UK Politics Thread Page 749

  • Psychotext 12 Jan 2021 13:19:18 69,155 posts
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    Graxlar_v3 wrote:
    It must cost more to have someone cut up & wrap the veg (which will go off super quickly) than it would do just to give them a whole pepper no?
    JOB CREATION, VALUE ADDING, TRICKLE DOWN!
  • RichDC 12 Jan 2021 13:20:46 9,007 posts
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    Poor people would just trade peppers for crack.
  • tadejpogacar 12 Jan 2021 13:26:44 407 posts
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    Keir Starmer is not even going to win back the voters he's been continually dogwhistlnig to in the North of England AND every time he does so, he further alienates those he needs to win back in Scotland plus a lot of the BAME and precariat millenial coalition put on under the previous leadership. He's in quite a bind.

    Edited by tadejpogacar at 13:27:31 12-01-2021
  • brokenkey 12 Jan 2021 13:27:28 10,726 posts
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    Look, it's not fair to complain the £30 Free School Meal boxes are looking a bit empty. The govt had joined-up plans to re-purpose confiscated ham sandwiches at Dover. It's not their fault that port traffic is down.
  • nickthegun 12 Jan 2021 13:28:22 84,512 posts
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    Funnily enough, I just saw Hannan on BBC politics cheerleading the destruction of workers rights as necessary to kickstart the economy.

    Its vital companies are allowed to fuck people they hire over otherwise they may not hire them at all. Because, obviously, when you allow a company to save money on staff, they will reinvest it in staff and not, say, hoard the extra profit like an angry dragon.

    Edited by nickthegun at 13:52:11 12-01-2021
  • You-can-call-me-kal 12 Jan 2021 13:31:44 22,315 posts
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    tadejpogacar wrote:
    Keir Starmer is not even going to win back the voters he's been continually dogwhistlnig to in the North of England AND every time he does so, he further alienates those he needs to win back in Scotland plus a lot of the BAME and precariat millenial coalition put on under the previous leadership. He's in quite a bind.
    The voting intention stats donít reflect that.
  • Psychotext 12 Jan 2021 13:32:26 69,155 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    hoard the extra profit like an angry dragon
    Oh man... capitalism makes much, much more sense when it's put that way!
  • General_Martok 12 Jan 2021 13:39:44 1,669 posts
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    tadejpogacar wrote:
    Keir Starmer is not even going to win back the voters he's been continually dogwhistlnig to in the North of England AND every time he does so, he further alienates those he needs to win back in Scotland plus a lot of the BAME and precariat millenial coalition put on under the previous leadership. He's in quite a bind.
    Behold the reason this country will have to endure another 10 years of Conservative rule.

    IF what you say holds to be true.
  • tadejpogacar 12 Jan 2021 13:41:27 407 posts
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    We'll have a first sign of how things are going with Locals and Scottish Elections in May (though Locals are likely to be pushed out to June/July). If the SNP win a majority that would be quite a black eye for both Westminster parties.
  • General_Martok 12 Jan 2021 13:45:36 1,669 posts
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    Not really. It doesn't change anything.
  • tadejpogacar 12 Jan 2021 13:49:34 407 posts
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    What? The Scottish election system is specifically engineered so that majorities are nigh impossible. This is why it was such a massive shock that the SNP achieved it in 2011 (which ultimately led the Edinburgh Agreement and Indyref.) For it to happen again would be massive - particularly if the SNP put a commitment for another Indyref in their manifesto.
  • General_Martok 12 Jan 2021 13:53:06 1,669 posts
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    I mean to the the rest of us. You guys can have independence. It won't make a difference to England. We'll still be in the grips of Tory power.
  • DaM 12 Jan 2021 13:53:11 17,595 posts
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    tadejpogacar wrote:
    We'll have a first sign of how things are going with Locals and Scottish Elections in May (though Locals are likely to be pushed out to June/July). If the SNP win a majority that would be quite a black eye for both Westminster parties.
    Loads of "Unionist" propaganda coming out. Co-ordinated social media attacks on Sturgeon/SNP. An army of false accounts. Paid for advertising by brand new made up groups. Astroturfing with groups like ThemForUs Scotland.

