UK Politics Thread Page 243

  • JamboWayOh 16 Jul 2019 21:05:58 14,230 posts
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    Hahahah MP of the year. I'm not sure what's more hilarious, this or Trump and his cronies saying he isn't racist. Truly we are in the upside down world.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 16 Jul 2019 21:14:03 10,808 posts
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    I know it's the least of the problems there is with him but the fan art in the comments is really weird to me
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 18 Jul 2019 07:06:19 10,808 posts
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    This feels a profoundly unhelpful thing to have said. Although once again criticising the leader receives such swifter action than being an actual racist.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/17/labour-shadow-brexit-minister-sacked-over-corbyn-comments
  • KnuttinAtoll 18 Jul 2019 08:27:51 7,351 posts
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    Watched Jeremy Chunt on BBC earlier explicitly refusing to answer the question whether he considers Trump's comments racist, reason being he is responsible for the transatlantic relationship as foreign minister.

    That special relationship... Not between friends, but servant and master. Absolutely pathetic weak sauce stuff.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 18 Jul 2019 08:33:20 6,159 posts
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    @simpleexplodingmaybe People have thrown the Hitler-bunker thing at PMs before - Brown and May both were on the receiving end of it (and Brown coincided with the peaking of the Downfall-subtitles meme). Neither of them made the kind of flappy fuss about it that Corbyn has. One might almost suspect that an antisemite backed by a thuggist street movement was nervous about Hitler comparisons.

    For reference, the oldest of the (many) Gordon Brown downfall videos I could find.
  • Frogofdoom 18 Jul 2019 08:36:11 13,681 posts
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    @KnuttinAtoll brexiteers wont care about being lorded over by the US because they speak English and have an openly racist leader.
  • nickthegun 18 Jul 2019 08:43:01 78,318 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    This feels a profoundly unhelpful thing to have said. Although once again criticising the leader receives such swifter action than being an actual racist.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/17/labour-shadow-brexit-minister-sacked-over-corbyn-comments
    I dunno. It's very on the nose but actually quite appropriate and certainly something needs saying
  • KnuttinAtoll 18 Jul 2019 08:52:05 7,351 posts
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    @Frogofdoom suppose the relationship was never any different but the partner has changed for the worse.

    It's still astounding how two major western "safe pairs of hands" have broken bad in such a short timeframe. Just goes to show you can't take anything for granted, and I wouldn't be surprised if we have another major war on our hands within the next 20 years. Desperately hoping I'm wrong on this.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 18 Jul 2019 09:31:46 10,808 posts
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    I don't think the Corbyn bunker thing is wholly inaccurate but given all the "bad faith actor" chat from Higgys and Williamsons of the world I just think it'll give the apologists another opportunity to cry smear in a way which doesn't move things on for anybody
  • nickthegun 18 Jul 2019 09:40:42 78,318 posts
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    I'm not sure pandering is the best way to deal with this
  • JamboWayOh 18 Jul 2019 09:50:19 14,230 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    This feels a profoundly unhelpful thing to have said. Although once again criticising the leader receives such swifter action than being an actual racist.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/17/labour-shadow-brexit-minister-sacked-over-corbyn-comments
    She criticised the leader and for some reason that means she also insulted Jews and we must remember that his inner circle are big fans of Jewish people and will do anything to make sure that no one ever denigrates Jewish people.

    Seriously though, they're taking the piss yeah?
  • disusedgenius 18 Jul 2019 09:59:12 9,943 posts
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    I was going to say that I can see the logic of not wanting someone calling you Hitler on your core team. But reading her comments they're pretty soft.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 18 Jul 2019 10:17:08 10,808 posts
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    I'm not sure choosing more effective language is necessarily pandering.

    And yes the leaders representatives are absolutely concern trolling by saying this might upset Jewish people.
  • FWB 18 Jul 2019 10:45:08 56,156 posts
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    There was nothing anti-Semitic about what she said. In fact, I'd say the narrative that it is is pretty damn low and demeans the actual term anti-Semitism. But then I expect no less from this Labour leadership.

    Edited by FWB at 10:49:28 18-07-2019
  • You-can-call-me-kal 18 Jul 2019 20:04:45 16,412 posts
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    Generally Iíd say itís probably best to avoid the language, and itís hard to believe she didnít say it with at least the tiniest nod to the antisemetism issue and all the implications of that comparison, which is a bit naughty.

    But to instantly dismiss her for it (and to tell Skwawkbox who announced it before she knew) is disgraceful. And yet again Corbyn has taken far far swifter and more decisive action against those who attack him, than those who attack Jews.

    Itís worth noting that for many years Corbyn has fought against the IHRA definition of antisemetism specifically because it does not allow for comparisons with the Nazis. So the double standard/lack of self awareness here is astonishing and deeply hypocritical.

