Borderlands 3 Page 27

  • bone-on 17 Oct 2019 21:29:20 543 posts
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    @crashVoodoo

    I just remember holding onto some guns a lot longer in Borderlands 2.

    If anything this one throws too many at you.
  • DrStrangelove 17 Oct 2019 22:42:19 15,207 posts
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    bone-on wrote:
    @crashVoodoo

    I just remember holding onto some guns a lot longer in Borderlands 2.
    20 levels? Surely only with a Bee or some other combination/exploit? I mean, you could play even OP10 with a level 90 Bee and a level 28 Lady Fist or Sand Hawk, but any gun on its own?

    Actually, by the numbers stuff decayed faster in BL2 than in 3. When comparing different levels of the same item, in BL3 a 20 levels old gun does 18% the damage of a new one, in BL2 it was only 9%. Which should render anything useless unless used with a Bee or something.

    If anything this one throws too many at you.
    Certainly does in Mayhem, in TVHM I don't get this feeling. Just today I played a little Mayhem 1 (normal) and the loot was silly already, with most items being blue or higher. Coming from regular TVHM the difference was so big it felt like cheating.
  • crashVoodoo 17 Oct 2019 22:56:10 6,680 posts
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    I noticed that last night as well. Running around and epics were dropping out like crazy from all the badasses
  • DrStrangelove 17 Oct 2019 23:36:52 15,207 posts
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    I was looking forward to Mayhem actually, thought it was a nice idea. But tbh I think it's the worst part of the game. I hate how the random modifiers mess up balance and builds, and even on Mayhem 1 I find the loot over the top.

    I mean, blue is tagged "rare". In non-Mayhem it's like it used to be, finding a good blue can actually make you happy. A good purple ("epic") can make you very happy, and a good legendary is bliss. Mayhem just throws everything at you like it's nothing, devaluing everything really and spoiling the joy of finding something great imo.

    Thankfully it's optional, but sadly TVHM is a little too easy. I hope there'll be UVHM again (not sure about that though), and/or I wish there was an alternative non-Mayhem modifier that did just that (like making enemies much stronger and increasing loot drop rate reasonably - less than Mayhem 1).

    Time will tell I guess.

    Edited by DrStrangelove at 23:37:23 17-10-2019
  • gamecat 17 Oct 2019 23:43:51 982 posts
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    I don't understand the mayhem mods that make the game *easier*, +75% elemental, +50% weapon damage, you get one of those and you can kill a 'boss' in < 10 seconds on TVHM M3.
  • DrStrangelove 17 Oct 2019 23:51:48 15,207 posts
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    Yeah I had that too. Sometimes it makes it a walk in the park, another time it's mindlessly punishing. And then you get one modifier that gives +35% on weapon type A and -35% on B, and the other one gives -35% on A and +35% on B. It's just a mess.

    They're doing all those buffs and nerfs via hotfixes, but in Mayhem it means fuck all. They're spending so much time on balancing yet Mayhem is just... well, chaos. Seems so contradictory to me.
  • Wavey 18 Oct 2019 10:09:16 1,019 posts
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    I find it odd there balancing the game like its an always online fps like Destiny when I presume the majority of people play solo / effectively offline. They want to help the longevity of the game but i'd say your consumer base is invested enough they will buy your dlc anyway. Let things be overpowered if you want.
  • themanfromdelmonte 18 Oct 2019 17:04:18 746 posts
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    I think it's more a case of them wanting to keep build diversity as broad as possible. Especially with the generosity of the loot drops, it's still easy to be OP. But some of the Fl4k and Moze builds have been ridiculous.
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 18 Oct 2019 17:07:30 8,991 posts
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    I'm hoping this balance tweaking is just a short-term thing. It doesn't really belong in a singleplayer/co-op game. Appreciate there may have been a couple of completely broken builds that needed fixing, but they really do need to let things settle now. A lot of the fun in these games at end-game has always been in finding ways to get ridiculous optimisation in gear/builds.

    If Gearbox want to shake up balance later, then I'd rather they add more weapons etc rather than retuning existing ones.
  • crashVoodoo 18 Oct 2019 18:43:22 6,680 posts
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    2 more levels and I'll finally have my first lvl 50 char.

    Gonna jump straight into mainlining a second char. What's recommended, moze, Amara or the irish fella?

    Edited by crashVoodoo at 18:49:31 18-10-2019
  • Deleted user 18 October 2019 23:03:52
    Fucking hell, one tiny sliver away from getting the thingummy 9000 boss killed and couldn’t complete a fight for my life. Start again, right from the beginning.

