UK Politics Thread Page 750

  • Dgzter 12 Jan 2021 14:57:52 3,516 posts
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    Graxlar_v3 wrote:
    I will say, I welcome the SNP's voice in westminister as Scottish issues should be heard. I just wish it wasn't at the expense of having an effective governing body.
    Sorry, I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean here?
  • Graxlar_v3 12 Jan 2021 14:58:00 10,806 posts
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    @imamazed Because it needs the support of Westminister, and unless there is a hung Parliament (with labour & SNP joining forces) I don't see there being one.

    Starmer is much less likely to agree to one than Boris or the Tory's). For Boris, getting rid of scotland guarantees tory premiership for the next 101-5 years (probably longer) given that Scotland is alot more left leaning than the England is in general.
  • Graxlar_v3 12 Jan 2021 14:58:41 10,806 posts
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    Dgzter wrote:
    Graxlar_v3 wrote:
    I will say, I welcome the SNP's voice in westminister as Scottish issues should be heard. I just wish it wasn't at the expense of having an effective governing body.
    Sorry, I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean here?
    Basically, the fact that without Scotland, we wont have another Labour government sucks. I am not blaming Scotland for that fact, but it is a fact.

    Edited by Graxlar_v3 at 14:58:47 12-01-2021
  • Dgzter 12 Jan 2021 15:04:07 3,516 posts
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    @Graxlar_v3

    Well, you're certainly right not to blame Scotland. It's the Labour party's responsibility to convince a majority of English voters that they offer a better alternative to the Tories.
  • imamazed 12 Jan 2021 15:06:56 6,551 posts
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    Graxlar_v3 wrote:
    @imamazed Because it needs the support of Westminister, and unless there is a hung Parliament (with labour & SNP joining forces) I don't see there being one.

    Starmer is much less likely to agree to one than Boris or the Tory's). For Boris, getting rid of scotland guarantees tory premiership for the next 101-5 years (probably longer) given that Scotland is alot more left leaning than the England is in general.
    I think the political landscape could easily change quite quickly, and make Westminster support a given. It's easy for the Tories to say no now, but things will change a lot if SNP sweep the board electorally on an explicit indy campaign again. You add to that public pressure over a couple of years and yeh, I can see it happening.

    And on the electoral point, that effect has been overstated. Psephologically speaking, it's been quite well established that removing Scottish MPs from previous elections would have actually made a pretty negligible difference on final outcomes. Blair certainly would have won his 3 elections at a canter without Scottish seats. People forget, of course, that lots (a minority, but still lots) of Scottish people vote Tory.
  • Gibroon 12 Jan 2021 15:41:28 2,397 posts
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    After the last referendum I was happy to leave it at least 10 years. It would be another 10 years of UK government fuck ups and general screwing over everyone they can for a quick buck. Add to that the effects of Brexit really grinding this country down to lower levels of poverty. This would definitely put a lot more Scots into the bracket of nothing to lose.

    I get annoyed with the SNP myself when they keep going on about another referendum. They really should have said they would review it in a few years not every few months.
  • JamboWayOh 12 Jan 2021 15:47:17 22,445 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    DJCopa wrote:
    Just give people the voucher for the food - Caveat of no alcohol or tobacco, job done.

    Degrading bullshit!
    The voucher has always worked that way. No lottery too (and a couple of other things I believe).

    Remember, this is almost certainly because that cretininous Tory said they were swapping the vouchers for drugs / spending them in brothels.
    Yeah this is the bullshit I had to deal with when I worked for the DWP and had to respond to constituents about where their taxes were going and I routinely was told shopping vouchers were being spent on fags and booze. God I hated that job.

    Edited by JamboWayOh at 15:47:33 12-01-2021
  • nickthegun 12 Jan 2021 16:00:01 84,512 posts
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    Its to pacify the 'spend their benefits on sky, mobile phones and internet' mob.

    I mean, its disgusting but endemic of a governement that doesnt believe its a governments job to do anything. Like every initiative you privatise, the minute theres a profit to be made, people will make it.

    Call me weird, but people shouldnt be making money from feeding the poor. Every penny should go to, you know, food. But if you give a bastard tory 30 quid to feed someone, they will give you a quids worth of food and charge you £29 for the labour.

    Its disgusting but entirely unsurprising.
  • DaM 12 Jan 2021 16:56:08 17,595 posts
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    Graxlar_v3 wrote:
    After Brexit, i cannot see any party leader offering a referendum as an olive branch again for a long long time.