    Starmer isn't really helping. In Scotland, if you were a Labour voter, you are probably now an SNP voter. If you voted Remain, you are probably now an SNP voter. If you are middle of the road or slightly left wing, you are probably now an SNP voter.

    What's left is largely hardcore gammons and Rangers fans.

    They aren't putting forward a positive case for the UK, just keep pushing the "SNP have failed on health and education", which is bollocks.
  • tadejpogacar 12 Jan 2021 13:56:06 407 posts
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    I've never voted SNP before in my life but will be in May.

    Keir Starmer keeps on draping himself in the Union Jack. Does he think Scottish people don't watch UK news?
  • General_Martok 12 Jan 2021 13:58:46 1,669 posts
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    Goodo. Enjoy independence. Say hi to the EU. Look forward to you guys denying us entry in 2060.

    :)
  • You-can-call-me-kal 12 Jan 2021 14:05:43 22,315 posts
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    Yeah Scottish politics elude me a bit, but I can see how badly Labour have done and are doing there, and itís going to be a huge factor in them not getting into power. In a way Scottish independence would actually be a good thing for Labour in a fucked up kind of sense.
  • IRWATWO 12 Jan 2021 14:22:58 949 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    Graxlar_v3 wrote:
    It must cost more to have someone cut up & wrap the veg (which will go off super quickly) than it would do just to give them a whole pepper no?
    JOB CREATION, VALUE ADDING, TRICKLE DOWN!
    If you give them a whole carrot they'll just want another one, but perhaps an offcut will motivate them to go out and catch their own carrots - Govt Nudge Unit (now privatised and sold to Matt Hancocks bookie).
  • TheSaint 12 Jan 2021 14:24:57 20,280 posts
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    The worst part is the random lump of Tuna in the plastic cup. The food posing risk from that must be off the charts.
  • Decks 12 Jan 2021 14:27:41 28,417 posts
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    It was a money bag. They're sending people a money bag half filled with tuna.

    https://twitter.com/LMT1180/status/1348751047242768387/photo/1
  • Armoured_Bear 12 Jan 2021 14:28:36 29,481 posts
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    I'm amazed at how much of a cunt Starmer is making of Scotland, the local leader is a laughing stock and Starmer's position of "no divisive referendum" is plain insulting likely to lose plenty of votes.
  • drhickman1983 12 Jan 2021 14:29:48 7,337 posts
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    Something has gone utterly wrong with those contractors. It's just fucking demeaning, not to mention unhygienic.

    Of course nothing will come of it because well keep just voting those fuckers in.
  • TheSaint 12 Jan 2021 14:34:15 20,280 posts
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    Decks wrote:
    It was a money bag. They're sending people a money bag half filled with tuna.

    https://twitter.com/LMT1180/status/1348751047242768387/photo/1
    This was the one I saw:

    https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1348982986377744389?s=20

    The money bag is even worse.
  • DJCopa 12 Jan 2021 14:34:27 2,464 posts
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    drhickman1983 wrote:
    Something has gone utterly wrong with those contractors. It's just fucking demeaning, not to mention unhygienic.

    Of course nothing will come of it because well keep just voting those fuckers in.
    Exactly this.

    Just give people the voucher for the food - Caveat of no alcohol or tobacco, job done.

    Degrading bullshit!
  • TheSaint 12 Jan 2021 14:35:42 20,280 posts
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    How are Tory donors supposed to skim money off the top of vouchers?
  • DJCopa 12 Jan 2021 14:37:36 2,464 posts
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    @TheSaint You got me there, although I'm sure one owns a paper mill.
  • Psychotext 12 Jan 2021 14:42:19 69,155 posts
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    DJCopa wrote:
    Just give people the voucher for the food - Caveat of no alcohol or tobacco, job done.

    Degrading bullshit!
    The voucher has always worked that way. No lottery too (and a couple of other things I believe).