    I fucking DESPISE boss fights.
  • gamecat 18 Oct 2019 23:56:00 982 posts
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    @crashVoodoo Amara is fun, there's a few viable builds including a melee one if that's your bag, I'm using the imortal hellcat version that's super tanky though. Moze is alright but her action skill gets increasingly useles as you near level cap, so she's pretty vanilla. The Irish guy I haven't played because of the awful accent.
  • DrStrangelove 19 Oct 2019 04:25:00 15,207 posts
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    @Rogueywon

    I can see both sides of this. Yeah it can be fun to exploit the game, but things can be just broken. Some things just need nerfing because they break the game.

    But even if it's not really broken, there was the issue that some skills were extremely powerful while others were just garbage. That's not such an issue in normal mode, but the higher you go up to the endgame, the narrower your choices become for a viable build unless you just want to punish yourself. Maya is a good example of this, for a really good build your choices were very limited. The unofficial community patch actually tried to change that if I'm not mistaken, so basically fans tried to balance what Gearbox didn't.

    And then UVHM came, and then the OP levels. They were designed in such a way that all the OP stuff became normal and everything else became trash. So you'd always farm the same legendaries and use mostly the same builds just to avoid having a terrible time.

    If they can balance it right away so that experimenting with different builds becomes more viable, then I'm for it. I'd love to go with different useful builds than always picking Reaper, Ruin and Converge.

    As for short-term, I wouldn't bet on that. Gearbox buffed Cloud Kill 3 years after release.
  • DrStrangelove 19 Oct 2019 04:43:27 15,207 posts
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    crashVoodoo wrote:
    2 more levels and I'll finally have my first lvl 50 char.

    Gonna jump straight into mainlining a second char. What's recommended, moze, Amara or the irish fella?
    I've only really played one build each with Amara and Moze so far, so I can only comment on that.

    Amara: in general a pretty aggressive character, most of her skills are about MOAR DAMAGE. I played Brawl which is of course the most aggressive of all as it's a close combat/melee build. It felt like Doom 2016, jumping over enemies while shotgunning their head into their pelvis and punching them so hard they explode. I find that hugely satisfying but it's probably not for everyone.

    Moze I played with Bottomless Mags (unlimited ammo). People say the mech becomes useless in the endgame but I actually didn't bother with it in the first place. I don't like it a lot and just used it to cop out when things got too hairy. I often jumped into it just to run away, heh.

    But Bottomless Mags is mostly about on-foot combat anyway. Once I reached the capstone skill and had truly unlimited ammo, I was having a really good time. Basically I was using fast-firing Dahl snipers as assault rifles on roids. Can't go wrong with Moze if you just want to shoot the shit out of everything like some Texan militia maniac.

    Zane, have only started him, but he seems to be a more complicated character who favours hybrid builds. Certainly more complex in that you have to consider skill and gear interactions a lot. Can't make a lot of sense of him yet, I've actually started watching build/guide videos to get a better idea of what to do with him (never did with Moze and Amara). He can get pretty ridiculous apparently but he doesn't seem to be as straightforward as Moze and Amara.

    Edited by DrStrangelove at 04:55:06 19-10-2019
  • crashVoodoo 19 Oct 2019 11:02:37 6,680 posts
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    Thanks Dr, I've spent 15 minutes starting a new game with all three to trial them. Zane is a different beast with his 2 skills.

    One thing I have noticed is my playstyle. On first go I was cautious and evasive, now I'm very aggressive and it's paying off...
  • dsmx 19 Oct 2019 11:17:59 8,588 posts
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    Zane is a very adaptable character I've found, the shield is especially useful against the pain in the the ass badass rocket launcher enemies since your immune to the rockets when your behind it.

    His hologram is also very useful at either distracting enemies or providing a quick way to change position and get to cover since you can swap with them.

    I've not even bothered with his drone and I found the hologram and the shield far to useful to give up.

    I've very rarely missed using grenades since you can get a skill that pops them out when your hologram appears and disappears and a chance to be thrown the first bullet you fire after every reload.

    Edited by dsmx at 11:19:00 19-10-2019
  • Rogueywon Most Generous Forumite, 2016 19 Oct 2019 11:49:50 8,991 posts
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    Zane's my first - and so far only - level 50. He's decent, but as others have said, a bit technical. His big damage builds involve going into all three of his skill trees, albeit only shallowly. Do that and you can rack up some pretty huge damage and crit bonuses, though worth noting that these require him to keep moving as quickly as possible to maximise his damage, so it's not a character to play if you like to hunker down.

