Following UK Politics Thread Page 631

  • disusedgenius 12 Feb 2020 11:16:03 10,546 posts
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    tbh Roguey's entire post might as well read 'the Tories have successfully defined the public political discourse for 10 years'.
  • TheSaint 12 Feb 2020 11:22:52 19,702 posts
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    They've got that bigot vote sown up. Roguey must be proud.
  • disusedgenius 12 Feb 2020 11:28:37 10,546 posts
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    It's one of those chicken or egg situation. Who can tell whether the Tories are increasingly cunty to appeal to a current wave of cunts or the Tories successfully convince people to be cunts with their cuntish PR?
  • chopsen 12 Feb 2020 11:31:38 21,045 posts
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    We've generally mostly been a bit right wing as a nation though, for decades now.

    The tory vote was actually quite strong under Thatcher (something that often gets airbrushed over in the popular narrative) and Major actually had the biggest share of the popular vote ever.

    They lost power quite dramatically because they lost credibility as they tore themselves apart over Europe and various naughty shenanigans that made the news at the same time that Labour moved to the centre.

    Edited by chopsen at 11:31:50 12-02-2020
  • monkman76 12 Feb 2020 11:42:21 16,172 posts
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    chopsen wrote:
    The tory vote was actually quite strong under Thatcher (something that often gets airbrushed over in the popular narrative)
    Does it? Genuine question. My impression is that the Tories totally dominated in the eighties, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 12 Feb 2020 13:02:14 9,028 posts
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    @monkman76 Yeah, I don't think anybody's under any illusions that the '80s were dominated by the Tories. Their election wins in '83 and '87 were huge.

    Other than that, I basically agree with chopsen's post. The UK has moved a long way to the right on economic issues since the late '70s. Labour's last stint in office came when they decided/pretended to accept the thrust of the Conservative economic agenda. A lot of people thought/hoped/feared (delete according to the political persuasion) that the economic crash of the late '00s and early '10s would lead to a revival of left-wing economics. But based on the 2019 election and the Ashcroft work, that hasn't happened (I've got a theory on why, but not for this post).

    But at the same time, the UK moved a long way to the left on social issues. This was part of what tripped the Tories up in the '90s, right through to the end of the IDS era - they sounded badly out of touch with the mood of the country. Cameron pulled the party a huge distance to the left on social issues - same-sex marriages were introduced by him. But there do seem to be some signs coming through the data now - not just from the Ashcroft work - that the UK's move left on social issues seems to have halted. What's not clear is whether it's had a "this far but no further" moment, or whether the pendulum is swinging back in the other direction. But Labour have been left looking like Wile E Coyote running over the edge of a cliff, as they pushed too far and fast on social issues.

    You sometimes hear of social issues referred to as "wedges". This is because of their ability to drive a separation between a party and those who should be its natural supporters, if they voted on self-interest. The Tories spent a good chunk of the '90s and '00s on the wrong side of wedge issues from a lot of their usual voters and Labour absolutely hammered them for it (not a complaint - that's just good politics). Section 28 was a good example (and smarter Tories knew at the time that it was a loser for them). But now the wedges are hurting Labour much more than the Tories.
  • RobAnybody 12 Feb 2020 13:25:27 2,187 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    I do hope these Conservatives and Momentum conspiracy types donít get their way. Bloody love the Beeb me, and CBeebies is the only thing worth watching with preschoolers

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/11/bbc-boss-warns-end-of-licence-fee-would-mean-no-cbeebies
    Why cut Cbeebies and CBBC though? Instead why not cut the shit soap operas, antique shows, low brow dramas and the like? Instead show loads of repeats from the 60s, 70s and 80s, that'll save money and keep the Tory supporting older folk happy.
  • X201 12 Feb 2020 15:23:09 20,702 posts
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    RobAnybody wrote:
    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    I do hope these Conservatives and Momentum conspiracy types donít get their way. Bloody love the Beeb me, and CBeebies is the only thing worth watching with preschoolers

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/11/bbc-boss-warns-end-of-licence-fee-would-mean-no-cbeebies
    Why cut Cbeebies and CBBC though? Instead why not cut the shit soap operas, antique shows, low brow dramas and the like? Instead show loads of repeats from the 60s, 70s and 80s, that'll save money and keep the Tory supporting older folk happy.
    In the context of the "Turn it into a Netflix... Market forces...etc" desires of some.

    BBC One's top show this week will be around the 8 million mark. Cebeebies is pulling in about 500 thousand.

    That's why.
  • TechnoHippy 12 Feb 2020 16:19:22 17,516 posts
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    Should Boris be deported on the same grounds as the deportees the other day?

    https://www.indy100.com/article/jeremy-corbyn-boris-johnson-jamaica-deportation-flight-windrush-pmqs-latest-9331436
  • Deleted user 12 February 2020 17:51:04
    All this debate about early release for people convicted of terrorist offences seems to have missed a crucial point. It is up to the CPS to decide what legislation is used against a defendant.

    Terrorism laws have already been used against non-violent protesters. We have also recently found out that Extinction Rebellion are regarded as "extremists" which is not a long way away from being labeled a terrorist organisation.

