Pokémon Sword and Shield Page 2

  • Derblington 6 Nov 2019 16:48:02 33,149 posts
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    Graxlar_v3 wrote:
    It was getting ridiculous anyway, at least this way you don't need to buy 9 games to get an entire pokedex.
    You never needed to unless you wanted to. For those that like this aspect, that have played every game to do so, I can see this being a massive kick in the face.
    And it's pretty obvious it's to support a paid service.
  • Graxlar_v3 6 Nov 2019 16:57:14 10,041 posts
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    Derblington wrote:
    Graxlar_v3 wrote:
    It was getting ridiculous anyway, at least this way you don't need to buy 9 games to get an entire pokedex.
    You never needed to unless you wanted to. For those that like this aspect, that have played every game to do so, I can see this being a massive kick in the face.
    And it's pretty obvious it's to support a paid service.
    support a paid service???

    I think thats bullshit, I would not expect them to reimagine over 1,000+ pokemon because you couldnt just carry over the same sprites this time around is unfair and pretty petty.

    Its not like they are taking away access to these pokemon, they are just saying they will not be carried over.

    Also support a paid service???, if they were doing it to support a paid service they would have brought the pokemon over, otherwise the pokemon banks are going to be dropped.

    Edited by Graxlar_v3 at 16:58:00 06-11-2019
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 6 Nov 2019 17:04:30 8,695 posts
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    Yeah, I'm not seeing the "paid service" thing. They've got a game series which has been developed for a series of low-powered handhelds with incredibly low-resolution screens and now they're making a version of it for more powerful hybrid hardware, which may well be rendering at 1080p in docked mode. For decades, Pokemon have been either two static images (one front, one rear) or an incredibly basic 3d model for the more recent 3DS games. The character models and animations on Switch are way more advanced. No wonder they couldn't get a thousand or so of them ready for launch.

    I'm not somebody who is prone to going easy on Nintendo (who I think get an incredibly easy ride from the gaming press), but in this case, I think the obvious "too much work/too little time" explanation is the right one, rather than anything more sinister.
  • Ror 6 Nov 2019 17:07:51 20,096 posts
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    Oh my god, DFawkes posted. I thought Al bumped him off.
  • Duffking 6 Nov 2019 17:16:40 16,599 posts
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    I'm pretty sure the models used on the Switch games are the same as the 3DS ones. They claimed they're not, but looking at the same by side they almost certainly the same ones. Presumably what's happened is the engine upgrades have rendered them unusable without re-rigging and UVing them and re-authoring the animations etc and they don't want to do the whole lot. It's probably just easier for them to say the models are new than go through exactly why they can't just use them as-is.

    I'm still looking forward to this, I never bothered to catch them all anyway but it is a shame they haven't put them all in. Especially since they didn't really do better quality animations in the process.

    Edited by Duffking at 17:20:31 06-11-2019
  • Derblington 6 Nov 2019 17:20:52 33,149 posts
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    No-one expected all of them to be carried over, but the cuts are pretty severe. There's a reason there's a ton of negativity around this. And the reasons given are seemingly untrue (new models, as Duffking mentioned, and some other stuff).

    And Pokémon Home is expected to be a subscription service, yeah.

    As I've said, this really isn't the part of the game that interests me, but it is what it is.

    Edited by Derblington at 17:23:17 06-11-2019
  • Graxlar_v3 6 Nov 2019 17:23:06 10,041 posts
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    @Duffking The pokemon are all out in the wild now, so it would have involved some more animation work than a sprite/3d model.

    Also, there are all the additional moves they would have had to animate effects for. And surely having 400 pokemon to catch for your pokedex is better than having a pokdex 70% complete from the get go.

    I will miss some of the pokemon they have dropped RIP dragonite . But at least this is a clean slate for everyone.
  • Graxlar_v3 6 Nov 2019 17:23:51 10,041 posts
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    Derblington wrote:
    No-one expected all of them to be carried over, but the cuts are pretty severe. There's a reason there's a ton of negativity around this. And the reasons given are seemingly untrue (new models, as Duffking mentioned, and some other stuff).

    And Pokémon Home is expected to be a subscription service, yeah.

    As I've said, this really isn't the part of the game that interests me, but it is what it is.
    Yeah, the reason is the internet is bad!

    Also pokemon home is just a replacement for pokemon bank (which has been available for years)

    Also Also, how would dropping 600 pokemon from the pokedex be a money making thing? None of the other pokemon games had the full pokedex btw, the pokemon were just brought forward from other games using trading or the pokemon bank. Surely then, if it was a money thing they would have just kept it as is?

