplomacy I guess..
  • disusedgenius 15 Jan 2020 15:40:10 10,319 posts
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    If it's any consolation, it won't happen so we can make a use of the same thing ourselves at some point.
  • TheSaint 15 Jan 2020 15:41:24 19,094 posts
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    askew wrote:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-51121875/matt-hancock-we-shouldn-t-be-flying-less

    Hancock. Need I say more?
    He's having quite a day as he also hinted at an end to the A&E targets that keep getting missed month after month.
  • senso-ji 15 Jan 2020 15:43:38 9,987 posts
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    Hancock is not the Health Secretary we need; he's the Health Secretary we deserve.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 15 Jan 2020 15:43:51 7,407 posts
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    @Youthist My "suspicion" is based on the fact that Radd Seiger seems to be making lots of filings which nobody with half a brain seems to think will go anywhere, but which are getting him a lot of publicity. Lawyers latching onto families in a vulnerable state and using them for their own ends is, sadly, not without precedent. He's also potentially racking up big legal bills for the family if the JR against the FCO fails. I might be wrong - he might have a cast-iron case, who knows. But his frantic twitter activity doesn't exactly suggest a shy, retiring violet. The BBC piece on the chances of extradition are hardly cheerful reading.

    The accident was awful and the use of diplomatic immunity is a disgrace. But these are rules laid down at UN level... full of flaws but almost impossible to change. Unfortunately, moaning about those rules goes down very badly on the international stage (as a lot of unpleasant but powerful regimes exploit them for all they're worth). I haven't seen Boris doing much to "sidle alongside Trump" on this one - he appears to have been pushing the case reasonably hard. Being realistic about the likely outcome is hardly a major sin. Hell, he's playing very unfriendly with Trump on the Huawei thing (though I wish he'd follow the US line on that one, to be honest).

    Screaming "vile cunt" at Boris over every last thing isn't going to get you far. Making tricky trade-offs on which issues to push to the hilt and which not to goes with being in power. A fear that Corbyn wasn't up to that was likely part of the reason so many people had no confidence in him. Also perfectly reasonable to play the long game on the US. Trump's re-election chances are probably below 50% now (I rated them higher 12 months ago but he's shambled from fuck up to fuck up in the last few months and has some economic warning lights flashing).

    The shit Putin's just pulled in Russia is far more worrying. There goes the last faint veneer of democracy there...
  • JamboWayOh 15 Jan 2020 15:45:12 16,597 posts
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    disusedgenius wrote:
    If it's any consolation, it won't happen so we can make a use of the same thing ourselves at some point.
    I do feel like that under Trump there would be much, much more noise coming from America if the roles were reversed. And it was a brown person who ran over a white person.

    Edited by JamboWayOh at 15:45:47 15-01-2020
  • JamboWayOh 15 Jan 2020 15:47:35 16,597 posts
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    @Rogueywon

    Eh, I don't think there's ever been a faint veneer of democracy in Russia since Putin got in power.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 15 Jan 2020 15:48:56 7,407 posts
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    JamboWayOh wrote:
    @Rogueywon

    Eh, I don't think there's ever been a faint veneer of democracy in Russia since Putin got in power.
    You might be right, but he did a good job of hiding it for the first few years.
  • disusedgenius 15 Jan 2020 15:53:09 10,319 posts
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    Wasn't that well over a decade ago now?
  • Armoured_Bear 15 Jan 2020 15:54:40 27,867 posts
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    Boris isn't a vile cunt, he just has to make tricky trade offs, part of the job as PM.
    He's a good egg, really.
  • JamboWayOh 15 Jan 2020 16:00:53 16,597 posts
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    disusedgenius wrote:
    Wasn't that well over a decade ago now?
    10 years this May.
  • mattproton 15 Jan 2020 16:07:24 55 posts
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    Vile is very emotive.. I think his decisions are a pretty explainable consequence of what he is.. I mean, public school, very conventional within the culture that he was born into... Wealthy and Conservative.. Oxford educated..

    I find though, if the person is a product of his evironment, then words like vile imply a personal characteristic, but if you accept that he is conventional within his culture, then I find it difficult to project personal abuse onto the person..

    To be honest, I think most of what people use as examples of "vile" like the racism and homophobia, it seems like he's really fucking clumsy and careless more than any vitriol or malice..

    People might see it different though, I never read malice or vitriol from him..

    Edited by mattproton at 16:08:12 15-01-2020
  • TheSaint 15 Jan 2020 16:09:34 19,094 posts
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    What is the deal with all the double full stops?
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