    Itís also amazing to see the party line that the reason she has been dismissed, is because what she said was offensive to Jews!! Owen Jones has in fact managed to spin it so that she was in fact directly criticising the (3 remaining) Jews working for Corbyn. This is ninja level gaslighting. I honestly couldnít believe what I was reading.

    Itís fairly clear at this point that Corbyn, like Trump, is now accepting the fact that there is no persuading those that believe him to be racist that he is not, so he may as well double down and appeal even more to those that are also racist.

    Edited by You-can-call-me-kal at 20:06:12 18-07-2019
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 18 Jul 2019 20:29:01 10,808 posts
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    The gaslighting and concern trolling and disingenuousness is really next level among the outriders at the moment which is saying something.

    Stuff that would've been kept at Skwawkbox level is now coming from the more mainstream voices like Jones. It's only going to get so much worse once Boris is coronated as Tory leader and PM.
  • You-can-call-me-kal 18 Jul 2019 21:16:21 16,412 posts
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    Itís conceivable we could have four PMs this year. May replaced by Boris. Boris loses GE to Corbyn. Corbyn forced to resign following EHRC investigation.
  • Mr_Sleep 18 Jul 2019 21:22:14 22,736 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    This feels a profoundly unhelpful thing to have said. Although once again criticising the leader receives such swifter action than being an actual racist.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/17/labour-shadow-brexit-minister-sacked-over-corbyn-comments
    Can anyone name a better and more famous example of a leader hiding out, surrounded by their closest allies? I cannot. It is a completely fair comparison and she does not compare Corbyn to Hitler directly as the spokesperson suggests.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 18 Jul 2019 21:50:07 10,808 posts
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    You-can-call-me-kal wrote:
    Itís conceivable we could have four PMs this year. May replaced by Boris. Boris loses GE to Corbyn. Corbyn forced to resign following EHRC investigation.
    I'm not sure the EHRC would be enough at this point. They've been laying the ground to put up the walls and turn their base against any negative outcome. They're not going to "accept" any recommendation more serious than 'could act faster'
  • Decks Best Forumite, 2016 18 Jul 2019 22:03:43 20,393 posts
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    There's absolutely zero chance of labour winning a GE with Corbyn as leader.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 18 Jul 2019 22:14:03 10,808 posts
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    Given Boris celebrity and the Lib Dem comeback, SNP strength and the party being a toxic waste dump I wouldn't be shocked if they fell further behind the Tories. And lost some in embarrassingly high-profile places.
  • disusedgenius 18 Jul 2019 23:30:22 9,943 posts
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    If you believe the poll trackers they aren't behind the Tories, they're on average a few points ahead. Not enough to have a majority government either, mind.
  • simpleexplodingmaybe 18 Jul 2019 23:35:24 10,808 posts
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    To win they need to be significantly ahead of the Tories 10+ and they need the SNP to go into full collapse as the Labour Party can't win power on English seats alone (whereas the Tories can and do).
  • Armoured_Bear 18 Jul 2019 23:40:02 27,192 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    To win they need to be significantly ahead of the Tories 10+ and they need the SNP to go into full collapse
    Unlikely given the state of Scottish Labour.
  • disusedgenius 18 Jul 2019 23:51:11 9,943 posts
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    simpleexplodingmaybe wrote:
    To win they need to be significantly ahead of the Tories 10+ and they need the SNP to go into full collapse as the Labour Party can't win power on English seats alone (whereas the Tories can and do).
    I mean sure, but lets face it - no one is outright winning an election for the foreseeable future.
  • FWB 19 Jul 2019 11:03:04 56,156 posts
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    https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1152131521081487360?s=19

    See the comments.

    Nice one, JC. Nice one.
  • Robospud 19 Jul 2019 11:03:19 63 posts
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    Surely a Labour - SNP coalition would make total sense as they're aligned on many policies, and the numbers make it look likely too. Sturgeon has stated she's open to the idea, and Corbyn hasn't ruled it out the way Miliband did.
  • challenge_hanukkah 19 Jul 2019 11:26:16 11,044 posts
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    Corbyn is deliberately trolling now, surely? No one is that fucking stupid.
  • RobAnybody 19 Jul 2019 11:33:50 1,744 posts
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    Very relevant: US vs UK Healthcare. Which would save you? Facts vs Fear

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSL3z55cT_c
  • FWB 19 Jul 2019 11:42:00 56,156 posts
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    challenge_hanukkah wrote:
    Corbyn is deliberately trolling now, surely? No one is that fucking stupid.
    I really think he is. But then I suspect he doesn't make these choices or actually tweet.
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