    Remember, this is almost certainly because that cretininous Tory said they were swapping the vouchers for drugs / spending them in brothels.

    Edited by Psychotext at 14:42:53 12-01-2021
  • Dgzter 12 Jan 2021 14:46:48 3,516 posts
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    DaM wrote:
    Loads of "Unionist" propaganda coming out. Co-ordinated social media attacks on Sturgeon/SNP. An army of false accounts. Paid for advertising by brand new made up groups. Astroturfing with groups like ThemForUs Scotland.

    Starmer isn't really helping. In Scotland, if you were a Labour voter, you are probably now an SNP voter. If you voted Remain, you are probably now an SNP voter. If you are middle of the road or slightly left wing, you are probably now an SNP voter.

    What's left is largely hardcore gammons and Rangers fans.

    They aren't putting forward a positive case for the UK, just keep pushing the "SNP have failed on health and education", which is bollocks.
    Yeah. Twitter is an absolute sewer when it comes to any Scottish issue these days, aided and abetted by a national press that are almost exclusively pro-Union and anti-SNP. It's crazy watching them now piling all their hopes on Alex Salmond, whom they used to demonize relentlessly, being able to pin a minor breach of the ministerial code (a long shot) on Sturgeon in relation to his court case, desperately hoping that will lead to her resignation.

    Labour's position in Scotland is really difficult, and for all their failures I do actually sympathize to an extent. Anecdotal, but having grown up in Glasgow literally every person I knew came from long-standing Labour voting families, and the vast majority of those now vote for the SNP. Setting aside all the nonsense that is frequently spouted in the press about nationalism and anti-English sentiment, the fact of the matter is that Scotland historically and culturally has predominantly always (with very few exceptions) voted to the left of centre or down the middle. Is it really of any surprise, then, that over a decade of Tory rule in Westminster, which in the last few years especially has seen a huge shift to the far right of the party, has been met with dismay north of the border? Add the debacle of Brexit on top, which regardless of the realities of it being a UK-wide vote (it was, I accept) still saw a monumental and quite literally life-changing decision being made against the democratic will of the majority of the Scottish people, and disillusionment with the Union and even a sense of disenfranchisement were sure to follow.

    Honestly, Starmer's only play here is to acknowledge and accept that it is up to the Scottish people to decide if they want another referendum, support it happening, and then campaign for the Union. He is never going to attract back former Labour voters, the majority of whom have moved over to the SNP, if he is seen to be blocking the democratic will.

    Edited by Dgzter at 14:47:01 12-01-2021
  • Graxlar_v3 12 Jan 2021 14:50:56 10,806 posts
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    Dgzter wrote:
    DaM wrote:
    Loads of "Unionist" propaganda coming out. Co-ordinated social media attacks on Sturgeon/SNP. An army of false accounts. Paid for advertising by brand new made up groups. Astroturfing with groups like ThemForUs Scotland.

    Starmer isn't really helping. In Scotland, if you were a Labour voter, you are probably now an SNP voter. If you voted Remain, you are probably now an SNP voter. If you are middle of the road or slightly left wing, you are probably now an SNP voter.

    What's left is largely hardcore gammons and Rangers fans.

    They aren't putting forward a positive case for the UK, just keep pushing the "SNP have failed on health and education", which is bollocks.
    Yeah. Twitter is an absolute sewer when it comes to any Scottish issue these days, aided and abetted by a national press that are almost exclusively pro-Union and anti-SNP. It's crazy watching them now piling all their hopes on Alex Salmond, whom they used to demonize relentlessly, being able to pin a minor breach of the ministerial code (a long shot) on Sturgeon in relation to his court case, desperately hoping that will lead to her resignation.

