UK Politics Thread Page 111

  • You-can-call-me-kal 15 May 2019 10:40:33 15,324 posts
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    Labour suddenly trying to change the narrative around this whole thing from ‘there’s no antisemitism in the party and it’s a right wing Zionist conspiracy by money hoarders afraid of paying more tax’ to ‘actually there is a big problem but it’s Tony Blair’s fault’.

    The shit storm is about to come raining down on these racist cunts.

    Edited by You-can-call-me-kal at 10:40:55 15-05-2019
  • nudistpete 15 May 2019 10:54:43 638 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    The shit storm is about to come raining down on these racist cunts.
    I'll believe it when I see it. This has been rumbling on for three/four years now and nothing has happened, I don't even think there is genuine outrage from the voting public - it's like we just expect it from the hard left and hard right.
  • TechnoHippy 15 May 2019 11:08:18 14,879 posts
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    You'd need to lose most of the current leadership to make any real difference, and I can't see that happening any time soon.
  • nickthegun 15 May 2019 11:10:26 77,543 posts
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    I made the mistake of commenting on a video critiquing a Megan McCain interview on Seth Meyers.

    She is now the self appointed expert on what is and what isn't anti-semetism because she has jewish friends and spent most of the clip talking out of her crease but she did mention 'I don't want our politics to get like britains where anti-semetism is rife'.


    In the comments there was the classic 'stick to your own country, what do you know?' to which I responded 'as dumb as she is, its rife in left wing politics thanks to, among other things, jew world order crackpots'.


    Cue the cultists raining down every possible 'its a right wing smear' cliché imaginable.


    But there wont be a shit storm. The right don't care because they are arseholes and enough of the left seem to either believe it or hand wave it away as smear tactics. The people who give a crap seem to be very much in the minority.
  • Graxlar_v3 15 May 2019 11:14:57 6,523 posts
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    nickthegun wrote:
    I made the mistake of commenting on a video critiquing a Megan McCain interview on Seth Meyers.

    She is now the self appointed expert on what is and what isn't anti-semetism because she has jewish friends and spent most of the clip talking out of her crease but she did mention 'I don't want our politics to get like britains where anti-semetism is rife'.


    In the comments there was the classic 'stick to your own country, what do you know?' to which I responded 'as dumb as she is, its rife in left wing politics thanks to, among other things, jew world order crackpots'.


    Cue the cultists raining down every possible 'its a right wing smear' cliché imaginable.


    But there wont be a shit storm. The right don't care because they are arseholes and enough of the left seem to either believe it or hand wave it away as smear tactics. The people who give a crap seem to be very much in the minority.
    The right don't care because they are too busy being racist to everyone else.
  • nickthegun 15 May 2019 11:16:05 77,543 posts
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    Exactly. Why would they give a fuck? I expect most tory voters would be more annoyed that they aren't smearing muslims, too.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 15 May 2019 11:23:33 15,324 posts
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    The shit storm I’m referring to is the 100,000 leaked emails demonstrating the extent of the Labour coverup that Private Eye have, as well as the EHRC investigation that has access to Corbyn’s WhatsApp group, and the power to override the NDA those that left the party in disgust signed.
  • nudistpete 15 May 2019 11:27:11 638 posts
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    So what do you think will be the outcome of the shitstorm apart from a few more headlines that get added to the broadsheets, continued apathy from the voting public and some more nice words from Jezza?
  • Graxlar_v3 15 May 2019 11:30:29 6,523 posts
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    nudistpete wrote:
    So what do you think will be the outcome of the shitstorm apart from a few more headlines that get added to the broadsheets, continued apathy from the voting public and some more nice words from Jezza?
    EHRC investigation will give them a slap on the wrist and a fine and any remaining respect for Chakrabarti (not that she had much recently anyway) will go vanish.

    The problem is, the Labour party is the JC party right now and the members will not allow any moves against him. The less radicalised MP's have already sold their soul in order to 'maintain the peace' and nothing will change.
  • nudistpete 15 May 2019 11:33:06 638 posts
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    I think you're on the money Graxlar_v3.