    Edited by Graxlar_v3 at 17:27:02 06-11-2019
  • Duffking 6 Nov 2019 17:31:01 16,599 posts
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    Well that's what I'm saying, really. They do already have all the models at a high enough quality, but they probably needed to re-rig, re-UV, redo the materials, and re-author the animations across the baord for every single one. Which would take nearly as long as doing all the models from scratch. They've claimed they're using new models, which doesn't appear to actually be true, but what they have had to do is almost as time consuming as doing that.

    On the anims front, most moves aren't really animated are they? They still just slide across the floor and back again don't they? Not a lot you can do about that I guess though as I doubt many mons can share the same rigs so you'd have to do hundreds of variations of the same animation. It's a shame there aren't more unique flourishes per monster though.

    The bigger issue is offering a paid for pokemon transfer service then having your flagship game not actually support it >_< Luckily I don't really care about catching them all.

    Edited by Duffking at 17:32:15 06-11-2019
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 11 Nov 2019 20:11:38 8,695 posts
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    Some reports indicating the review embargo lifts at 1PM UK time tomorrow. Expecting this to score well, even discounting the usual review-score boost that Nintendo exclusives benefit from. Everything they've shown of the game so far looks really good (even with the odd marketing mis-step like that live-stream). Just a pity that a vocal minority shouting about the whole dex issue look set to dominate the launch narrative.
  • Graxlar_v3 11 Nov 2019 20:15:31 10,041 posts
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    It’s leaked to hackers. A ‘friend’ of mine posted screenshots until I threatened to block his number if he carried on.
  • ChiefGB 11 Nov 2019 20:40:22 12,492 posts
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    Addddyyyyy!!!!!!!! Time to take one for the team.
  • Derblington 13 Nov 2019 09:31:22 33,149 posts
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    https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/dv438w/complete_list_of_all_problems_known_so_far_in/
  • Graxlar_v3 13 Nov 2019 10:59:30 10,041 posts
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    Derblington wrote:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/dv438w/complete_list_of_all_problems_known_so_far_in/
    Right now, it looks like the Pokemon community is at its most toxic. I am not saying the issues are not valid (I imagine they are when you consider them in isolation).

    I will also say, if you are looking at the game as a Pokemon game, you will not be disappointed. If you want it to be more than it has been before, there may be some resentment.
  • Malek86 13 Nov 2019 11:12:25 10,093 posts
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    As far as I know, Game Freak has always been pretty bad at graphics in general? I don't know why people expected any better this time, in fact I imagine the jump to HD development must have been a nightmare for them.

    Though I don't understand why Nintendo can't get some external developer to help. They have been cooperating with companies like Sega and namco a lot more lately.
  • Derblington 13 Nov 2019 11:33:23 33,149 posts
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    Graxlar_v3 wrote:
    Right now, it looks like the Pokemon community is at its most toxic. I am not saying the issues are not valid (I imagine they are when you consider them in isolation).

    I will also say, if you are looking at the game as a Pokemon game, you will not be disappointed. If you want it to be more than it has been before, there may be some resentment.
    Ha!
    I was randomly just clicking a thread and this was the first post I read:
    "People criticizing the game get called toxic no matter what they say or how they frame their complaints."

    I don't know. I'm not part of it, and I'm only really dipping in because a mate of mine is so into it, and he's really unhappy about the way this one is shaping up (unfortunately he pre-ordered and Nintendo won't let him cancel).

    But he shares some of your sentiment:
    "Someone on reddit compared the development of this game to BoTW, Mario O, Smash, Fire Emblem and that they have received one of the best versions of their franchise on the Switch. Where as this is looking like one of the worst
    and comparing to Smash which every time you heard something about it pre-release it was the developers adding more and more content, more characters, more stages, without removing anything.
    I think it will be a good or at least decent stand alone game
    but as part of the franchise its disappointing."

    Edited by Derblington at 11:35:32 13-11-2019
  • Malek86 13 Nov 2019 11:44:49 10,093 posts
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    From all I've seen and heard about it, not for myself as I haven't played a Pokemon game ever, but from friends... I'd say it doesn't warrant all the vitriol aimed at the developers, though admittedly, nothing would.

    But yes, it does look like people who expected the "definitive" experience, like SSBU and MK8D were for their respective franchises, might be disappointed.

    But then again, isn't that a bit unfair? Both of those games started as up-rezzed Wii U ports, so of course the amount of work required couldn't have been nearly as much as that for making a big HD game from scratch.
  • Graxlar_v3 13 Nov 2019 11:46:55 10,041 posts
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    It isn't that there are valid complaints, I have looked at what people are complaining about and I can see where they are coming from.