    As for skills, I tend to go with the drone and the shield. The drone has a pretty long duration when summoned and the shield has a nice fast cooldown time (and is just plain useful). My build relies on having two action skills up as much as possible to maximise his damage bonuses.
  • dsmx 19 Oct 2019 13:37:20 8,588 posts
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    I went down the hologram tree right to the bottom, my hologram does a lot of nice damage and crits with Pa's gun.
  • crashVoodoo 19 Oct 2019 15:56:46 6,680 posts
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    Really enjoying using Zane. Really liking the 2 skills trait so far and like dsmx said, I'm not missing the grenades.

    I currently have clone and drone equipped, drone on the grenade button because it's early days and there are now rocket enemies just yet but I can see a switch to the shield.
  • DrStrangelove 19 Oct 2019 16:46:28 15,207 posts
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    I've been playing shield+drone so far but I watched someone describe a clonedrone build which is just grenades raining on enemies everywhere, I think I'll give that a try. My greatest difficulty so far is keeping track of two abilities (I sometimes have trouble keeping track of one).

    Edited by DrStrangelove at 16:47:33 19-10-2019
  • dsmx 19 Oct 2019 17:38:52 8,588 posts
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    The main problems with the shield are the bullet amp buff making some guns totally unusable because the particle effects literally fill the screen. Makes you giggle the first few times but after that it is just a pain in the arse.

    The other is the baddass rocket launcher enemies rockets impacting the shield. The particle effects also block your view making single shot weapons all but impossible to hit them with without a bit of guesswork.

    Which can be somewhat counteracted with your hologram, he isn't impacted by the particle effects and also gets the bullet amp through the shield.

    But as I said Zane is really adaptable, not the best for outright damage but you are really hard to kill.

    Also Zanes clone and shield regen really fast so you just spam them for the most part. If you need outright DPS you drop both at once but in general you use one then when it runs out you use the other

    Edited by dsmx at 17:40:54 19-10-2019
  • KRadiation 19 Oct 2019 19:58:10 1,524 posts
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    I tend to just throw the clone down with a rocket launcher and then the shield around him to amp up the damage. And then run off and hide or snipe.

    Edited by KRadiation at 19:58:18 19-10-2019
  • dsmx 19 Oct 2019 20:16:56 8,588 posts
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    Rocket launchers aren't that damaging in this, for some reason the clone really likes spamming Pa's Rifle, way more than any other weapon I've tried with him so far.
  • DrStrangelove 20 Oct 2019 03:03:19 15,207 posts
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    I just found the aptly named "It's Poop!" weapon skin. Best. Thing. Ever!
  • Daeltaja 20 Oct 2019 12:12:02 1,806 posts
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    Just left Pandora and honestly it's a welcome change. I definitely enjoyed the bits I did there but felt too close to previous games. Game has really opened up now and really enjoying it. Can see myself trying to 100% it.
  • crashVoodoo 20 Oct 2019 14:57:24 6,680 posts
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    I think I'm enjoying the fact that EGS has no cheevos
  • DrStrangelove 24 Oct 2019 13:43:30 15,207 posts
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    Halloween event starting today apparently

    edit: and it's live until 05/12, so plenty of time. There are unique items (including cosmetic) that can only be found during this event.

    Edited by DrStrangelove at 13:50:34 24-10-2019
  • gamecat 24 Oct 2019 16:43:44 982 posts
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    Patch/ update live anytime before 11pm UK today.

    Patch notes are mostly bug fixes, they let console players have Mayhem TVHM same time as the PC, and adjusted the logo intro to not be the loudest thing in the universe, which is nice. More interesting is the roadmap though, worth a read.

    https://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/t/borderlands-3-patch-and-hotfix-10-24-notes-a-roadmap/3987685

    Edited by gamecat at 16:47:57 24-10-2019
  • minky-kong 24 Oct 2019 17:33:47 14,595 posts
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    gamecat wrote:
    adjusted the logo intro to not be the loudest thing in the universe, which is nice.
    Thank fuck!
  • DrStrangelove 24 Oct 2019 17:50:41 15,207 posts
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    Some very interesting stuff there, looking forward to it. I love getting a target dummy again to test your stuff, that was really useful in BL2.

    What I don't get about the skippable cinematics thing is that game events are triggered within the cutscene. Mass Effect did that too, you could install a mod that lets you skip them but then the game might break e.g. because someone died in the cutscene but if you skipped it they were still alive. Why do it that way in the first place? If what happens in the cutscene is pre-defined anyway, why not simply have a new game state after the cutscene?
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