    I'd love to believe that someone will be held accountable, but as I said in my earlier post - we all kind of expect this behaviour from the hard left/right loons.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 15 May 2019 11:35:02 15,324 posts
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    My perhaps naive hope is the remaining silently complicit Corbyn supporters that have turned a blind eye to his racism out of convenience, will finally cease to support him, and Labour can get a new leader who can begin the long journey of undoing the damage he’s done.
  • JamboWayOh 15 May 2019 11:52:25 12,739 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    My perhaps naive hope is the remaining silently complicit Corbyn supporters that have turned a blind eye to his racism out of convenience, will finally cease to support him, and Labour can get a new leader who can begin the long journey of undoing the damage he’s done.
    It's very hopeful to think that but past knowledge can predicate the future which says that fuck all will be done and the cult will continue unabated happy in their ignorance that the problem has been solved.
  • Psychotext 15 May 2019 12:19:33 64,944 posts
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    Looks like the Tories don't want to be left behind on the "it's OK to be prejudiced on certain religions" thing.

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1128593720511741952
  • JamboWayOh 15 May 2019 12:24:55 12,739 posts
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    It's interesting how we're moving towards that American interpretation of religious liberty and freedom for all*

    *Christianity ONLY
  • You-can-call-me-kal 15 May 2019 13:32:14 15,324 posts
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    Pay rises for key Labour figures despite the ongoing dispute

    https://twitter.com/andrewspoooner/status/1125811219246354432?s=21
  • nudistpete 15 May 2019 14:07:19 638 posts
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    Psychotext wrote:
    Looks like the Tories don't want to be left behind on the "it's OK to be prejudiced on certain religions" thing.
    I feel conflicted about that. We should be free to criticise religion without being racist, and we should be able to criticise religious people for their shitty actions even if it's deemed moral within their religious framework.

    I want people to be accountable for being shitty to others by using hate speech, but feel uncomfortable that religious criticism is immediately deemed as hate speech.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 15 May 2019 14:12:26 15,324 posts
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    It’s not saying religious criticism is immediately deemed as hate speech though.
  • nudistpete 15 May 2019 14:21:01 638 posts
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    The working definition cited on all the news articles is "Islamophobia is rooted in racism and is a type of racism that targets expressions of Muslimness or perceived Muslimness."

    It's a pretty wide definition and the "rooted in racism" part is exceptionally hard to prove.
  • TechnoHippy 15 May 2019 14:29:17 14,879 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    Pay rises for key Labour figures despite the ongoing dispute

    https://twitter.com/andrewspoooner/status/1125811219246354432?s=21
    As usual the comments illustrate why our country is becoming a hell hole.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 15 May 2019 15:07:10 15,324 posts
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    nudistpete wrote:
    The working definition cited on all the news articles is "Islamophobia is rooted in racism and is a type of racism that targets expressions of Muslimness or perceived Muslimness."

    It's a pretty wide definition and the "rooted in racism" part is exceptionally hard to prove.
    But being critical of Islam is not Islamophobia. Which was your issue.

    I have no issue personally with the statement that Islamophobia is rooted in racism. It is.
  • nudistpete 15 May 2019 15:21:20 638 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    But being critical of Islam is not Islamophobia. Which was your issue.
    The way it's written slapping up a list of "Top 20 reasons Islam is bad" is Islamophobia it it's done on Tommy Robinson's social media, but potentially OK elsewhere based on intent.

    The problem is it's near impossible to prove the intent.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 15 May 2019 15:30:32 15,324 posts
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    I’m really not understanding your issue. Sorry. Again they’re NOT saying criticising Islam is Islamophobia. Which is what you seem to be suggesting the APPG definition does.

    There’s a very comprehensive thread here:

    https://twitter.com/miqdaad/status/1128559097228550144?s=21

    Edited by You-can-call-me-kal at 15:31:12 15-05-2019
  • X201 16 May 2019 06:14:36 19,181 posts
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    Just how useless does Chris Grayling have to be to get the boot?


    Another £500 million
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48288433

    Edited by X201 at 06:15:03 16-05-2019
  • You-can-call-me-kal 16 May 2019 07:51:10 15,324 posts
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    This is amazing. Labour have invited Glyn Secker who is currently under investigation for antisemitism, to do their antisemitism training.