    However, every complaint has just become a pile on where it almost seems like a competition to see who can be the worst.

    Again, i haven't played the game and the question some design decisions (can't capture some pokemon until you get a badge) that i have heard of. But there is room for positivity and excitement alongside the negativity.
  • nickthegun 13 Nov 2019 11:47:33 81,772 posts
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    You look at that reddit thread and then look at someone like my daughter who is genuinely more excited for this Friday than she is about Christmas and realise some people need an adjustment.

    Shes been watching leak videos all week and couldn't care less about 'dexit' because there were already too many to keep track of and 'most of them were stupid anyway'.
  • DFawkes Friendliest Forumite, 2016 13 Nov 2019 12:26:23 32,463 posts
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    I wasn't all that fussy to the point I wasn't going to bother, but having started reading up on it this morning, I'm actually quite interested. I actually prefer a smaller, more focused set of Pokemon and moves (which is why enjoyed Lets Go so much) and a shorter core game.

    I do get why some people are disappointed, but I honestly just want more Pokemon. It has been a few years since I played one of the core games and it looks like all the bits I enjoy are still in the game. I really should finish what I'm playing just now, but surely Geralt won't mind me letting him have a break ;)
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 13 Nov 2019 12:58:48 8,695 posts
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    Normally, "entitled gamers" narratives piss me off. I'm an old-fashioned type who thinks that companies should listen to their customers and that the press should ideally side with consumers, not against them.

    But Jesus Christ that reddit thread...

    I think the point that stands out to me here is just how much the people in their with sand up their arse about Sw&Sh are not the main demographic for these games.
  • Duffking 13 Nov 2019 13:11:35 16,599 posts
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    I'm not sure if the game's going to be very good, but on the plus side let's all laugh at this moron

  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 13 Nov 2019 13:20:08 8,695 posts
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    Also, another bit that puzzles me... from what I can see, those who are most upset about the dex thing are the "hardcore" - who presumably play this stuff competitively and whatnot.

    Surely, from their point of view, 95% of the legacy dex was irrelevant anyway? I am in no way close to the competitive Pokemon scene, but I'd understood that only a few dozen Pokemon were actually viable for competitive play. The idea that any competitive game is going to properly balance 1000+ units is ridiculous. If you look at other genres (e.g. Overwatch, DotA2, LoL, fighting games), keeping a couple of dozen balanced seems to be about as much as any developer can reasonably aim for.
  • Derblington 13 Nov 2019 13:24:42 33,149 posts
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    Dropping half of them just makes it more unbalanced tho - they still exist and are going to be brought forward later. This is still just addition even with them missing from this title.
    The problem is more about losing pokémon that are favourites/part of teams that people have invested decades in.

    Reviews go live in 40 mins.
  • Malek86 13 Nov 2019 13:24:51 10,093 posts
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    I've seen that argument a lot, and not just for Pokemon, but for just about every game with tons of "options", so to speak. Case in point: I'm not sure any Forza or GT game actually needs 400+ cars, since you will use maybe 30 throughout the whole game.

    So I dunno. Maybe they want the extra longevity? I suppose buying all the cars in Forza is one extra reason to keep playing. So would be the idea of catching them all, I guess.

    Still seems pretty pointless, because I'm not sure that playing a game just to grind a library becomes all that fun after a while...
  • Duffking 13 Nov 2019 13:28:12 16,599 posts
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    I think it's a case of every other game having them all, and then one which doesn't and also has various other missing features sticking out as a result. I'm sure most won't get them all but it sucks for people who won't be able to have their favourite in the game when they could in every other game.

    Current rumour going round is that the reason they aren't in the game (given that they are with 99.9% certainty the same models) is that apparently there was some kind of internal issue with their tools that caused them to need to do a whole load of extra work to get them in.
  • RawShark 13 Nov 2019 13:28:39 1,188 posts
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    Duffking wrote:
    I'm not sure if the game's going to be very good, but on the plus side let's all laugh at this moron

    I don't have a twitter account, so could someone who has please tell this twat to fuck off and die on my behalf?
  • Deleted user 13 November 2019 14:03:16
    Review on the front page
  • rice_sandwich 13 Nov 2019 14:08:29 6,436 posts
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    Seems about right. I've long had the impression that the game has been rushed, ever since they were basically forced to announce that they are in fact making a new game for the Switch.
  • Malek86 13 Nov 2019 14:10:52 10,093 posts
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    Worse than Halo?
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