    Labour's position in Scotland is really difficult, and for all their failures I do actually sympathize to an extent. Anecdotal, but having grown up in Glasgow literally every person I knew came from long-standing Labour voting families, and the vast majority of those now vote for the SNP. Setting aside all the nonsense that is frequently spouted in the press about nationalism and anti-English sentiment, the fact of the matter is that Scotland historically and culturally has predominantly always (with very few exceptions) voted to the left of centre or down the middle. Is it really of any surprise, then, that over a decade of Tory rule in Westminster, which in the last few years especially has seen a huge shift to the far right of the party, has been met with dismay north of the border? Add the debacle of Brexit on top, which regardless of the realities of it being a UK-wide vote (it was, I accept) still saw a monumental and quite literally life-changing decision being made against the democratic will of the majority of the Scottish people, and disillusionment with the Union and even a sense of disenfranchisement were sure to follow.

    Honestly, Starmer's only play here is to acknowledge and accept that it is up to the Scottish people to decide if they want another referendum, support it happening, and then campaign for the Union. He is never going to attract back former Labour voters, the majority of whom have moved over to the SNP, if he is seen to be blocking the democratic will.
    After Brexit, i cannot see any party leader offering a referendum as an olive branch again for a long long time.

    I don't think you Scots are going to get another say in the union again I am afraid.
  • Graxlar_v3 12 Jan 2021 14:52:20 10,806 posts
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    I will say, I welcome the SNP's voice in westminister as Scottish issues should be heard. I just wish it wasn't at the expense of having an effective governing body.
  • imamazed 12 Jan 2021 14:55:01 6,551 posts
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    Graxlar_v3 wrote:
    Dgzter wrote:
    DaM wrote:
    Loads of "Unionist" propaganda coming out. Co-ordinated social media attacks on Sturgeon/SNP. An army of false accounts. Paid for advertising by brand new made up groups. Astroturfing with groups like ThemForUs Scotland.

    Starmer isn't really helping. In Scotland, if you were a Labour voter, you are probably now an SNP voter. If you voted Remain, you are probably now an SNP voter. If you are middle of the road or slightly left wing, you are probably now an SNP voter.

    What's left is largely hardcore gammons and Rangers fans.

    They aren't putting forward a positive case for the UK, just keep pushing the "SNP have failed on health and education", which is bollocks.
    Yeah. Twitter is an absolute sewer when it comes to any Scottish issue these days, aided and abetted by a national press that are almost exclusively pro-Union and anti-SNP. It's crazy watching them now piling all their hopes on Alex Salmond, whom they used to demonize relentlessly, being able to pin a minor breach of the ministerial code (a long shot) on Sturgeon in relation to his court case, desperately hoping that will lead to her resignation.

    Labour's position in Scotland is really difficult, and for all their failures I do actually sympathize to an extent. Anecdotal, but having grown up in Glasgow literally every person I knew came from long-standing Labour voting families, and the vast majority of those now vote for the SNP. Setting aside all the nonsense that is frequently spouted in the press about nationalism and anti-English sentiment, the fact of the matter is that Scotland historically and culturally has predominantly always (with very few exceptions) voted to the left of centre or down the middle. Is it really of any surprise, then, that over a decade of Tory rule in Westminster, which in the last few years especially has seen a huge shift to the far right of the party, has been met with dismay north of the border? Add the debacle of Brexit on top, which regardless of the realities of it being a UK-wide vote (it was, I accept) still saw a monumental and quite literally life-changing decision being made against the democratic will of the majority of the Scottish people, and disillusionment with the Union and even a sense of disenfranchisement were sure to follow.

    Honestly, Starmer's only play here is to acknowledge and accept that it is up to the Scottish people to decide if they want another referendum, support it happening, and then campaign for the Union. He is never going to attract back former Labour voters, the majority of whom have moved over to the SNP, if he is seen to be blocking the democratic will.
    After Brexit, i cannot see any party leader offering a referendum as an olive branch again for a long long time.

    I don't think you Scots are going to get another say in the union again I am afraid.
    Starmer might have trouble denying one, mind, given his support for a 2nd Brexit referendum. There's a clear case to be made that the first Scottish referendum was, and should still be, the only one for a generation (i.e. a while yet), but Starmer would have a hard time making that case.

    The two issues are clearly not identical, but politically they would quickly become entwined. To be honest, I can't really see how there won't be a 2nd Scottish referendum before the end of the decade.
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