    Is it possible they think the point is to train members how to be more antisemetic?

    https://twitter.com/labouragainstas/status/1128904556279160832?s=21

    At what point do they hold their hands up and concede they have no idea how to deal with this issue, and hand over responsibility to those that do? Engage with independent bodies. Engage with JLM. Engage with the core Jewish community that represent 90% of Jews in this country. Stay away from the fringe extremists. The more they try and ‘solve’ this from within their own nasty little bubble the worse they make it.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 16 May 2019 08:05:25 10,050 posts
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    X201 wrote:
    Just how useless does Chris Grayling have to be to get the boot?

    Another £500 million
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48288433
    His survival in the cabinet is proof of nothing if not the weakness of this government. If they had any authority or security in their position he'd be gone.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 16 May 2019 08:07:16 10,050 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    This is amazing. Labour have invited Glyn Secker who is currently under investigation for antisemitism, to do their antisemitism training.

    Is it possible they think the point is to train members how to be more antisemetic?

    https://twitter.com/labouragainstas/status/1128904556279160832?s=21

    At what point do they hold their hands up and concede they have no idea how to deal with this issue, and hand over responsibility to those that do? Engage with independent bodies. Engage with JLM. Engage with the core Jewish community that represent 90% of Jews in this country. Stay away from the fringe extremists. The more they try and ‘solve’ this from within their own nasty little bubble the worse they make it.
    And place their friends / "the movement" at risk of being held to account and called out?
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 16 May 2019 08:27:31 10,050 posts
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    I know it's bandwagon jumping but I guess it's good if Labour are serious on following through on the Green policies they've adopted recently

    I suspect it's another case of the membership being ahead of the leadership and driving them

    That the party supports the opening of new deep and opencast mining and those mines actually happening is more impactful than talking about solar panels on BBC Breakfast

    But then talking a good game while taking negative actions has been a hallmark of the party recently

    Edited by simpleexplodingmaybe at 08:28:12 16-05-2019
  • RGeefe 16 May 2019 08:37:31 284 posts
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    Just looking at the content of the article I have several streams of thought in my head.

    1 - how can we separate the issue that Palastine is getting routinely fucked over by not just Israel but the west in general, from "all Jews are bad"? I definitely think it has to be more of a political framing than religious.

    2 - how that bloke is secretary for a Jewish Labour group is beyond me. How a group about Jews can have like...no Jews is even further beyond me.

    In general I just think Corbyn and the entire top of the Labour party needs to go. If a GE was called tomorrow I think Tories would just shade it with a minority govt or a hung parliament and they'd take on Change.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 16 May 2019 08:46:34 10,050 posts
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    'Loyalty not principle' is the guiding light of the ideologically fossilised old red left
  • You-can-call-me-kal 16 May 2019 10:05:24 15,324 posts
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    RGeefe wrote:
    how can we separate the issue that Palastine is getting routinely fucked over by not just Israel but the west in general, from "all Jews are bad"? I definitely think it has to be more of a political framing than religious.
    The hard antisemetic left are creating a lot of confusion around this issue, but it’s not that complicated.

    Many if not most Jews believe in the Palestinian cause. If fact many if not most Zionists believe in the Palestinian cause. There is no incompatibility between these principles. Anyone who believes in a two state solution - which is most Palestinians and most Israelis (and even in fact Netanyahu) - are taking both a pro-Palestinian and Zionist position.

    Where the confusion comes in is that many on the pro-Palestinian side have conflated the notion of Zionism with that of wiping out the Palestinians altogether. This is easily done because of Netanyahu and the Israeli right’s expansion into occupied territory. Through that lens you can talk about Zionism being a racist genocidal expansionist ideology, and then you’re permitted to say whatever you like about Zionists - call them rats, compare them to Nazis etc. But the truth is being anti-Zionist in the context of being pro-Palestinian is generally antisemetic, because if you are arguing for the right for the Palestinian people to self-determine, but denying that same right to the Jewish people, then that’s a racial double-standard. Which is racist.

    You’re absolutely correct that the trick is to frame it all politically. Talk about Netanyahu and his actions. We have no problem doing this with Assad, Putin, Trump, even May, without resorting to mass racist generalisations. Why is it so tricky when it comes to Israel?
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