    I don't think you Scots are going to get another say in the union again I am afraid.
    And you have to understand that being told you are in a free and equal union, where only one partner can decide if you get to leave, just makes more people want to leave!
  • RyanDS 12 Jan 2021 17:06:18 13,673 posts
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    Graxlar_v3 wrote:
    Dgzter wrote:
    Graxlar_v3 wrote:
    I will say, I welcome the SNP's voice in westminister as Scottish issues should be heard. I just wish it wasn't at the expense of having an effective governing body.
    Sorry, I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean here?
    Basically, the fact that without Scotland, we wont have another Labour government sucks. I am not blaming Scotland for that fact, but it is a fact.
    I genuinely don’t understand why the Tories don’t give in on indyref. It is such a win for them, it would guarantee they would hold power forever. If I was them I would grudgingly spin it is the perfidious Scots and labour betraying the uk and then laugh as I went from 80 seat majority to 120 or whatever.
  • Anthony_UK 12 Jan 2021 23:14:39 3,053 posts
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    Reading up on this whole business about the school meal boxes being supplied for people at home and the fallout from them. A brief overview here, but the genuine concern is they're woeful and include bits of cheese wrapped in cling flim or grated cheese in plastic money bags.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55628428

    A 2 minute Google also tells you this was all supplied by Chartwells, a private catering firm which falls under the Compass Group umbrella of companies.

    The CEO Paul Walsh stepped down around a week ago, who had previously apparently donated £10,000 to the Conservative party and was a member of David Cameron's business advisory group.

    Tory's gotta Tory

    Edited by Anthony_UK at 23:18:26 12-01-2021
  • Stuz359 13 Jan 2021 00:07:55 361 posts
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    The Tories entire schtick, at least when it comes to tax cuts, is that we will spend our money more wisely than any government could and they trust us to do so.

    Looking at these 'food' parcels, they maybe should have trusted those instincts.
  • Dougs 13 Jan 2021 07:24:41 97,446 posts
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    Dgzter wrote:
    @Graxlar_v3

    Well, you're certainly right not to blame Scotland. It's the Labour party's responsibility to convince a majority of English voters that they offer a better alternative to the Tories.
    It's not as simple as that, given the FPTP system and how the constituencies are drawn. Much like in the US, Labour could get the majority of votes but still be nowhere near power.
  • DaM 13 Jan 2021 08:23:04 17,595 posts
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    Anthony_UK wrote:

    The CEO Paul Walsh stepped down around a week ago, who had previously apparently donated £10,000 to the Conservative party and was a member of David Cameron's business advisory group.

    These are such pishy amounts for bribes. I'm going to sponsor our local Tories* with cheese and wine for their next fundraiser, hopefully I'll get the Festival of Brexit lanyard order.

    *local Tories aren't that organised, but a few gammons who enrage social media by mistake and resign on rotation.
  • DaM 13 Jan 2021 08:29:36 17,595 posts
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    Dougs wrote:
    Dgzter wrote:
    @Graxlar_v3

    Well, you're certainly right not to blame Scotland. It's the Labour party's responsibility to convince a majority of English voters that they offer a better alternative to the Tories.
    It's not as simple as that, given the FPTP system and how the constituencies are drawn. Much like in the US, Labour could get the majority of votes but still be nowhere near power.
    Ditching FPTP is the only way I'd be convinced that staying in the UK is a good idea. It's just not fit for purpose.
  • Dgzter 13 Jan 2021 08:41:35 3,516 posts
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    Dougs wrote:
    Dgzter wrote:
    @Graxlar_v3

    Well, you're certainly right not to blame Scotland. It's the Labour party's responsibility to convince a majority of English voters that they offer a better alternative to the Tories.
    It's not as simple as that, given the FPTP system and how the constituencies are drawn. Much like in the US, Labour could get the majority of votes but still be nowhere near power.
    Oh, I completely appreciate the inadequacies of our electoral system, Dougs. However, the conversation we were having was whether the Scottish electorate are responsible (and can be 'blamed' for) the political preferences of and democratic decisions made by English voters, which is patently ridiculous as I'm sure you'd agree.

    Now, to be clear, Grax, to whom I was responding, quite clearly stated that he wasn't suggesting that. Rather he was lamenting the fact that we might not see another UK Labour government any time soon, which, in his (and I presume many others') view, can partly be attributed to both left-leaning and more centrist Scottish voters opting for the SNP at Labour's expense. This is, frustratingly from my perspective, a similar narrative that is pushed by a lot of anti-SNP, pro-Union leftists throughout the UK (via MSM and social media etc.), which basically boils down to an expectation that Scottish voters need to yank the iron out of the fire, so to speak, for UK Labour rather than the party itself getting its house in order and convincing larger quantities of English voters that they offer a credible alternative to the Tories. And what a lot of Labour supporters subscribing to this idea apparently fail to realize (not directed at anyone here, btw) is that this only serves to further alienate a huge swathe of Scottish voters, who feel that they're being told to get back in line in order to, in a sense, save England from English voters by a party who are seemingly willing to refuse to acknowledge the democratic will of the Scottish people.
  • tadejpogacar 13 Jan 2021 08:52:07 407 posts
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    Honestly, by this point, just take England, stuff it into a big cannon, and fire it right into space.