    So while it is great to think we can lock up the bad men and throw away the key, it is a very slippery slope.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 12 Feb 2020 19:37:34 13,999 posts
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    X201 wrote:
    RobAnybody wrote:
    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    I do hope these Conservatives and Momentum conspiracy types donít get their way. Bloody love the Beeb me, and CBeebies is the only thing worth watching with preschoolers

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/11/bbc-boss-warns-end-of-licence-fee-would-mean-no-cbeebies
    Why cut Cbeebies and CBBC though? Instead why not cut the shit soap operas, antique shows, low brow dramas and the like? Instead show loads of repeats from the 60s, 70s and 80s, that'll save money and keep the Tory supporting older folk happy.
    In the context of the "Turn it into a Netflix... Market forces...etc" desires of some.

    BBC One's top show this week will be around the 8 million mark. Cebeebies is pulling in about 500 thousand.

    That's why.
    CBeebies is the greatest bit of public service broadcasting in the UK today
  • Graxlar_v3 12 Feb 2020 20:37:31 10,225 posts
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    @simpleexplodingmaybe waffle the wonder dog!
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 12 Feb 2020 20:49:41 13,999 posts
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    disusedgenius wrote:
    tbh Roguey's entire post might as well read 'the Tories have successfully defined the public political discourse for 10 years'.
    But Jezza said Labour had won the argument last year so thatís over now
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 12 Feb 2020 20:51:31 13,999 posts
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    Graxlar_v3 wrote:
    @simpleexplodingmaybe waffle the wonder dog!
    Basically everything except Tree Fu Tom (which is shit) and Baby Jake (which is a delirious nightmare)
  • Graxlar_v3 12 Feb 2020 20:54:04 10,225 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    Graxlar_v3 wrote:
    @simpleexplodingmaybe waffle the wonder dog!
    Basically everything except Tree Fu Tom (which is shit) and Baby Jake (which is a delirious nightmare)
    My kid loves Andy, I think I will be most disappointed if that were to go
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 12 Feb 2020 22:16:19 25,648 posts
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    Wffle the wonder dog is an abomination. My life is a lot better now my son has moved on from cbeebies.
  • Graxlar_v3 12 Feb 2020 22:47:37 10,225 posts
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    Decks wrote:
    Wffle the wonder dog is an abomination. My life is a lot better now my son has moved on from cbeebies.
    Only good thing about it is the mum is hot I suppose
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 12 Feb 2020 22:50:13 25,648 posts
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    She's such a twat though. I'd take Topsy and Tim's mum over her any day.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 12 Feb 2020 23:09:04 13,999 posts
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    This Labour leadership debate on Newsnight is fairly desperate but Starmer and Nandy are pricking my interest.

    Thornberry is so far off the pace.

    Long-Bailey doesnít seem authentic but I get the feeling sheís trying to say exactly what her internal constituency wants to hear rather than her own clear voice.

    Nandy could easily be the Ed Miliband of this contest.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 12 Feb 2020 23:28:46 13,999 posts
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    Decks wrote:
    She's such a twat though. I'd take Topsy and Tim's mum over her any day.
    Topsy & Timís parents are 100% Nick Clegg fans
  • TheSaint 13 Feb 2020 00:23:57 19,702 posts
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    Apparently Johnson has been caught lying again. This time about who paid £15k for the villa he stayed in at Christmas.

    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1227717453549047811?s=21
  • Dougs 13 Feb 2020 08:01:24 94,678 posts
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    Decks wrote:
    She's such a twat though. I'd take Topsy and Tim's mum over her any day.
    Yeah, but then you'd have Topsy and Tim kicking around. Definitely the most irritating kids on telly. Smug fuckers.
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 13 Feb 2020 08:33:04 25,648 posts
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    Let them watch.
  • Load_2.0 13 Feb 2020 08:43:53 31,893 posts
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    TheSaint wrote:
    Apparently Johnson has been caught lying again. This time about who paid £15k for the villa he stayed in at Christmas.

    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1227717453549047811?s=21
    None of it matters anymore. They'll be zero consequences.

    Trump is now the bar that behaviour is judged by.

    If the people of the UK and US want to be ruled by incompetent buffoons so be it.
  • Dougs 13 Feb 2020 09:48:16 94,678 posts
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    Julian Smith first out the door. Which is odd as he actually did a good job.

    Leadsome apparently gone too
  • X201 13 Feb 2020 09:54:05 20,702 posts
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    Please kick Gavin Williamson, he's a modern day Chris Grayling
  • X201 13 Feb 2020 09:55:30 20,702 posts
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    Esther McVey has gone, which is a good start
  • TheSaint 13 Feb 2020 10:08:30 19,702 posts
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    Load_2.0 wrote:
    TheSaint wrote:
    Apparently Johnson has been caught lying again. This time about who paid £15k for the villa he stayed in at Christmas.

    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1227717453549047811?s=21
    None of it matters anymore. They'll be zero consequences.

    Trump is now the bar that behaviour is judged by.

    If the people of the UK and US want to be ruled by incompetent buffoons so be it.
    I'm not so sure. One of the only scandals that really gained traction over recent years was around expenses.

    It's also quite interesting that the Mail have the knives out for him already.
  • TheSaint 13 Feb 2020 10:09:20 19,702 posts
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    Does being a mother help Leadsom deal with being sacked?
  • X201 13 Feb 2020 10:14:18 20,702 posts
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    Angela Loathsome gone

    Obviously to lower the evil ratio seeing as Priti Awful is now in the cabinet
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