    Edited by tadejpogacar at 08:52:16 13-01-2021
  • IRWATWO 13 Jan 2021 09:04:03 949 posts
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    Speaking on behalf of space, I'd like to say keep your pox-ridden shithole cuntry down there and don't pollute the heavens :)
  • askew 13 Jan 2021 09:11:44 22,605 posts
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    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1349126296111116288?s=20

    Rainbow coalition please. Just fucking do it.
  • imamazed 13 Jan 2021 09:18:39 6,551 posts
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    DaM wrote:
    Dougs wrote:
    Dgzter wrote:
    @Graxlar_v3

    Well, you're certainly right not to blame Scotland. It's the Labour party's responsibility to convince a majority of English voters that they offer a better alternative to the Tories.
    It's not as simple as that, given the FPTP system and how the constituencies are drawn. Much like in the US, Labour could get the majority of votes but still be nowhere near power.
    Ditching FPTP is the only way I'd be convinced that staying in the UK is a good idea. It's just not fit for purpose.
    Conversely, a move to a pure form of PR would truly unlock the bigot potential in the UK - along with Euro/National election split there's also a purely electoral reason UKIP made such strides in the European elections and got nowhere in general elections. Too easy to blame FPTP for all our woes. Once you accept the general principal that areas of the country can be out of step with overall consensus you can probably make more meaningful tweaks to our democratic system.

    Edited by imamazed at 09:19:59 13-01-2021
  • Tomo 13 Jan 2021 09:37:32 18,829 posts
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    I'm quite anxious about the two new upcoming news channels NewsUK and GBNews. We're more divided than ever and creating more divisions via the media is concerning - it sounds eerily close to mimicking the US news model. I guess there is a chance they actually turn out to be good, but I'll be very surprised if they're not basically LBC on telly. A nice public forum to get angry and riled up.

    I hope they just disappear into obscurity without any viewers, but there's some serious journalistic chops behind both.
  • askew 13 Jan 2021 09:49:21 22,605 posts
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    GBNews has the ring of a mock national broadcaster which would feature in Children of Men.
  • DaM 13 Jan 2021 09:59:48 17,595 posts
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    imamazed wrote:


    Conversely, a move to a pure form of PR would truly unlock the bigot potential in the UK - along with Euro/National election split there's also a purely electoral reason UKIP made such strides in the European elections and got nowhere in general elections. Too easy to blame FPTP for all our woes. Once you accept the general principal that areas of the country can be out of step with overall consensus you can probably make more meaningful tweaks to our democratic system.
    Yes, that did worry me in the past, the propensity of English people to embrace facism. Before they essentially took over the Tory Party.
  • muddyyfunster 13 Jan 2021 11:57:35 804 posts
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    https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford/status/1349310804064137218?s=20

    A footballer is essentially this Government's most effective opposition, and I say that as someone who thinks Starmer has done pretty well since taking over.

    Full credit to Mr Rashford, he absolutely represents the best of us, but the fact he can achieve more as a footballer, says so much about the state of media reporting in this country. Clearly, when he amplifies an issue the PM feels obliged to respond.
  • Psychotext 13 Jan 2021 12:24:28 69,155 posts
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    The state of this shit from Hancock. Peak Tory.

    https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1349280495914393600

    muddyyfunster wrote:
    https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford/status/1349310804064137218?s=20
    Ha... you could read the PM's comment as him FUCKING HATING the fact that they've been shown up on Twitter over this. :D

    Edited by Psychotext at 12:25:25 13-01-2021
  • tadejpogacar 13 Jan 2021 12:34:41 407 posts
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    LOL owned:

    Starmer turns to food parcels. Why should anyone be happy with what’s being provided?

    Johnson says he is not happy with them. He thanks Marcus Rashford for highlighting the problem. He claim Rashford is doing a better job at holding him to account than Starmer.


    Edited by tadejpogacar at 12:35:39 13-01-2021
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 13 Jan 2021 12:38:15 16,065 posts
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    PM says Rashford is doing better job at holding govt to account than Labour

    https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1349329038649778179?s=20

    So is this an admission that his govt is a shitshow by the PM?
  • Tomo 13 Jan 2021 12:39:34 18,829 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    The state of this shit from Hancock. Peak Tory.

    https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1349280495914393600

    This is absolutely toe-curling. It's like Paxman-Howard all over again :x
  • Tomo 13 Jan 2021 12:42:44 18,829 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    PM says Rashford is doing better job at holding govt to account than Labour

    https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1349329038649778179?s=20

    So is this an admission that his govt is a shitshow by the PM?
    Really stupid diversion tactic. Bring it back to political point-scoring to whip up the voter base and completely sidestep the point of all of this.

    Also, Starmer has been pretty restrained this year I think. Given the gov a lot of leeway due to the challenge they're facing. This is basically an invitation for Labour to lay into the government properly.

    Such morons. Suchhhh morons.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 13 Jan 2021 12:45:01 16,065 posts
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    Between Brexit and now Covid it feels like we’ve had an opposition who’ve largely backed the government on a macro level on the big issues for about 5 years
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